Human species 'may split in two'

[apothecary]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm

Humanity may split into two sub-species in 100,000 years' time as predicted by HG Wells, an expert has said.

Evolutionary theorist Oliver Curry of the London School of Economics expects a genetic upper class and a dim-witted underclass to emerge.

The human race would peak in the year 3000, he said - before a decline due to dependence on technology.

People would become choosier about their sexual partners, causing humanity to divide into sub-species, he added.

The descendants of the genetic upper class would be tall, slim, healthy, attractive, intelligent, and creative and a far cry from the "underclass" humans who would have evolved into dim-witted, ugly, squat goblin-like creatures.

Race 'ironed out'

But in the nearer future, humans will evolve in 1,000 years into giants between 6ft and 7ft tall, he predicts, while life-spans will have extended to 120 years, Dr Curry claims.

Physical appearance, driven by indicators of health, youth and fertility, will improve, he says, while men will exhibit symmetrical facial features, look athletic, and have squarer jaws, deeper voices and bigger penises.

Women, on the other hand, will develop lighter, smooth, hairless skin, large clear eyes, pert breasts, glossy hair, and even features, he adds. Racial differences will be ironed out by interbreeding, producing a uniform race of coffee-coloured people.

However, Dr Curry warns, in 10,000 years time humans may have paid a genetic price for relying on technology.

Spoiled by gadgets designed to meet their every need, they could come to resemble domesticated animals.

Receding chins

Social skills, such as communicating and interacting with others, could be lost, along with emotions such as love, sympathy, trust and respect. People would become less able to care for others, or perform in teams.

Physically, they would start to appear more juvenile. Chins would recede, as a result of having to chew less on processed food.

There could also be health problems caused by reliance on medicine, resulting in weak immune systems. Preventing deaths would also help to preserve the genetic defects that cause cancer.

Further into the future, sexual selection - being choosy about one's partner - was likely to create more and more genetic inequality, said Dr Curry.

The logical outcome would be two sub-species, "gracile" and "robust" humans similar to the Eloi and Morlocks foretold by HG Wells in his 1895 novel The Time Machine.

"While science and technology have the potential to create an ideal habitat for humanity over the next millennium, there is a possibility of a monumental genetic hangover over the subsequent millennia due to an over-reliance on technology reducing our natural capacity to resist disease, or our evolved ability to get along with each other, said Dr Curry.

He carried out the report for men's satellite TV channel Bravo.

[Hagakure]

my what hard hitting science that bravo television station comission. :D

there have always been genetic differences between upper and lower classes. if you are a hot peasant women chances are you may be snatched away by some baron to make babies for him.

pretty much the same today. good genes will gravitate towards resources.

but i doubt it will ever reach a point of two seperate species.

and dont forget the old red herring of cosmetic surgery. in future people may look better and better but underlying genes are the same.

but this got to me the most

"Chins would recede, as a result of having to chew less on processed food."

what about our future means we have to chew processed food?

mmmmmmmmmm soylent green

the future of food, imho, will be genetically maximised food to grow with as little resources as possible to provide us with as perfect a combination of nutrients as possible and to be as tasty as hell. those are the drivers for what people want and those are the drivers that have pushed the genetics of our agricultural crops for 3000 years now. they are going to keep heading in that direction.

processing is expensive. its only used to make money off of shit you couldnt sell otherwise.

much better to have plants grow foods as close to the end prodcut as possible.

also, artificial intelligence will almost definately arrive before the year 3000

and thats going to change everything

still, i like articles like this eh. always a bit of fun.

[apothecary]

My personal is opinion is '10,000 years? Let's see if we can make it 1000 at this rate...' ..

I admit it, the true reason I pasted this article is because it says penis.

[coin]

Exactly...how will those 'undesirable' traits be bred out while women are waxing & wearing blush from age 14, etc, men hide their penis preceding the imbibement of wine, and so on

I admit it, the true reason I pasted this article is because it says penis.

That's the only reason I read it .. stands out like a sore thumb

[sobriquet]

I admit it, the true reason I pasted this article is because it says penis.

A very penetrative insight into your reasoning.

[alkatrope]

Interesting read.

I doubt there will ever be a strong enough barrier preventing gene flow to the point of (sympatric?) speciation, but I suppose a subspecies may be possible..

[occidentalis]

There are beautiful people, and there are ugly people

but the majority of people are average. This has probably been the case for all of human history, and I can't see why it would change now. For a number of reasons other than what people have already brought up:

1. definitions of beauty are always changing. In western society the women considered beautiful a few hundred years ago iwould probably be considered unattractively overweight today.

2. humans consider more than simply physical appearance when choosing a mate.

3. with increasing education, affluence, and technology, birth rates tend to be reduced and age at reproduction tends to increase. Therefore this sort of thing will occur more slowly and if it hasn't yet, it probably won't in the future.

4. as apo reminded us, this is all assuming that our civilisation actually exists in 1000 years which is a really big and unsafe assumption.

[MORG]

It's crap like this that contributes to public distrust of science and scientists. A dude with "Dr" in front of his name starts making wild and unsubstantiated postulations, the press pick it up, make it sound like it's a sure thing and people get polarised. There are so many ifs, buts, maybes etc. that this man's predictions are contingent upon that they make his own theories no more valid than Leonard Nimoy's.

By the way, I'm not claiming any of you here were taking this more seriously than you should. I just cringe when I think about this stuff being disseminated to the general public.

[Hagakure]

oh yeah, its bullshit science aimed at getting ratings.

but it gets people thinking. and the timeframe is distant enough to not really affect people's lives.

im more worried about bullshit science that affects people now like though selling high priced herbal extracts that do squat.

crazy, far out, sci fi stuff like this at least sparks some thought in people. i wouldnt say that it increase public distrust.

[ballzac]

The only thing that is likely to split Homo sapiens into two seperate species, is the same thing that has caused branching off in the past: physical isolation. It just simply won't happen otherwise. There will always be people attracted to people who are from a different class, and this will be enough over thousands of years, to keep the one species, and probably what we today would call one race.

As space travel and exploration becomes more prevalent, we might see different species developing. This would assume that we did not have a means of travelling long distances in short space of time. The various environments that colonies live in all over the galaxy/universe would cause differences to develop. It could end up being like Star Trek, with beings who are humanoid, but not of the same species, and eventually of a different genus.

[Hagakure]

yeah, i agree, without seperation it wont happen.

was just thinking about caste system in india. anyone know genetic consequences of that?

[transDiMenTional]

Physical appearance, driven by indicators of health, youth and fertility, will improve, he says, while men will exhibit symmetrical facial features, look athletic, and have squarer jaws, deeper voices and bigger penises.

Women, on the other hand, will develop lighter, smooth, hairless skin, large clear eyes, pert breasts, glossy hair, and even features, he adds. Racial differences will be ironed out by interbreeding, producing a uniform race of coffee-coloured people.

I knew there was hope for us yet! :D

[wandjina]

12 000 CE....

[foolsbreath]

The only thing that is likely to split Homo sapiens into two seperate species, is the same thing that has caused branching off in the past: physical isolation. It just simply won't happen otherwise. There will always be people attracted to people who are from a different class, and this will be enough over thousands of years, to keep the one species, and probably what we today would call one race

Oh I don't know? I've worked with some f*#ked up people, and they've managed to mate with some f#*ked up people (and they would not have attracted someone not so fucked up, I guarantee it, I wouldn't have gone there with a 10,000 foot pole) And then I have met their children and, well I don't have to explain do I?

My thought was that people like this should be removed from the gene pool because I could see the long term ramifications of letting these genes continue to spread. I'm not being mean, just making an observation, the same one the author of this article did, if you can't see it, you havn't been to the wrong part of town after dark.

[ballzac]

My thought was that people like this should be removed from the gene pool because I could see the long term ramifications of letting these genes continue to spread.

Yeah, it'll be great. We can have our own little Nazi Germany.

[foolsbreath]

Yeah, it'll be great. We can have our own little Nazi Germany.

I didn't say through genocide Simply stopping them reproducing would do the job, but since these people seem to love procreating it would be hard to do so, But hey if you want to be surrounded with family's full of but ugly half wits, whores and drug adicts good on ya, let your kids hang out with them. I'll be joining the elitest, intelligent good looking stream

[MORG]

Oooooh, did someone say eugenics?

Ugly indeed.

I daresay that man you've quoted in your sig would be horrified to find his name under sentiments like that.

Edited October 19, 2006 by MORG

[apothecary]

"I'm not condoning killing off the dumb ones...let's just remove the safety labels from things and let the problem solve itself"

JUST KIDDING

[foolsbreath]

Oooooh, did someone say eugenics?

Ugly indeed.

I daresay that man you've quoted in your sig would be horrified to find his name under sentiments like that.

LOL

I'm sure he would, and I really don't prescribe to those sentiments, just trying to get people thinking, as averyone is so ready to discount those conclusions

But That "family" full of bad ugly people is a true family, I worked with the brightest member of the family. He was on a dissabled pension at the age of 17 for nervous disorders (shared by his whole family) and I believe brought on by the sheer innability to understand the simplest mechanics of this world, he was also working and getting paid quite handsomely under the table. as were other members of his family

To get involved in a intellectual or political debate with them was quite something, SCARY. His perspective and values were based on riding the system, doing as little as possible to survive. He was school educated, but, I can't explain it, they hate the world for being more "able" for no better term.

I did enjoy these debates, as it gave me an insight into a world I would never otherwise experience, but I was always astounded by the conviction he had. No matter how good an argument I put forward I could not change the views he held!! Hatred for governmnet of any sort, dislike for people who had a educated job etc etc.

At work he could not follow the simplest instructions. like when hanging jiprock, you'd tell him to put a blob of glue on the beams, you'd come back and he would have glued the upper side of the beams in the roof, or ask him to cut a series of sheets of different length, write it down for him, come back 20 minutes later to find them cut all the wrong length, or cut vertically instead of horizontally or he had lost the piece of paper and hadn't done anything at all, or had gone to the shops for a pack of smokes and dissapeared for 2 hours cause he got lost, or lost his wallet.

He would become quite upset when he couldn't get these things right, to the point of becoming violent, His mother would have to go to hospital after little arguments with his sister for stress related reasons.

For his 18th birthday his sister, a prostitute, and a collegue gave him a "session", yes his sister! Whats more, he paid for it!

Can you see I'm not talking about a physical or social barrier of seperation, but a mental barrier. I have some very good friends of different social classes, I have friends with severe mental problems (schizophernia, ADHD etc), this is not the seperation I am talking about. They will still be able to cross barriers because they are still smart, good looking, and able to function to some degree in the world ( with help from meds where needed)

I can see exactly what this paper is refering to. This family were all short wide and kinda troll like in apperance, large forheads, long thickset arms etc. and suprise suprise, what friends they had were of a similar constitution. He only had this job because the boss felt kind a sorry and responsible for him. He would cost us time and money on every job (oh and he did not do any drugs of any sort including prescribed pharms).

I'm not being mean, merely stating true observations. I do believe that there may well be a seperation of the human race based on these observations. I would not have believed it if I had not met these people. Just by looking at them it is not obvious. You really have to interact to understand there are differences.

But I could be completely wrong?

[ballzac]

It doesn't take much to keep the gene pool mixed. Even the occaisional rape will prevent a seperate species branching off.

[oxydiser]

I know a family that frequent the pharmacy which is sort of similar to the one that you mention foolsbreath. The mother and father suffer from slight mental problems but their three children are all heavily afflicted with high level autism and epilepsy and are heavily medicated. I think to myself 'why didn't they stop after the first' - it could have considerably reduced the suffering experienced by that family.

But people don't think like that. The drive to generate more progeny isn't even derived from some thought related process. If you start to look at your body as a vehicle for the replication of your own selfish DNA, it can change your whole view point.

I'm all for the concept of eugenics - but not in the egocentric, racist, country-specific notion as used by the Nazis. Rather a global eugenics as hinted at by the article posted by apoth. A similar process is performed to ensure that our cows produce 50L of milk per day, our sheep produce the finest softest wool etc etc. Sadly, the continued differentiation of the human race as some sort of uber-animal and those pesky 'morals' that hold us back will ensure that this never happens.

But I doubt if eugenics could ever work in practice, we can thank the good ol' random recombination of DNA for that. Case in point: Ridiculously good looking people are born from ugly people, and vice versa.

For his 18th birthday his sister, a prostitute, and a collegue gave him a "session", yes his sister! Whats more, he paid for it!

Woah... twisted

[MORG]

Wow, I must say I'm surprised to find such right-wing extreme viewpoints in a community of such liberal leaning as this.

I believe reproduction is a fundamental right and sterility should not be enforced on anyone (because let's face it, any successful eugenics program will have to incorporate mandatory sterilisation).

Perhaps a more realistic and better thought out welfare system may dissuade these cretins you speak of popping out mouths to keep the Centrelink payments rolling in.

I don't worry about families of retards mating. They don't affect me, and they certainly don't affect the future course of human evolution. If the shit hits the fan and we're plunged into a dark nuclear winter where we are forced into some primeval state of animality where we must rely solely on our wits and biological fitness to survive the intense selection pressure put upon us... well, those less independant will likely die out.

[botanika]

You mean Bogans are still not considered a seperate species?

[Pala]

Haha.

There was once a speaker at uni talking to us about X vs Y. That is to say, the antagonistic relationship between the X and Y chromosomes. The speaker predicted that in the far future the X chromosome would win the "battle of the sexes". For some reason, I still manage to sleep at night.