Berserker Mushrooms?

[DocAzz]

I was talking to a friend over the weekend about mushrooms, and he mentioned that his place in the blue mountains has 'berserker mushrooms' growing everywhere.

All he knew is that these are what the berserker vikings would take to work themselves into a frenzy, and that it would be a pretty bad idea for anyone else to try one.

Does anyone know the mushrooms I'm talking about? What are they, and whats in them?

Should I try to get some pics?

[ramon]

I was talking to a friend over the weekend about mushrooms, and he mentioned that his place in the blue mountains has 'berserker mushrooms' growing everywhere.

All he knew is that these are what the berserker vikings would take to work themselves into a frenzy, and that it would be a pretty bad idea for anyone else to try one.

Does anyone know the mushrooms I'm talking about? What are they, and whats in them?

Should I try to get some pics?

They are most likely the Fly Agaric- Amanita muscaria

[alkatrope]

They are most likely the Fly Agaric- Amanita muscaria

Yeah Amanita muscaria is the best bet. Red cap with white spots.

I don't think there is considerable evidence to back up the beserker myths, though..

[Hagakure]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

"The notion that Nordic Vikings used the fly agaric mushroom to produce their berserker rages was first suggested by the Swedish professor Samual Ödman in 1784. Ödman based his theory on reports about the use of fly-agaric among Siberian shamans. The notion has become widespread since the 19th century, but no contemporary sources mention this use or anything similar in their description of berserkers. Today, it is generally considered untrue or at best speculation that cannot be proven.

A UK television programme in 2004 tested the possible use of fly agaric and alcohol by training a healthy volunteer in the use of Viking weapons, then evaluating his performance under the influence of fly agaric or alcohol compared to no influence. It was shown that use of fly agaric or alcohol severely reduced his fighting ability, and the tentative conclusion drawn was that berserk state was achieved psychologically; otherwise, berserkers would have been too easy to kill. Of course, this does not take into account the mindset that the berserker likely would have attempted to place himself in."

LMAO

training someone in viking weaponry then drugging em up and making em fight. best science ever.

[DocAzz]

LMAO

training someone in viking weaponry then drugging em up and making em fight. best science ever.

I'm thankful the Vikings never found Bundaberg Rum!!

[Hagakure]

hahahahaha nice one

and kinda true

rum seems to provoke crazy activity rom people more than other alcohols like vodka or whiskey. anecdotal evidence. someone on here mentioned why i rekon - anyone recall?

some impurities or whatever?

but yeah, people go crazy on rum more than other alcohols

[apothecary]

Hmmm people of today are hardly as big as they were back then.

Using Amanita as an enraging agent is possible I guess if combined with a stimulant of some sort...possibly a whole mixture of plants could be used.

But I reckon the most likely scenario is that firstly the Norse were simply bigger back then than the competition(Scythian descent?) and secondly they were fighting fiercly out of desperation (considering the Norse homelands could only provide something like 20% of required agriculture/livestock to feed everyone...).

[_e_]

rum seems to provoke crazy activity rom people more than other alcohols like vodka or whiskey. anecdotal evidence. someone on here mentioned why i rekon - anyone recall?

some impurities or whatever?

but yeah, people go crazy on rum more than other alcohols

I believe this is due to the high sugar content. I remember hearing doctor Karl on JJJ tlk about this issue, and it seems that the high levels of raw sugar employed in rum, give a huge energy kick as well as the drunkness...

Hmmm people of today are hardly as big as they were back then.

Using Amanita as an enraging agent is possible I guess if combined with a stimulant of some sort...possibly a whole mixture of plants could be used.

But I reckon the most likely scenario is that firstly the Norse were simply bigger back then than the competition(Scythian descent?) and secondly they were fighting fiercly out of desperation (considering the Norse homelands could only provide something like 20% of required agriculture/livestock to feed everyone...).

Having had the opportunity to do a little venturing into scandanavian folklore and medicine, i would think it totally feasible that there were some if not many admixtures used in the preperation of amanita, and other psychoactive meads.

plants such as licorice root and rhodiola rosea come to mind as 'stimulants' the nords would have used.

There are many many more, but i think these would have to be the most note-worthy, given they are both quite potent stimulants when used in the right way, and both would have been quite readily accessible.

However i dont see it as totally neccessary that if there WERE some 'berserker mushrooms' that they were amanita muscaria.

The diversity and density of the mushroom life over here totally surpass anything ive ever seen.

And as for the size of the vikings... well u can see today in some of the lads over here (who well and truly dwarf dulf lundgren) that they were a 'giant breed'.

The fact that they worked so extensively with stone, makes for a breed of people who are by nature 'rock hard'.

I often found it difficult to understand how they survived and in fact thrived, given the very cold and harsh winter climate... But it seems back in those days the climate here was much more alike that of present day southern france!

[spiders]

'Scythian descent'

Actually the nordic people were germanic and moved into norway, denmark and sweden fairly recently. Originally it was believed that the scythians were fair, but they now think that the scythian bodies they found had black asiatic hair that had turned blonde-white through decomposition. Archaeological sites in southern britain (around kent) of anglo/saxon/briton-post-roman-conquest in the 400-500 or there abouts found that they often took slaves of nordic descent.

They can actually test a person's teeth enamel which forms in early life to determine where they were born geographically. It appears that all the slaves in the anglo/saxon village were Swedish.

So perhaps when the northern english and scotsman prayed to god in fear of the fury of the norsemen, they werent realising that nearly a thousand years earlier their ancestors (well the britons atleast, dont know about the picts) were raiding the norsemen's countries for slaves...

As for the height thing, well thats pretty striking now days, but did you know that the highest increase in average height in the last 100 years was in the Neatherlands and United States...???

Amanita was used by shamans - there is no evidence it was ever used by vikings. They would paint the helm of awe between their eyes and that was enough to strike fear in the hearts of their foes,

[_e_]

when u tlk about the shamans, your tlking about the suomi people right?

I havent had an opportunity to suss out the suomi connection.

It seems they have been persecuted over here much the same as the aboriginals in australasia.

They tend to dwell in the upper northern tip of sweden, and whilst their territory and game have greatly decreased, are still living an inherently nomadic lifestyle.

I would love to learn about suomi modalities for healing, and i get the feeling mush of the 'tomte' folklore, and common heath medicinals, would have stemmed mostly from the suomi culture.

I believe they are very similair to the hehehe EDIT-siberians in their approach to the amanita, and overall culture...

Do u k now about any interactions between the Norse and the suomi BM?

Edited October 16, 2006 by ({E})

[Hagakure]

E - im guessing bluemeanie was reffering to siberians

[Tinkal]

Well there was a ancient Greek/Hellenic myth about the strenght of the Centaurs.

According to the myth, after consuming amanita muscaria, the could shoot an arrow and pass through a humans chest, killing him instantly.

Also another myth saying about the Maenads, that after consuming a mushroom they ripped human babys and animals killing them or they could travel a great distant with ease.

I can say that at least in small doses A. muscaria every time gives me this feeling (the feeling of superhuman power and that I can go anywhere I want without getting tired)

Also It's a Great sex enhancer. A machine-gun fucker

But this is a thing a friend of mine experienced.

[apothecary]

I can say that at least in small doses A. muscaria every time gives me this feeling (the feeling of superhuman power and that I can go anywhere I want without getting tired)

Also It's a Great sex enhancer. A machine-gun fucker <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

But this is a thing a friend of mine experienced.

I will put my own weight behind this assertation. All my experience with scopoalmine style molecules in mild dosage has had this effect.

[DocAzz]

Perhaps I should track down some of these mushrooms and get some photos for you guys to ID.

Before I ask any more questions about them, I should ask: What is the legality of a.muscaria?

[Hagakure]

you will id em no probs but yeah, probably best to double check.

one thing, if you intend to dry em do some reading

i tried to dry some with just a fan on em but it took too long.

meanwhile little maggots and whatever were growing im them

yum yum

so yeah, dry em with some heat i would suggest.

[apothecary]

one thing, if you intend to dry em do some reading

yum yum

so yeah, dry em with some heat i would suggest.

And you DO intend to, fresh ones are quite toxic.

Yum yum <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_newimprovedwinkonclear.gif

You can make jerky out of them. UTSE <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

[DocAzz]

if they're that 'yum yum' then I would assume that other people would be interested in getting their hands on some?

[alkatrope]

I think 'yum yum' is a bit of an overstatement

[spiders]

There was a mushroom used by tribes in Papua New Guinea to let groups of young people lose their inhibititions and then partipate in large inter-tribal orgies. Apparently Wasson wasnt impressed because it looked like they were using the mushrooms for recreational purposes rather than 'mystic chakra vibing'...

And yeah sorry i was talking about the siberian shaman rather than the Laps.

My friend from norway basically re-affirmed constantly that Norwegian people looked on the Laps like 'Australians look at those ar-bos' - I was surprised often by the scandos at uni who would be hugely liberal in their drinking and sex lives (ah, good times... good times...) yet get them on to politics and they were often quite conservative - particularly about racial issues and asylum seekers.

[DocAzz]

Here is a reply email from my mate, after I gave him a run-down on the thread:

There are heaps of pine trees near my parent's house

that's where I've seen them. I've also seen them in

the pine forests near Oberon by the shit load (ie.

lining the ground like carpet!)find out when they are

in season and we'll go out there and (azz-edit)"have a look"!

My question now is:

Anyone up for a road trip when the season suggests?

[alkatrope]

Sounding more and more like Amanita muscaria.

They grow almost everywhere you find pine.

Season is just before Psilocybe season I find, around May.

[Fenris]

Does anyone know if they can be found in Western Australia?

There are plenty of pines around curtin uni and plenty at gnangara pine plantation however I have never seen an A muscaria.

[occidentalis]

A friend from Denmark has seen them down there years ago, and my (somewhat crazy) auntie from Northcliffe reckons the 'fairytale mushrooms with red and white spots' grow in some pines near there. Head south .

[Moses]

A UK television programme in 2004 tested the possible use of fly agaric and alcohol by training a healthy volunteer in the use of Viking weapons, then evaluating his performance under the influence of fly agaric or alcohol compared to no influence. It was shown that use of fly agaric or alcohol severely reduced his fighting ability, and the tentative conclusion drawn was that berserk state was achieved psychologically; otherwise, berserkers would have been too easy to kill. Of course, this does not take into account the mindset that the berserker likely would have attempted to place himself in."

waste of time, would have been more useful to find someone that plays football(todays tribal warfare) and see if they were more aggressive.

the vikings had a warrior culture that took pride in fighting skills from early age,not something that can be taught for a t.v special.

also the participant would have had subconsous expectations/fears of taking a hallucinogen being warned of the side effects,the viking would have thought he was taking a magical supplement/gift from the gods that would have given him power

also why do the mushrooms have to induce the ragerather than just compliment the mindset.

the overwhelming peaceful feeling of power and invincibility(bad word cant think of better description) that mushrooms provide would make an ideal platform to build the frenzy from, but i wouldnt think that the shroom actually caused the rage.

i find it exhilarating to train while using mushrooms(where legal ) and there is quite a bit of anectodal evidence that most martial cultures had strength elixirs that were only known to a few and used in times of great need

ninja for example were thought to use stimulants to heighten their perception but knowledge like this is not released for want of glorifying drugs to todays honourless society

I'm thankful the Vikings never found Bundaberg Rum!!

we use to call it 'suicide soup' cos the nicest drunk would take on the biggest meanest mutha in the bar when they got it in em,get em drunk on anything else and butter wouldnt melt in their mouth.

[Pala]

training someone in viking weaponry then drugging em up and making em fight. best science ever.

You can just picture it: A group of scientists in white lab coats sitting around a table, pens and paper in front of them, and one of them goes, "Now wouldn't it be cool if..."