-bijanto-
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Posts posted by -bijanto-
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[edit] Double post, sorry.
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Yes, I mean the transparent awning in your pic, I'm just curious if thats the only opening where the afternoon sunlight can get through to your jiaogulan plants, or is there any other opening that's not shown in the pic? I was thinking, since you live in the Southern part of the globe, your afternoon sun might not be exactly vertical or above the head, but somewhat inclined?.
It seems that your plants are indoors?
I grow mine on the ground with some bamboo trellis, they are from seeds I ordered from Horizon Herbs. These seeds germinated easily outdoors in bright shade and warm tropical temperatures.
I got some cuttings from Darcy last year but they died soon after flowering.
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I'd go for soybeans. Theres nothing better than steamed, salted edamame (young soybean) and some ginger ale. In Australia, edamame is available for a very short season from November till Easter.
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Apothecary, I have 2 jiaogulan plants grown under direct sunlight but they dont grow as vigorous as yours. How old are your plants and do they receive direct sunlight? The roof seems like a polycarbonate or polyethylene sheet, is that it?
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Wandjina your posting intrigues me, so I get this book, a translated version of "De Nuttige Planten Van Indonesia" (Useful Plants of Indonesia) by K. Heyne, and here's what I've found:
"Ripe fruits taste a bit like wine (or a beverage made of grape), sometimes are eaten by kids, but mostly are eaten by cattle, so the seeds may be cleaned this way (through animals' digestion). The book says if the fruit is allowed to rot, the seed will look unattractive, but if the fruit is eaten by cattle and the seed is taken from their poo, the seed will become beautifully brown and thus considered more valuable. The colour can be made more attractive by soaking the seeds in sea water. Bigger seeds are less valuable than smaller seeds. Javanese people use some technique to get equally small seeds from the tree, ie blocking the flow of nutrition to the fruits. This is done by using a sharp knife. Secondary and Tertiary branches are sliced partially so that the nutrition supply to the fruits will be reduced but not completely cut off.
The harvested fruits will then be fermented for 48 hours and then punched or rubbed to remove the pulp, and then washed and dried. The preferred colours are brown-red with yellowish lines, and pale yellow. Darker-coloured-seeds and less-rounded-seeds are less preferred.
According to Altheer, these seeds are washed with hot water, and then polished with lijnolie (linseed Oil, flax seed oil), and tied with gold or silver for jewelleries."
Wandjina, I'd be glad if you could collect some seeds and post a picture here.
Yes the pulp looks starchy and oily, perhaps the species you see is the same as MORGs ?
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There's nothing to apologise for, Coin. This is only a discussion. Also thank's for your info. So how cheap is the price of a rudraksha malas in Australia / Melbourne?
The main reason I post this topic is because a few days ago I collected some Ganitri seeds and suddenly I remember apothecary's previous thread mentioning his interest on these seeds. So I thought why not start a discussion on its ethnobotany. It doesn't necessarily represent my opinion, merely a compilation from other sources (I mentioned the sources). My own bit is the italicized text under the fruit picture. If you read carefully, I did mentioned that "Hindus believe that rudraksha beads have healing properties and that they affect the human body..etc", but I'm not a Hindu.
[edit]I dont believe I can heal myself by wearing the beads, but I believe in the power of self-suggestion in healing, ie the mental act of inducing a strong belief within yourself. So its not only a matter of valid or not valid in this case, I just think that such tradition is unique and worth some appreciation. As for the healing effectiveness, I'd say it may work for some people because they believe it so much, which is, a significant part of healing.
Like apothecary, I like the appearance of the seeds but havent got chance to do a more detailed observation on the mukhis of my seeds, as they're still inside the fruits being fermented for cleaning.
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Hi apothecary, if youre interested in seeds just pm me with addy. Ive just collected some fruits (see the picture above) and now I'm fermenting them to make it easier to clean the seeds. Its gonna take a little while before the seeds are ready. I'm new to these seeds, anyone has any information on finishing method?
By the way, I think there is some bias re. the definition of ethnobotany in this forum. I think ethnobotany is not only dealing with plants that make you "high". Its dealing with the use of plants by people, whether as food, medicine, clothes, jewellery, ceremonial items, etc.
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Why is that funny?I see :-) You're funny bijanto ..Was just wondering why you posted this. Well at least they are beautifulNot only they're beautiful but also used a lot by Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists. Therefore this plant has a strong ethnobotanical uses. This is the forum of ethnobotany, right? I post whatever I think useful for other ppl's knowledge especially on ethnobotanical plants, not necessarily to earn money. Somebody who want some of these seeds will get them from me - free of charge
Then sell on ebay. Use imagination. Create artistic items. The value will add. The price will triple.I'm not sure how any money can be made by anyone from these seeds, because locally these are sold as necklaces / bracelets = malas (beads for meditation counting) are really very cheapWhat are the rich ethnobotanical uses? You mean naive folklore? ;)You mean naive or native? By "rich", I mean its part of the culture, including religion and healing art. When someone is dealing with ethnobotany its not important what he/she thinks. Bullshit or not its still part of their culture, just like when we are dealing with amazonian shamanic art of healing for example.
I don't know a lot about these seeds, but it is said that wearing the seeds is said to help alleviate high blood pressure and anxiety. I suppose you think that is bullshit? :-) I think some ppl may soak them in water overnight, then drink the water.Maybe yes and maybe no, I havent tried it. Just because we dont believe it doesnt mean it wont work for other people. Believing is half part of healing, if someone is under a medication (whether be it traditional or modern medication) and he/she has a strong belief in the healer and the medicine wholeheartedly, it will help healing faster, and such person is a lucky person.
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Hi Coin, actually I don't believe in the healing properties things... but I really like the beauty of the seeds and the rich ethnobotanical uses of this plant, and I also see some business opportunity where I could possibly get some poor local people here to produce necklaces from these seeds and export them to India, as Ive read that its getting harder to find these seeds there due to intensive industries.
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MORG, I dont know for sure, but from sources I have read, this species is native to India, Southern China Indonesia (Java, Sumatra, Borneo, Sulawesi, Papua), Philippines, Thailand etc. This is possible because long time ago some part of Indonesia was part of Asia and some other part (mainly the eastern) was part of Australia.
The first people who inhabited Indonesia also came from Yunnan (Southern China) where this plant is also found, and long time ago there were also people coming to Java and Bali from India to teach Hindu. So distribution via human's interaction is also possible.
Yes, I have access to these trees.
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Elaeocarpus is a genus of tropical and subtropical evergreen trees and shrubs. The approximately 350 species are distributed from Madagascar in the west through India, Southern China, Nepal, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, Thailand, Australia and Pacific Islands (Fiji, Solomon). Around 70% of the Ganitri trees are found in Indonesia, However, 15%-20% of the commercially grown plants are found growing in Nepal and Uttar Pradesh, India."
Elaeocarpus ganitrus is commonly called Rudraksha Tree in India, also called Ganitri Tree or Jenitri Tree in Indonesia. Its English name is Utrasum Bead Tree. This plant produces seeds known as Rudraksha, Ganitri or Jenitri. The seeds have been traditionally considered sacred in Hinduism as they are believed to be the tears of the shiva. In Sanskrit, rudra means shiva and aksh means eye. The dried seeds are used used as rosary beads and necklaces for meditation purposes.
The above picture shows the fruits of Elaeocarpus ganitrus. They were harvested from scattered trees in my town. In Indonesia, Ganitri tree flowers between August to September and fruits between September to November. Inside each fruit there is one seed that look like this:
Rudraksha beads have been used for thousands of years as an aid to self empowerment and the self enlightment. Hindus believe that rudraksha beads have healing properties and that they affect the human body when worn. Other sources also mention that Rudraksha beads are dielectrical as they store electrical energy and also possess electromagnetic properties changing with the variation in the number of faces (mukhis) on the surface of the beads. The number of mukhis on the surface of a rudraksha bead helps in determining its quality. According to the number of mukhis the rudrakasha bead ranges from single face to a several faced bead. Asian yogis and monks found that merely wearing the rudraksha beads gave them astonishingly tremendous amount of tranquility, concentration that helped them meditate for a long period of time with spectacular control over their mind.
Artificial rudraksha is often made from the wild berry seeds or nuts. But these berries cannot be made as real as the ones that are in the genuine ones and therefore easily be detected by an experienced eye. Here the mukhi means the deep lining running through the diameter of a Rudraksha bead. Looking at these deep linings-facets one can recognize real Rudraksha. There are some simple tests to distinguish the real rudraksha from fake one, though there is no fullproof method. A real bead does not float the surface of water or milk. It is also believed if in a string one suspends a real Rudraksha over a contaminated onion, it will begin to rotate. The best quality rudraksha is a little greasy, rounded, hard, with protuberant mouth, clear face, and with a natural hole. It should be worn on solar or lunar eclipse day after performing ritual worship.
The five-faced rudrakasha are very commonly found and therefore are mostly the real ones. The one-faced variety of rudrakasha is rare and and also very expensive. Rudraksha having 2,3,4,6,7, or 8 faces can also be found easily but its price is more than the five-faced Rudrakshas. Generally the Rudrakasha sold in the market are real ones as they are available in abundant in the nature but the Rudrakasha that are of rare kind are prepared artificially in order to satisfy the increasing demand of people. Price of a rudraksha bead does not affects its religious or spiritual importance or medicinal value. Thus there is no link or connection between the price of Rudraksha and its religious, spirituals and medicinal importance.
Compiled from various sources, mainly from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaeocarpus
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=37369
http://www.rajasthanpatrika.com/ASTROLOGY/...a/rudraksha.htm
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A man went to a barber shop to have his hair and his beard cut as always. He started to have a good conversation with the barber who attended him. They talked about so many things and various subjects.
Suddenly, they touched the subject of GOD (or THE CREATOR). The barber said : "Look man, I don't believe that THE CREATOR exists as you say so."
"Why do you say that?" Asked the client.
“Well, it's so easy, you just have to go out in the street to realize that THE CREATOR does not exist. Oh, tell me, if THE CREATOR existed, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If THE CREATOR existed, there would be no suffering nor pain. I can't think of a THE CREATOR who permits all of these things."
The client stopped for a moment thinking but he didn't want to respond so as to prevent an argument. The barber finished his job and the client went out of the shop. Just after he left the barber shop he saw a man in the street with a long hair and beard (it seems that it had been a long time since he had his cut and he looked so untidy). Then the client again entered the barber shop and he said to the barber:
" know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How come they don't exist?"-asked the barber.
"Well I am here and I am a barber."
"No!" - the client exclaimed. "They don't exist because if they did there would be no people with long hair and beard like that man who walks in the street."
"Ah, barbers do exist, what happens is that people do not come to me."
"Exactly!"- affirmed the client. "That's the point. THE CREATOR does exist, what happens is people don't go to THE CREATOR and do not look for IT, that's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."
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I just think that looking at the complexity of the world, being unable to explain it then just make the blanket statement "that proves god exists" is primative and simple minded.I may be primitive but that's how I prove the existence of the Creator for myself, ie the feeling of how limited and weak I am, compared to what the Creator is capable of.
The world isn't made just for those complex-minded people, thus the logic underlying the existence of the single Creator (or the one Being) must be very simple, yet can be made very complex, being able to cope with all stages of human's mind and civilization.
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Hi Lono, maybe your south african mate recognizes any of these names: klipdagga (Leonotis leonotis), red dagga/wildedagga (Leonotis leonurus).
Other names (not sure what species they refer to): knopdagga, knoppiesdagga, rooidagga.
Also dagga may be the dutch version of Hottentot's "dacha" or "dachab".
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Thanks P.D. , let me know if you need anything from here
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I'm interested, would you send to Indonesia?
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Whether the Creator can be called "God" or not depends on our concept of God. I would prefer to call this unique Being the "Creator". Since we are all created by the Creator's will and not by coincidence, there must be some purpose for our life on earth. Why doesn't It interfere with human's world, I think it's simply because It wants us, humans, to represent It on earth, to do good things on earth just like It would do, and make the world a better place for our children. That's why every person will be responsible for the result of his actions that are carried out through himself all through his lifetime (Hence the concept of Heaven and Hell follows). If we would live under FULL control of the Creator, then we would be better created as animals, or trees, or puppets. Living this life as humans is really an honor given to us by the Creator.
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Morning Onemind (you know where I am)
I like your words about this belief being a psychological tool to make someone feels good and firm inside our mind. I also believe that the freedom to choose their own idea, choosing what to believe or not believe is the right of every humanbeing and it must not be interfered by any government or any group of religion.
I was born in a country where almost all people since childhood are kinda pushed by their parents, government, teachers or community into believing in their parents' religion, without having a chance to really search and learn. Some of them never really understand about their religion for their whole life, yet they use it as their identity, take it with them everywhere with arrogance, or use it for their own profit. Instead of digesting what they read from the holly book and apply it wisely in accordance with the situation, they blindly ingest it word by word and claim that they know what their God wants.
I think I know what you believe now. I think you believe (or follow) your heart. I think you'll be fine, mate
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If i hear one more person tell me about gods existence after looking into a childs eyes i will eat my shoe.Hahaha I knew you would say something like that. I hate dogma, and anything that sounds like dogma...but I tend to think there must be something, some purpose of this life, a mistery...I mean why? Why does God create bad people and good people, why doesn't God interfere with injustice?
Onemind I was curious, do you ever believe in something, not God but anything...anything that makes you feel good when you are here on earth. In other words, what is life to you?
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So why my hatred? Mostly movies, especially that one movie about the vietnam war: those kids from american suburbia get sent to vietnam, all of them stupid dorks, one of them gets horny, kidnaps a civilian vietnamese girl, rapes and kills her, and at the end is dobbed in to american military authorities by one of his mates...I believe he didn't even get the chair...if it was up to me, I would have fried him slowly on the chair, over a week or so, not fast, that bastard...that story was based on reality...here's where my disbelief in god kicks in: any god who can watch that (he'd have to watch it since god sees everything) and stand idly by, maybe all-powerful but if he doesn't care and does nothing, to hell with fucken god...that movie (early nineties) turned me of all other war-movies, haven't watched any since, save for that from the south-park-idiots I also feel great hatred against just about ALL soldiers everywhereI guess you're man with heart by not joining the army and that feeling of uncomfortable with so much violence and injustice.
But sorry I think you're being ambigous here. First you seem to believe in God's non-existence because there has been no power trying to stop the injustice from going on, but then you say, "but if He doesn't care and does nothing, to hell with fucken...etc ", which is a conditional statement.
There is a difference between not-believe and not-understand something. When we were born, our spirit was pure like a white paper, I guess that may be some kind of the nearest reflection of God? Once in the past I had a big quarrel with my wife, we both shouted to each other, throwing things onto the floor etc, but what happened next was that my 3-year old daughter came between us, hugging both of us, and as I hugged her back and looked into her eyes, I felt something very strange was cooling me down, melting my ego and arrogance away. At that moment I felt like I was saved from being mentally too far from God or something.
This morning my daughter (shes 4-yeard old now) came to me and said "papa I see a black little ant in that water again, lets help him out !" Again I felt warm inside.
These warm feelings, sense of happiness...doesn't it mean that Someone actually cares about us?
And about those bastards who think they did something nobel by blowing themselves off killing innocent people, or sending troops out of greed and arrogance, making children lose parents, parents lose children.....does He ever care about it? Does He, or will He do something about it? I have a feeling that it would be too soon to make such evaluation right now.
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I genuinely do not believe in a creator.I say you're an honest person. I have as well a genuine believe in the Creator, its just that I feel I don't understand the Creator sometimes. Thats because I cannot imagine something who is totally different from us, the creature. The more I try to understand some things, the more I'm stuck in a state of confusion. But deep in my heart I feel the existence of that Being everytime I remember how fragile we are and the nature is.
I have experienced things unexplainable by the science I've been studying. I was used to believing that no one can see things through a solid barrier such as walls or from remote places. But as I posted earlier I had a girl friend who is very unique. When we played master mind (the board game with six coloured pegs) she always won the game at her first move, and it happened every time we play. She was able to read things I wrote in a different room, she always knew what I had in my pocket etc. I knew that she wasn't cheat, and I was scared at that time.
It has made me somewhat changed my orientation in viewing things. Somehow my experiences with her gives me a clear fact that some people and (maybe all of us under certain condition) might be able to see or perceive things without using the eye. My theory is that these electrical signals in the brain could be transmitted via other medium or be put directly into the brain and then we could view objects without actually having the light coming to the retina, or we could sense the feeling of having eaten delicious food without having to eat, or could hear beautiful musics without sound wave stimulating the ear drum.
So where is the creator of these electrical signals? It is a question difficult to answer since we perceive places and distances merely through our limited senses (We cannot even see an object moving at very high speed like a bullet projected from a rifle). I guess scientists should find out more on Einstein's relativity theory. If the being (that ppl call spirit) can travel or vibrate at the speed of light, then all the dimensions will be perceived differently and we might begin the spiritual journey to the unseen world?
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I don't believe that someone doesn't really believe in the Creator. Its just that they imagine the Creator as a being present somewhere in heaven or far away "outside" of this material world we call the universe. Part of the reason for increasing interests on shamanic plants I think is because of their hallucinogenic effects that might lead them to the world of spirituality, or in another word they want to experience the world outside of this "real world".
Speaking of the visions that people experience during the release of dmt, taking drugs, dreaming experience, etc. I think they belong to the same group, ie. perceptions. I believe that this material world (including atoms and the universe) is composed only of sensations, and the real absolute being is the Creator. Since material beings are each a perception, they cannot see the Creator, but the Creator sees the matter in all its forms (plants, animals, humans etc).
When we see the blue sky its not because its an absolute reality but because what we perceive as "the external world" is only the result of the software in the brain being stimulated by the electrical signals sent to it by our sense organs. If these signals are blocked from reaching the brain, these perceptions will stop. The same situation applies to all our other senses: sound, touch, taste, and smell are all perceived as electrical signals in the brain. We may achieve that kind of stimulation by taking hallucinogenics as well, but generally I think this universe itself is a hallucination too. The fact that we cannot see the Creator is because our brain software is given only perceptions. This perception is transmitted by a source of perceptions into the brain software. Imagine that humans are the heroes in one of those virtual realistic adventure games, except that the heroes are given their own will.
So when we die, that brain software (some ppl call it the soul or spirit) is simply disconnected from those perceptions (including the body) and we enter the world of the Creator, in which we will see what eye has not seen, what ear has not heard, and what has not entered the human heart.
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I believe that when your soul leaves the body, its still there fully alive but becomes lack of expression. I like the analogy of a microphone and a speaker. When you take a microphone away from a speaker, he can no longer be heard by the audience. But he is still a speaker.
I believe death experience is very similar to sleeping. In fact its analogous to a near-death experience. Sleeping is a different form of death, ie the state in which the soul leaves the body. While you're sleeping your body lies in bed where the spirit experiences totally different life in totally different places. In your dreams, you may "see" yourself on a beautiful island swimming at the beach, unaware that you're in fact sleeping in bed. This life itself is perhaps nothing more than a "dream" in terms of the next-life, the real-life, the eternity or whatever you may call.
So what happens when you die? Given that analogy it would be the same as when you are sleeping. The body reduces all functions to a minimum, leading to disorientation in place and time and slower body movements. Your soul will separate from the body and you might find yourself waking up in the middle of a new place, your senses become incredibly sharp so you can see your whole life played back in front of you just like a video etc, etc.
It is God who created you in a state of (helpless) weakness, then gave (you) strength after weakness, then after strength, gave (you) weakness, and a hoary head: He creates as He wills, and it is He who has all knowledge and power -
First, remove the husk by pressing the whole fruit between the base of your palms. You'll see the brown, conical-shaped seed inside, its very hard so you need a food processor or coffee maker. If you dont have it, get one of those stone "cobek" and "ulekan" (mortar and pestle) from the local market. Prices vary between Rp 5.000 to Rp 30.000 (0.7 to 4 $AU), depending on the size. Its a common tool here so you might find it also in the kitchen section of modern supermarkets like Carrefour etc.
Gynostemma pentaphyllum= jiaogulan
in Ethnobotany
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Ok, thanks for the picture, I will post a pic later. Anyone else has jiaogulan pic to post here?