-bijanto-

Ah, I see what you mean, like father like son. That must be quite an experience, I was wondering if it happened to me. I think I know my 4-year old daughter has some of my traits but it kinda hard to tell before she's grown up.

Here's from www.askmen.com: Woman Magnetism Power is an aphrodisiac for women. Despite all of Clinton's faults, one thing is for sure, women adored him, and often emailed us wanting to get in touch with him (or touch him period). George W. Bush will be no different, his position and his command, will make those of the fairer sex that are closest to him undoubtedly feel a little weak in the knees in his presence. No doubt his wife Laura Bush will have something to say about that though. And here's my artistic interpretation:

ouch. double post, please delete this one mr Mod!

Interesting game So any 2-digit number when subtracted by their first and second digit will result in these numbers: 9, 18, 27..........81 (multiplication of 9). They all have the same symbol next to them. How is he like you, planthelper..? I can't see any photo there.

I don't know how to say this properly in English, but it just doesn't seem right to dig up bad things about someone when he has passed away (regardless of whether he has kids or not), unless you are in a class to study history etc, or in a court to reveal justice. Perhaps I'm just one of the old-fashioned guys to believe in values like that. I personally admire the sharp, analytical views that most of you have shown, but IMO rational and open discussion about Steve Irwin should be better done in a more appropriate context. For example in a topic of "definition of conservation" etc. At the moment, the topic is more like "to inform that someone has just died". I would say good things about him if I could, and may he rest in peace. I think all of us deserve it when we die.

if Steve's daughter ever read this thread someday, I hope she read it when she had grown up to be wise enough to understand. Think about this way: Something bad written about him here could make her feel down, because she cannot ask his Dad anymore for an explanation.

Since he has died, I prefer to mention only good things about him. I don't know him very well but certainly he is more popular than John Howard in Indonesia. when I watched the TV news and a piece of a movie showing Steve playing with his kids near the crocs, I kinda sat back on my chair and thought for awhile. Being a dad of a young daughter myself, I kinda sad. It made me think that life is so fragile, unpredictable and full of irony. He seemed to be very well trained and prepared when it comes to crocodiles, but who would have thought it was a manta that killed him?

Ok Torsten, point received. I remember someone said that in the past when kratom was legal, you had some difficulty when trying for the first time to offer the species to the local community.

I love SBS's docos, they kept me in my room when I was in Melb. I wish Indonesian TVs would produce a lot more docos rather than repeatedly playing the same Hollywood movies or the local shallowy soap opera. So what are some of the best shamanic/ethnobotany docos ever played in Australian TVs in your opinion?

Well then glad to know there are some exceptions. Those ppl are welcome to contact me if they're interested

I agree on one thing: that people from botanic gardens (speaking of here in Indonesia) are typically conservative, lacking initiative and passion. So they seem to be slow to explore new species (except for what are left from the Dutch), or seem to be ignorant of what is happening in the other parts of the world. I was wondering, is there any member here working or involved in any botanical garden or research institutions? [edit] I wish I had a botanic garden someday.

I can't see why not. The 1961 Convention states to limit the possession, use, import/export of drugs exclusively to medical and scientific purposes. So the door of possibility should be wide open for botanic gardens (as scientific institutions) to import or possess these plants under a license from the Government. Besides, botanic gardens are usually owned by government. http://www.incb.org/incb/convention_1961.html Article 4: GENERAL OBLIGATIONS The parties shall take such legislative and administrative measures as may be necessary: A. To give effect to and carry out the provisions of this Convention within their own territories, B. To co-operate with other States in the execution of the provisions of this Convention, C. Subject to the provisions of this Convention, to limit exclusively to medical and scientific purposes the production, manufacture, export, import, distribution of, trade in, use and possession of drugs. Article 30: TRADE AND DISTRIBUTION 1. A.The Parties shall require that the trade in and distribution of drugs be under licence except where such trade or distribution is carried out by a State enterprise or State enterprises. B. The Parties shall: (i) Control all persons and enterprises carrying on or engaged in the trade in or distribution of drugs, and (ii) Control under licence the establishments and premises in which such trade or distribution may take place. The requirement of licensing need not apply to preparations. C. The provisions of subparagraphs A and B relating to licensing need not apply to persons duly authorized to perform and while performing therapeutic or scientific functions. [edit]

Torsten I was referring MYSELF HERE IN THIS POST as to possible "interface" or "information provider", between 2 parties - only if both are equipped with legal exemption. Certainly you have stated accurately what I should write to avoid misunderstandings, thank you. This is a subject to be discussed. Is it possible that most police units actually let their personnels hold a weapon without permission? Torsten I somewhat doubt your statement that MOST botanic gardens do not have such permit. If those gardens don't have any permission then why do they grow the plant and have it listed in their catalogue? For example the institutions I mentioned above, they have their garden (including this plant) open to public, so everyone can see what they grow, although they wouldn't let the visitors pick the seeds.

Before I am considered offensive etc, I feel I have to explain here that I am not offering to supply the seeds, that is not my intention. I'm aware that this is a public forum and we know the owner of this forum prefers to keep the posts on track. I just see that there might be an opportunity for Aust. botanical gardens - which has some legal exemption - that they might be able to import the seeds as a favor in terms of conservation.

E, the plant flowers and seeds all year long. He might not be able to find the plant there unless he has a good lobbying skill with the staff

Fucking slow internet connection I wish I were still in Melbourne, its gonna be a long time before I get the DVD.

The locals also believe this red juice will make teeth strong. As I've noticed since my childhood, most of their old folks still have complete teeth despite their unappealing stain on their teeth, the result of years of chewing. Is there any scientific evidence to back this up, could that be because of the betelnut's red tannin content which is astringent and is said to strengthen the gum (thus reducing the risk of dental caries)? Betel nut use refers to a combination of: -Seed of Betel nut (Areca catechu) -Concentrated extract prepared from gambir (Uncaria gambir)* -Lime. -Water These ingredients may be wrapped in a leaf of Betel vine (Piper betle), followed by sucking the combination in the side of the mouth. What I don't like about this tradition, they spit the blood red saliva almost everywhere. ======================= Some Note on Uncaria gambir: * From http://econtent.elibraryhub.com/SIP/conten...2005-01-03.html Traditional gambier is prepared by boiling the young leaves, pressing them to extract juice, making the juice into a concentrated form and drying it. There are different ways of moulding the final produce, in a block, cube or cake form. Different ways of boiling parts of the gambier plant result in different products of a varying taste. For example, the Chinese boil twigs over a prolonged period of time and make the end product as dry as possible resulting in a different kind of gambier. In India, rose water is mixed with cutch to make it aromatic and to give a more pleasant taste to the betel-quid. The traditional way to consume gambier is to apply it as a paste on Piper betel leaves after mixing it with lime and water, wrapping the leaves with some betel nuts and chewing it. It has a mild narcotic effect and stains the mouth red. In Southeast Asia, gambier is sometimes chewed alone as a gum. Uncaria gambir shrubs are slender woody vines or climbers. In cultivation, they can be seen growing as bushes. The plants grow to around eight feet high. The vine climbs in grapples and therefore the Malay call it kekait which comes from the term kait-kait, meaning to climb in "grapples". During the early stages of growth, the young plants need very wet conditions. They are therefore commonly found in the wettest parts of Malaysia and Indonesia, such as Western Malaysia and West Java. The leaves are oval or oblong in shape measuring 8 to 14 cm. in length with 4 to 5 pairs of nerves. The flower heads measure around 2.5 cm in length and are separated across by 3 to 4.5 cm. The flowers are slender with white coloured lobes and a red coloured corolla.

Good luck there According to K. Heyne's "De Nuttige Planten van Indonesie", the A.catechu seed germinates after 1.5 months, followed by appearance of small, unopened leaves about 4 months after the germination. The trunk will form in 2 years since planting from seed and the first fruits will set between 5-8 years, depending on soil condition.

Guys, It's so exciting to know that some of these plants have been conserved at some botanical gardens down there. I have a few friends working at several Indonesian plant research institutions so if there's any Australian botanical gardens require donation of these seeds, they are welcome to contact me, at least I can act like an interface or give them some information. I guess botanical gardens and research institutions have certain 'immunity' to import these seeds...? I remember some years ago, someone sent a post somewhere that he received his novo seeds ordered from Ethnogarden Botanicals in Canada, but the seeds were actually shipped from Australia..!! I think it's back in 2000 or 2001. Later on there were some problems and next thing I know, they stopped selling these seeds. There are a couple of plants in Java, cultivated at various altitudes. I know that there are about 5 mature E. novogranatense var Novogranatense plants at the Research Center for Medicinal and Aromatic Plants in Bogor. These plants share common characteristics of the E.novo var Novo: pale green, long, slender leaves with two marked lines parallel to the midrib on the underside of the leaf. The fruits are slender as well. The two E. novogranatense plants cultivated at Bogor Botanical Garden are different, though. The name plates have been lost, so I don't know their exact names but as written in a book containing list of plants cultivated at the BBG (published for their internal purpose), the plants refer to: "E. novogranatense var. Huanuco". These two plants are big, almost 2 meter tall, they both look very similar in appearance: pale green leaf (general characteristic of E.novogranatense var Novogranatense) with marked underside parallel lines. The only difference that I can see is that the fruits are almost perfectly round. Bogor is a warm place, the temperatures of which never get below 20C and most of the time it's very humid. Bogor is situated around 400 m of elevation. There are about 4 E.novogranatense var. Novogranatense plants cultivated by the Research Center of Medicinal and Aromatic plants in Lembang, North of Bandung, at an altitude of around 1400 m. Here they also grow some Eucalyptus species like Melaleuca bracteata (correct me if I'm wrong), and also Macadamia integrifolia trees that actually produce delicious fruits!!!. The novos grow happily there in the cool and comfortable mountain area, where I know the night and morning temperatures can get as low as 14-15 C. I've never come across any P. somniverum plant in West Java. I know BBG don't have it. When I check in their plant catalogue, I've also seen Argyreia nervosa listed but when I check to the location, the plant doesn't exist anymore (thank you DC for the HBWR seeds). I'm sure there are a lot of plants in my collection that they don't have as well. For example they have Psychotria viridiflora, not P. viridis (thank you Ferret for the little plant, it's big now), also I have a big B. caapi which they don't (thank you planthelper for the cutting). They don't have any collection of Catha edulis, T. iboga and M. speciosa!! (they only grow M. parvifolia). What I'm trying to say, is that some botanical gardens are probably lack passion, they can't do it alone. They need us, plant society. Someone who love plants, not just grow them. Here are the novo plants in Lembang:

It's frightening how our system works. This is the logic of the system: possessing such books are forbidden, as they are potential for making drugs. The same logic goes to weapons which are potential for killing. Following the same logic, discussion on these matters can also be considered illegal. What is the difference between books and knowledge? NOTHING. basicly they belong to the same island. Writing or saying anything on how to extract illegal substance from plants are illegal because they are the outcome of 'illegal knowledge'. Speaking on how to grow illegal plants is as much the same. To be smart, one would choose not to be so outspoken. I don't blame anyone, that would be illegal wouldn't it, to blame on the law? I am only speaking of the reality.

I've always wanted to know whether this plant can flower in warm tropical climate or not. How's the climate of Zimbabwe, is it more tropical, subtropical or temperate?

I think gotu kola (pennywort) should work in long term. Here are two recipes from "The Encyclopedia of Asian Food by Charmaine Solomon, Periplus Editions" that I copy from "Plant Detective Website": Plant Detective "Gotu Kola" Page I've found the fresh gotu kola drink that I make from actual leaves taste good. Just need water, sugar, blend and (optionally) strain. The colour of very fresh drink is attractive bright green but will soon turn into unappealing dark green if you let it sit for say half an hour or so. Asian (esp. Vietnamese) restaurants/groceries usually stock some canned gotu kola drink (rau ma). I havent tried the canned version but some ppl said the canned version is shit, it isn't going to taste as fresh/nutritious as if made from scratch. Jono, I think Herbalistic is selling some patchouli plants: http://www.herbalistics.com.au/shop/produc...products_id=163]Herbalistic's Patchouli Page[/url] I do have Tea plant, unfortunatelly I'm in Indonesia and your customs wouldn't allow import.

Both Centella asiatica and Bacopa monnieri in this case have similar properties and in trade they are found in the markets as brahmi. I've used to combining 2-3 fresh gotu kola leaves with rice or fried chips, taste good. It really has improved my memory. I've read it somewhere but I don't remember anymore what chemicals are in the leaves. Here's the picture of my gotu kola plant:

I love this veggie It is rich with vitamin A, B1, B2, and C. It also contains minerals like calcium, phosphorous, iron, copper and potassium. Surprisingly this vegetable can be made into many mouthwatering dishes, which are niether as bitter nor as uninviting as the raw vegetable. Bitter gourd is eaten in many forms in practically every country. My favourite is meat-filled gourd stewed in thick coconut milk soup (plus other spices). Cut the fruit into pieces of 2 inches and discard the seeds. Cook the gourd in boiling water briefly for 3-4 minutes, Drain. Now it should be less bitter and you can eat them alone with some sauce or cook further. These are a variety of meat-filled gourd dishes that I use to make: