folias

Bruce says I can still give them away... he will give the word and tell me when enough has been given away.

I originally saw this and possibly considered this was about me, but quickly could not even consider that as I had only met Rahli a couple of times at two different festivals and the exchanges had been pleasant and convivial. When he PM'd me to tell me who these devious, attacking, scamming people were, it turned out he was talking about me and a friend! and I was quite frankly very surprised. It turned out he had given me and friend the last of some goodies, the way he writes here you would think we tricked him out of it. Truth is, we didn't need it or really want it, as it was the last of what he had, but as I recall, he seemed to insist. His issue seemed to be that we didn't give him something back in kind. I frankly cannot remember, but I thought that we did! or didn't have anything to offer at the time! I apologised to him for this in PM after he made these posts, as normally me and my friend are very generous people. In fact, I feel that my friend is a paragon of generosity and a good example to us all. What Rahli would not have known is that around the time we were sitting with him, that my friends stepfather died and that he was actually not in his normal psychic space, and only later realised later did he realise that at that exact time we were with Rahli, that his stepdad had died. I was aware at the time we spent with Rahli, something was going on with my friend, but did not know what it was. So this lack of oversight on our part to reciprocate his generosity, was not due to Rahli but to other factors he could not have known about at the time. Perhaps Rahli was picking up an energy involving my friends realisation of his stepfathers death? and took it to be somehow related to him? In my memory, we had a good talk and then left on good terms. He also sent me a couple of PM's, after I came back the eclipse I had a lot of correspondance and I failed to reply to two PM's, short and friendly, which also apparently left a bad impression on him! Not replying was not intentional, in fact, in my memory I had replied and only had good will to him and the valuable connection he had made with another very astute entheogenic explorer and grower who I have known for many years. I'm posting this because I don't think he really realises what he has done. We have PM'ed about these issues and he seemed to be in denial about what he wrote and it seems he would have liked to have brushed it all under the carpet, and did not apologise to me or hint at taking responsibility. I have to say, this is a classic case of the BS that I have to put up with because of people's ego's unable to accept they are just a crazy monkey and just deal with their own issues, and project some imagined fault or blame some other conveniently crazy monkey (an entheogenic explorer!) rather than dealing with their own BS. In this case, what is blamed for, I think is really very small. That he uses words that he uses like "attacking" and "scam" I think is so off beam, that I can only implore Rahli to get psychological help and feel that only by humiliating him, to a degree, is he going to see that there is a problem and that the problem actually does not lie with me, but with him! I just want to highlight a paragraph I wrote earlier in this thread. "And hey, entheogens can really bring this everyday psychosis to the surface, and how many people are really able to deal with that? Personally, I don't have any illusions that human beings are anything but crazy, silly, childish monkeys. There are always exceptions, people who are aware that they are crazy, silly, fragile, childish monkeys and are really working on themselves because of that awareness - but they are quite rare!" And this is not an attack; it is a call for sanity. I wouldn't write this if I didn't care. I could let it go, but I really think Rahli would do well to take a good, long look at himself. I mentioned this to a friend, and he said I should not reply to this, and that, "fuck him, this is his shit, just don't go there!" but I feel this also contributes to highlighting a point, out of something I have been saying for years on this forum, about the nature of projection and ego. I feel that Rahli should have PM'ed me before going public. This is exactly the sort of thing I mentioned at entheongaia, that rarely, if ever, do people come forward and try to work out issues they have with me - and that I feel this is an indictment regarding the level of interpersonal immaturity and insanity which is clearly so rampant in Australian culture. whitewind wrote: >If we want a community based on gentleness and discussion, we need to deal with these issues before they become major problems. amen

You should PM me and tell me who these people are with specific circumstances and I am sure I can give you some further insight!

In the Ayahuasca world you can commonly find a lot of egotism. Either the people invovled are tough nuts who have not got the lesson or what I have noticed, Ayahuasca can act like an amplifier of the ego. Ultimately, the plants can only do so much, if the individual is not embedded in their own intelligence and inner work, then only so much work can occur if they are not integrating what work is occuring for them. And the work is only really occuring in one's life. You do find some people can have powerful experiences or set themselves up as being enlightened or a shaman or whatever and just ignore the data and not see the work they need to do or how they are acting, or not acting with integrity etc! My expectations for human beings is quite low, so I am continually being surprised when these expectations are exceeded and they often are as well! :-)

Well, the 30 are pretty much gone now, but I will keep this open until Bruce gives the word!

I recently had a girl write to me from South Africa and tell me how disappointed she was with the consciousness of people involved in the Ayahuasca scene over there. I said, it is no different anywhere in the world. I continually hear this, from people coming back from South America disillusioned about the shaman or this person or that person. As for the general entheogenic scene, it can be quite political and I can see it as an evolved scene, but only to a degree. I take people as I find them, not based on who they say they are. People of a pure intent and honest realisation I find to be quite easy to spot, because they are self aware and realising we are all fucked and that we are all completely divine. There is a certain humility and creativity present then - also a realisation of paradox. And then there are those who carry on in a state of denial and ego, and they are quite easy to spot, because they rely on various kinds of groupthink to orientate themselves and are not really centred in their intelligence and do not possess an understanding of paradox, and lack creativity. and for me, that's MOST PEOPLE! And hey, entheogens can really bring this everyday psychosis to the surface, and how many people are really able to deal with that? Personally, I don't have any illusions that human beings are anything but crazy, silly, childish monkeys. There are always exceptions, people who are aware that they are crazy, silly, fragile, childish monkeys and are really working on themselves because of that awareness - but they are quite rare! DMT doesn't enlighten anyone, it can show you some stuff, but that doesn't change how you act in the world, the issues you may have, the nature of your ego and problems and how you may effect others. What you are describing sounds like it could be a lesson in discernment. Sounds like you had high expectations, which is perhaps where the problem started. I recently had someone send me a series of abusive messages on facebook, after they didn't like what I posted on my wall! It was a bit of an eye opener as to how they saw the world! It really hammered home that a lot of people actually see the world like this guy, and underneath their nice guy exterior, they are just another psychotic faking being sane or even nice! So many people just have this undercurrent of obvious negativity churning away, which they are not putting effort into dealing with! Anyway, Rahli, you're a good soul, just don't let the bastards get you down!

11 packets left! Please just pm your address and not ask if there are any left!

16 packs left! :-)

Bogfrog, Yeah, they should grow in NZ no probs.

I've seen Reptyle naked. He has a huge wanger. "I don't know why he needs religion or vagine? oh, co-c-ah-oh-ka-al-ka-HOLIDAY!I do ya need a vaccine? like such sharp teeth! steel capped snake shoes, bangin' da bongin!" thanks, that's a line from the song "Twat JOB 11:22" from my latest E.P. "Exploit the Money Shot" on the "ShimShoop" label.

Reptyle, this one is for you baby!

Mindperformer, This shit you are talking about is shit that is thrown or coming from other people. Sorry, I don't take on this judgement or blame coming from others here, that I have caused "damage" in the way they say. as if they would know? ! This issue has a tendency to become overblown and overstated I feel, so lets put things in perspective. Problem is, there are some people out there who do not really know what they are doing and there are few who go a bit overboard in places where they should not. But I do think those people are in the minority. It is hard, or if not impossible to know all of what is going out there. But just from talking to people, most are very conscious and aware. There are some who say trees should not be harvested, even fallen down one's etc. and that is their opinion, but their "ultra-ethical" position does not make it the right one. It is very easy to be an armchair ethical expert in this matter. Ever been to Australia Mindperformer? As you can see this matter is deep and complex. Maybe we've just scratched the surface. Very few people really understand the issues. Even Torsten doesn't understand all of it going by his posts. This has all been going on for years and years. And look, the end result is so fantastic. Some people really don't get that. I think. Like I said, logging is a massive issue in general. And probably in one day, loggers take more DMT containing trees than harvesters ever have. And that is government sanctioned! Maybe at some point in the future this could really become a big issue, because people are not going to stop wanting Australian tryptamines. Like I said before, over ten years ago I wrote an open letter to the Australian Ethnobotany community encouraging everyone to grow the plants we need. At this time, I'm looking into new species which can be grown easily, which high yields from the phyllodes can be obtained. Julian.

It doesn't worry me that people treat me like a scapegoat. I find it kind of funny actually! And I don't think there are any single culprits per se. Thing is, heaps of people are doing this. Hundreds and hundreds. Most of them mean well, some are really onto it, but some of them have no fucking idea. 

A quite well known guy told me that he had "taken his first tree". It sounded like it felt like an initiation for him, but I felt quite uneasy about his attitude towards it.

>Before folias/Julian came along the harvesting of bark was done quite sensitively by people who cared for the local forests more than for their wallets or personal aggrandisement. It was done from obtusifolias that had fallen over in storms in NNSW state forests - often in inconvenient locations. that's actually incorrect Torsten, they would like you to think that, but they used chainsaws. sometimes you would go walking way back when and see places where people just chainsawed down trees. they just didn't like other people knowing of "their" territory. >Folias changed all that. It suddenly became acceptable to take live trees from conveneint locations including protected national parks. It also became acceptable to harvest species that are listed as endangered or rare. I can't be blamed from where people take trees. many years ago, I showed some people where some trees were. (not an easy place to acces btw!) Then one of them wrote a very influential tek. But they did not treat trees as living beings, then they showed other people. People then blamed me for their damage. All this is symbolic of course, of wider sharing - which is what some didn't like. >Discussion on this topic usually ended in 'but the trees told me it is OK to take them'. I don't recall any such discussions or me saying any such thing. >This 'word from a higher source' is the usual messianic bullshit any cult leader uses to justify his actions no matter how unethical they are. These forums document the discussion on that topic over the years quite well and anyone interested but not familiar with the issues can look them up. I never said there was a word from a higher source or anything like that. personally, I think it is plain silly to compare me to a messianic cult leader. >The same egocentric and greedy justifications are still used by the people who folias/Julian shared his knowledge with so that there is still harvesting going on of the rare A.courtti and the rare A.phlebophylla, which was previously unthinkable. Actually, people were going up to Mt Buffallo long before I did, they just didn't say anything about it. I personally feel the phyllodes are best used for brews. I do know people who have collected Phyllodes from Phlebophylla that have fallen down from the tree and consider that ethical. I know you don't. And that is your opinion. >There might be some justification in this if these were the only sources of DMT, but fact is that there is plenty of obtusifolia in gippsland which is a weed there and plenty of acuminata in WA. These could be harvested extensively without any ethical issues. But this is where convenience and greed come into it. Obtusifolia from gippsland is much lower yielding than the rarer species, and aciminata is in WA which is a long way from the main markets on the east coast. I do know people who do work in this area and a lot of them go after fallen down trees. >I don't share the attitude of some of Julian's other critics in that the whole DMT thing should have been kept more quiet. I am all for free information exchange. But I think anyone with a slight interest and understanding of ecology would be hesitant to publicise a rare species as a source of a commodity. It is sometimes a good idea to not share everything. I never publicised courtii. JJ did. Dennis McKenna did at his talk at the world psychedelic forum and said it contained 3% DMT. >Julian, you said at Entheongaia that you wished people would be more forthcoming with their criticism of you rather than talking behind your back. I had to laugh at that comment but did not feel like interrupting the flow of the largely selfcongratulatory love-in panel. Funny, you saw it that way. Other people saw it as a full on battlefield. From what people said to me later, they said they felt it was obvious that people were trying to paint a certain picture that is not actually accurate because of their own agenda. >I am not surprised people don't confront you because your end argument is always that people have some psychic problem or that they simply do not understand your superior intellect or superior spiritual level. You are putting words into my mouth here. but, hey maybe that actually is the case there are a lot of stupid people out there! and they don't understand anyone who is not operating from "greed, power or fame." but cannot get their shit together to attain any of those things. >Or that the trees or aliens told you that you were right. again, putting words into my mouth. I have no idea where you are getting this from. again, just trying to paint a picture that fills in what you want to believe wtih flat out baloney. >Ever considered that you were just a shallow, greedy, and self absorbed bullshitter who happend to stumbled on a ticket to ride? loving the projection! >If you really had this higher intellect or spirituality, why is it you are so toxic to the people around you? Sorry Torsten, you really don't know me very well at all or many of the people in my life. >I look at the people that pass through your life and wonder what long term improvements you can claim to have brought to their lives? How many are more drug addicted, more mentally ill, more destitute, or even dead after spendign time with you? So my best friend for many years and my girlfriend for many years didn't take their plant medicine and decided to drink alcohol and smoke massive amounts of pot. I can't be held responsible for their life choices. I do not think its fair to point the finger at me as being the responsible factor in their life choices and how things turned out for them. We can only be responsible for ourselves. You can try to do what you can for others. In my case, I did my best to help those guys. There are a hell of a lot of people who will tell you the good I have done for them in their life. Only a couple of them do you really know. so I think what you are saying is really quite unfair. >DMT is an amazingly beneficial drug, but you just don't seem to realise that it is not safe for everyone. You've done some great work, but you've also really fucked up a lot fo things and a lot of people. Well, I do not see it that way. I never said DMT was safe or suitable for everyone. >It's a pity psychedelics did not instil you with a sense of responsibility like they do with most others. Your greatest legacy from the last decade is to show how excessive DMT consumption can mess up your moral and ethical compass. Lets hope you've got something better planned for the next decade. hah, funny that. I don't really smoke DMT regularly and never have. More been into ayahuasca. I should mention for people reading this that one of the Torsten's good friends (who is also dead) treated me as an enemy and spread shit about me for many years, for no real reason that I could understand, except that I was with the girl that he said that he loved. >Julian has written on these forums about how he enjoyed the lifestyle of limousines and jetsetting for a while, and a lot of people find that wrong. I never said that. You said that and I was like wtf? The only time I have taken a limo was when I was 14! >I don't. The work to achieve this is very hard and risky [both in terms of personal freedom and OH&S] and I don't see a problem with luxuries as reward for the efforts. After all ANYONE could have gone out into the bush and done the same thing, but people are inherently lazy so they don't [but then whinge when someone else profits from their desires]. well, you've got something of a point there. I'm not sure I really believe in "luxuries" myself. That is really the essence of materialism. >My problem is purely about the sources and the ethics. People who take rare or endangered species from the wild for their personal [and often exuberant] financial gain are despicable in my opinion. I have always maintained this position with Julian, so this will not come as a surprise to him. I only know one person who has harvested endangered trees to any significant extent, and I don't think they are "in action" atm. it kind of works like that.... That doesn't mean there are not other people out there doing that. Or that there are a *lot* of people out there doing harvesting to different degrees in different ways. What Torsten is suggesting as an ethical way is what some people are already doing. I think many of those people carry out what they do in an ethical way and come at the whole thing from quite an evolved perspective. and that is the kicker, I have witnessed greedy and quite unconscious people try and do this and get fucked up from doing it. powerful plants have powerful allies. really, like I keep saying, and Torsten has communicated here, I'm sometimes a scapegoat for a whole lot of other people who keep their mouths shut and carry on in an often deceitful way. Julian.

Phyllode, Personally, I have thought and have always thought this is all so silly. the heat doesn't worry me. I've been pretty deliberately high profile (err, why do you think that is? ) as a matter of course, for over a decade and if people decide to scapegoat me for a whole bunch of things they believe that is going on, well, do you think I really care? There are hundreds, if not thousands of people harvesting all sorts of different trees all over the east coast. The little north coast bubble is just a small part of that. Most of these people are really very conscious and aware folk and there are a few who are not. I've come to feel all this is a psychic thing, with a small bunch of people being pissed that their little dinner party is being replicated all over the place, and that people no longer need to turn to them for recipes and drinks. It is not really an ecological thing. Negative tribal sentiment is easy to stir (with some people spreading all kinds of lies and wild stories about me), but its all about a strawman. I don't even see it as being about me. Thing is, in this field, there are so many people in the shadows who think that is so clever and "cool", they don't like any spotlight upon them and what *they* are doing and I think that is what someone like me, who has been more open and forthcoming and sharing, has brought to ahead - its easier for them to point the finger at me to protect their assumed interests. A lot of the north coast crew have seriously thought of me as a narc! And to me, that shows how uninformed they are. It is a place of much negative gossip and bad vibes. ok, so if I really am a narc, that goes to show how little they know, if their accusations about me are at all accurate! Your "lynchmob" is then based on what? I don't even know what people say about me, but from what I hear, most of it is total BS! My name is just a convenient name to bandy around. I can appreciate Nen's intentions, but feel he has gone over the top at times, spreading information which cause people to exaggerate the issues at hand. Species like Obtusifolia is thriving in many places on the east coast. It is a common tree. He said to me 13 years ago he saw a whole forrest cut down. I didn't disbelieve him at the time, but he still posits this an ongoing issue, when he is the only person to have reported this. Like I said earlier, there is one stand of trees which the north coast community was so concerned about for many years, of which all the Obtusifolias, as a pioneer species, most of them fell down and rotted in the last five or so years! THAT is poor resource management. All this wowserishness was about this stand of trees. If you know the area well, there are other places where new stands of trees are coming up, but in that place, the canopy is too big now for many new trees to grow there. It is not a black and white issue. Uninformed minds think: trees chopped = bad. When in fact, there is a LOT more going on here. Many are concerned about the native flora, and that is understandable. Nen's fears are understandable up to a point. I did write an open letter to the Australian ethnobotany community over ten years ago, that communicated that we needed to grow more plants now! Only in the last few years have people really gotten onto that and I've been glad to help them when possible. btw, thanks for putting all this out there Phyllode. It is good to at least hear what some people are thinking. Most of the time, you never know, because they don't say anything or write anything. Julian.

Addressed these points in a more diplomatic way in the post below :-)

Mindperformer, I'm just editing my book at the moment, and it will likely by published next year by a well known publishing house.

Santiago, 

Hey, I'm not dead! 

 Phyllode, 

I don't know who you are or what axe you have to grind or why, it all sounds like a poor excuse for you to get worked up and project shit onto someone else who you don't know and may not have even met! ! 

most people reading this are just going to think you are talking about yourself, as it is such blindingly clear projection! 

 

ha! So much hate! Clearly you are with the dark side! ;-)

 You might want to expend that energy dealing with your own issues dude! Like Bulls on Parade this looks like projection to the max. Seen it all before! Met people like you before. As for DMT, I've written a book and have covered these issues in there. It is a big topic. I guess a lot of us, would not be able to imagine what life would be like without the experiences we have had with DMT! 


 Julian.

Plant spirits are just obvious and evident to most all of the serious people who work with psychoactive plants. Most all cultures who seriously work with plants talk of plant spirits as well. It is largely just westerners who are the heathen unbelievers! I say good luck to anyone who can make money distributing plants to people who will pay for them! They are a hell of a lot better than the synthetic medicine that is predominant in western society. Julian.

Bit of a dumb and closed minded article. Primal screaming may in fact be a decent sort of therapy however. Best primal screaming I have ever done is on 1000 mics !

Planthelper, That's awesome! Hey, I think that NOW may be the time for the seeds up there, I can't remember when they actually fruit. I haven't come into any more seeds, but it would be good if someone from the community could get onto this and get more of them out there. It might already be too late for seeds this year, I'm not sure! I think it is really important for this tree to understand human appreciation and nurturing. Julian.

As far as RC's go, these guys seem quite friendly. They are like the 2c's, but a bit more clear, a bit more like LSD. I find it odd that people are od'ing on them. Maybe it is the STP effect, as sometimes these class of compounds don't work and some people may take "10" or whatever and have an OD. The Russians have been onto these compounds for many years now, and they have only been really known in the west a year or two. The chinese pump out this stuff, and it was only a matter of time before some people starting realising that one dose was going to cost 5c or whatever. As far as RC's go, these seem to be the least harmful so I'm surprised about these deaths... Julian.

"Some would be aware there is a species in Australia, called the Pious Armchair Gumnut (PAG), which is unfortunately rather common. such types are surprisingly homogenous, exceedingly precious, judgemental, egotistically and humourously political and petty, tending to be cagey, and at once gossipy and normally out of touch with reality, its variables and nature because of an overt theoretical and impractical nature. But this does not mean they are bad people, they have good sides too; you could certainly trust them with your chickens! (at least I think you could...)" Whoops. I think I offended "phyllode" in another thread! I suspect he is not as armchair as all that. Sounds like he's got his fingers in a few pies, what with all his in depth knowledge and stuff! Just trying to understand where this dude is coming from... http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29971&st=25 hmm, he shows some interesting colors here. Seems extremely offended when people suggest he might be doing something considered illegal. A big ego too! Don't worry matey, this is a common affliction with those of us attracted to the ego destorying plants! Julian.

>Many in the community here know just exploitive you are. there is marvelous medicine in nature. it behooves us to share with this with our fellow humans. Sure, I have made mistakes. But for the most I have a great relationship with many different plants and they appreciate my work. thanks. if you personally do not the acumen, skill or balls to do share in a similar way, don't hate on others who have, and then point it all at egologistics! (which seems to your excuse to be a hater, and I have come across people like you a fair bit! so get on with your own life and stop your projections! I have no idea who you are and am pretty sure you don't know me from a bar of soap! >If you actually cared about these plants you'd have some ecological sanity. seems that you are accuse me of ecological insantiy! which I refute! I'd be suprised if you have had more of an ecologically sane impact than me. >The Blue Mountains. The North Coast. Decimated, no doubt by people like you. last time I checked there were plenty of obtuses around the blue mountains. even in people's gardens. and in the north coast, plenty of them around in inland areas as well. I would be interested to hear of this decimation you are talking about! >I really am coming after you (legally, of course) ok, so should I give you the address of my lawyer? do I know you? have you even talked to me? what is your real intention and issue here? I think being a "white knight" for the trees is just an excuse you give yourself not to deal with your own issues. thanks, but I've seen this all this before many times and I find it really boring quite frankly. Julian.

>wondering if these species have trouble growing to full maturity or if I am maybe not venturing far enough off the beaten path...I you need to go deep into the forrest and most national parks have limited paths, so many of these trees are just not easily accesible to human beings. >wouldnt it be wise of a community like this to get that info out and about as much as possible and maybe slow down the de-barking thats happening (if it is rampant) I think its a myth it is rampant. Every now and then there are random reports of someone seeing whole areas completely decimated by harvesters. I've never seen such a thing and I don't know anyone else who has seen such a thing. I am only aware of one person who says this, and he is extremely protective of this species! Maybe he saw something many years ago. I don't know. But generally, it is fires that kill the trees so that mature trees are not as common as young uns. But that goes for all acacia species. I mean, I've never been able to find really mature specimens of Acacia longissima, not due to anyone harvesting them but due to fires and the species is not that common. I know one area known to a lot of people, where acacias are a pioneer species, and have been usurped by other species, and most all of the mature obtusifolias have just lived out their life span and fallen over! I've seen people just leaving logs they chainsawed on the path there, but obviously they were not interested in most of these trees! As the bark is just rotted on so many dead ones. one big tree is enough to supply the tribe and most other tribes in the surrounding area for a year. if people were razing whole areas I am not sure where it would actually go! It is not like acacia harvesting is a massive industry with big global demand. in the eu or u.s. people normally either make it themselves or buy it dirt cheap from entrepreneurial brazilians. I'm in the eu now, and every now and then you hear of people who got some dmt from australia, maybe some waxy red stuff. but yeah, I think some people have some illusions about this story. and also, I think the people doing it are generally a conscious and conscientious bunch, with exceptions of course, and with the level of secrecy and associated BS involved in the underground, it is hard or impossible to know what is really going on overall. Years ago, I met this biker dude (through an eb conference) who told he was stripping longifolia bark off trees off mature trees on a mates property and making DMT for the biker community! the guy didn't seem to have too much concern about how he was killing all these trees, and I heard he ended up in jail shortly after for some other thing (karma?) and that is the big, underestimated element, powerful plants have powerful allies. you just don't fuck with them and every now and then I hear these stories of people going acropper after doing wrong by the trees. but yeah, I know of places where there are mature acacias as far as the eye can see. I doubt even the most rampant harvesters could really make a dint into those places, as loggers are already chopping away in these areas anyway! Julian.