Inyan
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Posts posted by Inyan
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8 minutes ago, MountainGoat said:nice work on the v. mamm. I've got a few going from last season, plenty of strange growth, i think there'll be a few varis in there too. I'll post some pics of mine when they get a bit bigger...
Quick questions for you @MountainGoat
1. Did you graft yours?
2. Were yours sourced from Koehres?
3. Why not post here now?
I love to see seedlings as they progress through their stages. Or am I just a little nutty that way? At any rate, I'd love to see a bunch of different Lophophora jourdaniana var. mammilaris on a single thread. Especially so if there is any variation from seedling to seedling or if sourced from a place other than Koehres.
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I have literally grow many of my Trichocereus in a bog without ever trimming their roots. In fact, growing in a bog like that tends to stunt their roots.
If your roots are root bound, it is common practice to cut through them or untangle them so as to free them up, but I can't see doing anything more than that. Light pinch off the bottom of the roots or and run your fingers through the sides of the roots. If the roots are too small to do that you can use another tool like a chopstick, etc. This applies to other plants besides just cacti as well.
If you want to prune your Astrophytum tap roots on the other hand go right ahead as I have seen Astrophytum grown hydroponically that way as it is the finer roots that you need in home cultivation.
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2 hours ago, Teotzlcoatl said:Why is it called " var. mammillaris"?
The simple answer is because that is how it was labeled when I purchased it.
LOPHOPHORA jourdaniana 10K - v mammilaris 10K (3185) https://www.koehres-kaktus.de/shop/Cactus-seeds/Lophophora---1_364-2.html
or LOPHOPHORA jourdaniana 10K (4930) https://www.koehres-kaktus.de/shop/Cactus-seeds/Lophophora---1_364.html
Mammilaris though... refers to nipples so you know I had to have it.
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Lophophora jourdaniana var. mammillaris on 20 OCT 18 day 2
Note, rained today and as I keep my grafts outdoors this time of year graft was fully drenched.
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Just to consolidate...
Koehres pollinations
Lophophora williamsii Huizachex Lophophora koehresii
Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii
Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii f2
Lophophora koehresii x Lophophora fricii
Lophophora koehresii x Lophophora diffusa
Lophophora fricii El Amparox Lophophora koehresii
Lophophora fricii x Lophophora diffusa
Lophophora diffusa x Lophophora koehresii
Kada
Lophophora diffusa x Obregonia denegrii
Other hybrids as per http://www.magicactus.com/lw_jourdaniana.html
and other sourcesLophophora williamsii x Mammilaria bocasana
Lophophora williamsii x Mammilaria zeilmanniana
Lophophora williamsii x Mammilaria Strombocactus disciformis
Lophophora williamsii x Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele
Lophophora williamsii x Ariocarpus fissuratus
Lophophora williamsii x Astrophytum asterias
Lophophora williamsii x Epithelantha micromeris
Lophophora jourdaniana
Lophophora jourdaniana var. mammilaris
Now, much of what I have found did not include locality information for specimens used in these crosses nor did they always include whether the specimen chosen was a self-fertile or not.
Also note, there is not much information to be found on how these pollinations occurred. Was the flower emasculated first? Was a donor pollen or mentor pollen utilized? Was a cut style approach used?
Given that often it is possible for a particular phenotype to be dominant over another was the cross carried out further to the f2 or even backcrossed to help bring out the recessive traits or was it just assumed the cross was successful without further breeding of the progeny?
Were the progeny sterile thus making an f2 impossible to make?
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Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii day 24
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Lophophora jourdaniana var. mammillaris on 19 OCT 18 day 1
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Here you go, these are the only photos I can find unfortunately of this crested specimen I grafted at a much smaller size than is shown in these photos. If memory serves me, it did not lose its crested form initially when grafted the first time. However, I have cut on this one a few times since this photo was taken and some pieces did indeed revert for a time.
I will take more photos when I get home to see what is going on with this one now. Bottom line, small crested pups grafted can indeed revert and then go back to crested, but need not ever revert.
In the mean time...
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Trying not to edit my posts too much, so I'll just add this below.
Have you also heard the rumor that a crested cutting that is too small also will revert and lose its ability to crest?
Perhaps that is indeed true with a particular crest.
However, my own experience proves otherwise. My suggestion, test something that seems a little off before you discount it, but realize that results may vary simply due to the specimen used.
The same thing happens in hybridization. Someone assumes a cross can't happen with a particular species because they have attempted the cross a few dozen times with the same exact specimens. Pollen can be quite variable from one locality to the next with some species.
Sometimes experiments have to be repeated many more times than we would like before positive results are found and yes, sometimes one may find that those positive results are not what you were actually looking for.
False positives and the like abound. The right method may simply not have been found yet or if the right method is known the method may be beyond the expertise of the one trying. There are often many different variables to look at.
Back to your crested specimen, I will look through my pictures to see if I can find a very tiny less than pea sized graft I did of a crested form that reverted for very little bit. I then cut that specimen back again and prompted it to go revert again. Round and round we go, but the story is the same. Crested forms when cut very tiny will often revert to normal, but then often go right back to crested. It all depends on the genetics of the particular crest one is talking about.
I have another crest I cut back on where several pieces reverted for several inches. One piece is just now starting to crest, but it is still only a few inches tall.
Do your own experiments and find your own answers. That is the best advice I can give. When your ready to give up and are satisfied with your answer realize there may yet still be more to the story.
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This would be great if someone discovered a way to take the cresting genetics out of a specimen.
The ability to selectively force a cacti to remain stable forever could come in handy.
What I am wondering though is that since the cresting phenomenon can often be passed down to a crested's progeny, will cacti thus treated also no longer have crested offspring?
Or more interestingly, will crested cacti thus treated also have their offspring revert permanently as well?
Perhaps what is needed is a day by day or week by week type progression thread of bap on a few different crests to prove this out? What may be true with one specimen may not be true with another.
The difficulty one might find though is that some crests take weeks to crest from seed and some take years.
I'd suggest you experiment with a crest form that only took weeks to form a crest from seed rather than one that took years to form as your experiment might take an excessively long time to confirm if you chose a specimen that only crested later in life.
I am sure there is no shortage of crested forms that have crested within a few weeks time here on these very forums.
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"Crossing experiments within the genus Lophophora
Gerhard Koehres has reported successfully making the following crosses within the Lophophoras (success being judged by the production of seeds that have then been grown into actual seedlings)
Koehres noted these to be self-sterile:
L. alberto-vojtechii
L. diffusa
L. fricii
L. koehresii
L. williamsii El Huizache SLP
L. williamsii Norias del Conde SLP
Koehres listed 25 additional L. williamsii populations that he had determined were self- fertile.
L. williamsii Parras, Coahuila is said to be self fertile despite most people now placing this with L. fricii.Koehres did not get pollination for L. koehresii using pollen from L. williamsii Huizache but found L. williamsii Huizache could be successfully pollinated using pollen from L. koehresii.
Koehres also successfully pollinated L. koehresii with pollen from L. fricii and L. diffusa. (Kada used a self-fertile L. williamsii and could get no pollination using pollen from L. diffusa, L. fricii and L. koehresii.)
L. fricii was reported by Koehres to be successfully pollinated using pollen from L. koehresii and L. diffusa. (Kada reported failures after 7 attempts involving L. diffusa pollen, 13 with L. williamsii and 18 L. koehresii pollen but reported success for 1 attempt involving a L. williamsii.)
L. diffusa was successfully pollinated by Koehres using pollen from L. koehresii. (Kada has recorded a consistent failure after 11 attempts with pollen from L. fricii, 4 with L. koehresii pollen and 3 using L. williamsii pollen.)
L. koehresii was successfully pollinated by Koehres using pollen from L. diffusa and L. fricii but not with pollen from L. williamsii Huizache (Kada reported successful pollination for 19 attempts using L. fricii pollen but none in 4 tries with L. diffusa pollen and 29 with L. williamsii pollen)
Koehres found that fruit can form from the early flowers within around 8 weeks but for the later blossoms the fruit often do not emerge until the following year. Koehres also commented that the self fertile populations are very uniform in comparison to the self sterile populations which are more highly variable in the shape of the body and the flower.
Lophophoras suspected of being hybrids
There are a number of Lophophoras in horticulture that are known to be or suspected to be hybrids. Most intriguing to me are Kada’s Lophophora diffusa X Obregonia denegrii. I look forward to hearing how those seedlings grow up.At some point an entry on this subject will be added here but the work is still ongoing so only this note is presently being included." https://sacredcacti.com/blog/lophophoras/''And for those interested in f2 Lophophora hybrid seed.... https://www.koehres-kaktus.de/shop/Cactus-seeds/Lophophora---1_364-10.htmlThe above is Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii f2.One more hybrid f2 of course... https://www.koehres-kaktus.de/shop/Cactus-seeds/Lophophora---1_364.htmlNot sure if anyone else is growing these, but for those interested in hybrids they are worth a shot.Lophophora from one locality to the next has such variability in pollen it makes sense that some crosses might not be possible with one locality, but possible with another. Whatever the case may be, you have to salute those hybridizers that have been successful in these endeavors as well as those that were bold enough to try and fail.
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Grafting Lophophora jourdaniana var. mammillaris on 18 OCT 18 at 1700.
I'm a bit more hopeful with this graft made today and if everything proceeds as planned I will be showing pictures as this one progresses.
Note, it is cold out as winter is approaching so we shall see how this graft does given the cold temperatures.
Parafilm wrapped around stock. Seedling selected
Seedling cut horizontally as was stock. Seedling placed on vascular bundle
Parafilm placed over top of seedling to hold it in down so as to keep it from floating away or blowing off etc.
Graft left outdoors as I don't have time to bring her in for special treatment.
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22 hours ago, irabionist said:If you take pictures from the same angle and same spot everyday I can help put together something like this
You obviously have mad skills when it comes to picture taking as well as taste in cacti judging by your photo's.
With that being said, this is the best I could come up with today and it took 32 pictures for me to get the one I am okay with. Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii day 23
Awesome work by the way! @irabionist. I would love to have some of the genetics you have to say the least as well.
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Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii day 22
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Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii day 21
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Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii day 20
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Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii day 19
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Saw the talk on mutagens and thought I might offer this, "Ethylmethane sulfonate (EMS) is a very dangerous mutagenic and carcinogenic substance that must only be used and disposed of in a laboratory familiar with the handling of powerful mutagens. Generally, seeds are allowed to soak overnight in water, and then exposed to a solution of 0.2% (w/v) EMS on a shaker for 24 hours. The seeds are then rinsed ten times, and allowed to germinate. Armed with a proven protocol, the daylily breeder should hire a professional facility to treat his seeds, and perhaps even seek their help in devising an optimal course of treatment. Successful mutagenesis is suggested by a lethality rate of 50%. Tetraploidy doubles up the chromosomes, which can be great, but EMS has the power of making point mutations, that is, it leaves the chromosomes super-structure and count largely intact, but will modify individual genes in horticulturally novel ways. It may create new shapes such as reliable polypetals, yet unseen colors and patterns, as well as totally unexpected results. You are unlikely to see anything but dominant mutations in the treated seeds. Since most mutations will be recessive, it will be necessary to self-pollinate the plants that that survived the EMS treatment. It is from their offspring that the majority of interesting new mutants will be found.
As most mutations are deleterious, a very large number of treated seeds will have to be planted in order to find the gem in the army of EMS treated runts. " http://web-o-rama.net/daylilies/daylilytetraploidinduction.htmlThanks for sharing!
On the topic of colchicine and doubling the chromosomes... the main benefit I see there is the ability to double up on genes and of course the possibility to create new phenotypes based on the fact that new combinations of genes not possible before may be suddenly be possible. There are of course pro's and cons to that as recessives may be harder to get to express as well unless you are in fact dealing with breeding doubled recessives in the first place.
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Lophophora jourdaniana var mammillaris
Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii day 17
Thailand
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15 hours ago, Alchemica said:Well said @Inyan Coming from only ever being interested in plants for medicinal aspects, to then finding the enjoyment of creating that nourishing connection to food, I always dismissed anything else as aesthetic gardening and pointless. Not saying food/medicine isn't important, I'm just surprised to find how the act of relationship with something that won't deliver a therapeutic brew or even food really breaks the addictive consumption mindset - something I was always struggling with
Always have to take time to stop and smell the roses. Enjoying something as simple as minor differences in phenotype in Lophophora hybrids for instance is what attracts me to the fricii type hybrids. Those occasional brightly colored flowers if one can get one is great.
The same thing for Brugmansia or Datura hybrids... watching those flowers open up for the first time gives you the unique experience of being the first to see that hybrid bloom for the first time. Perhaps it is not spectacular by anyone else's standards, but for me it is exciting even when the flower is plain white. I'm doing a happy dance if I get something more.
@Humbolt Your perspective is reflected in how I was taught to view plants, animals, etc. All are beings/spirit/energy/vibration on the web of life. That web of the mind that mirrors the outside world and those connections we make internally about the connections we have externally to the same. It is a mirror in some respects then that the mind can reflect the connections or energy to one extent or another. The more in tune you are to a particular plant or animal the more that animal or plant resonates with you. At a certain point, generally after having had a particularly powerful connecting vision with a particular medicine/pejuta/plant/animal that energy/spirit becomes a part of you and that is reflected in the idea that you now have that particular connection in a stronger way than many to a particular medicine. You have that animal/plant/medicine as a part of you and you can draw on its strength.
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36 minutes ago, mkcobain said:Thanks Guys!
I had some seedlings so I tried to graft on pereskiopsis.
Scion shrinked and softish but it is steady on stock. do you think it can survive?
It can survive, but I wouldn't bet much money on it.
You cut a lot of tissue off which helps the seedling dry out faster.
Increasing humidity or simply placing parafilm stretched out over your grafted scion would have prevented the seedling from drying out.
If you have a big seedling like you appear to have had, try cutting it down so the seedling forms a square or a rectangle with the small size down/horizontal and the long sides up/vertical if grafting with areoles pointing upwards.
I sometimes graft seedlings on their side to good effect as well, but that is just for play. You want a nice fat seedling for that and you barely go into the tissue at all.
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7 hours ago, Alchemica said:You can eat the kale, do the meditations, sip on the plant medicine but how healing is that really?
I got disenchanted with 'plant medicine' as it was often turning into a bunch of band-aid experiences and pits of continuous self-medication. I saw lots of people embarking on the same loop, it seemed to be a pathway of less healing than expected. Anyone else found that?
I think we've often lost some aspect of simply nurturing something that doesn't give back to us with food or medicine etc. A deeper connection to the Web of Life.
I started growing some non-medicinals, things that weren't providing me with anything, and noticed something...
From the butterfly attracting Milkweed to Milly's forget-me-nots to Acacias I'd never had any interest in...
In the past, a plant's worth was dictated to me by what it could do for food or medicine, a very ego-centric view on the plant. There was nothing spiritual or worthwhile about a plant being simply a living entity, the essence of respect was often not there/not as deep - what did it do for us other than provide a bit of oxygen?!? It's "just a plant"... I was centred around always taking something from a plant, be it food, medicine, boosts in self etc.
If we treat humans in such a way, constantly dictating their worth by what they can do "for me/us" and with limited respect for their unique worthwhile existence, that's a very unhealthy view that's all too prevalent in society - I believe our human relationships are often mirrored in the way we treat the Earth. If we flip that "for me/us" around into what we can do "for them" without expectation of something in return, that's the start of some healing. In that flip, you also seemingly make room for healthy natural reciprocity
Today I see the worth of a plant beyond that narrow view. I'm starting to nurture something that I don't expect anything in return from. The essence of each plant has it's own gift, beyond a phytopharmacological or nutritional cocktail, and deserves respect - a more eco-centric and spirited view
Looking forward to Trees for Life
I've been growing plants since I was could tie my shoes. I propagated African Violets by leaf before I learned my times tables. The bottom line is I love plants, nature, forests, etc. Watching butterflies hatch, hummingbirds swoop in... it all makes me feel at peace. When you hybridize, graft, grow from seed, etc... you often learn to take thing slow and find excitement in watching the simplest flower open for the first time. You become an active participant in nature, but I don't think that is limited to the plants we grow simply to grow. Nor are the plants we grow for medicines or food any less important.
For me, it is the connection we make with nature and with plants in general and that relationship can be fostered just like any other relationship. Treat your plants with respect and realize that they have gifts to offer such as food, medicine, beauty, purifying the air, etc. But also realize we can bring gifts to our plants. Gifts of water, fertilizer, good soil, appreciation, respect, and yes even the air we breath out.
We are connected. We are related. That is what it is all about. Fostering that feeling that we instinctively know is true, but also realizing that science validates that connection as we truly are all connected.
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Day 16 Lophophora williamsii x Lophophora fricii
I love to see hybrid pictures @bardo so please feel welcome to share anytime on this thread if you so desire. -
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Grafting Lophophora jourdaniana var. mammilaris 18 OCT 18
in Cacti & Succulents
Posted
For me at least, I think it would help to identify L. jourdaniana var. mammilaria when compared to Lophophora jourdaniana. I mean, I get the difference in the name, but for me... it helps to see a lot of pictures showing the differences as sometimes they are subtle to me. Could be I just need more exposure though.