gerbil
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Posts posted by gerbil
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damn I love it when you talk salt chemistry Torsten
I find it one of the most fascinating parts of chemisty, so basic but with endless technicalities at the same time (no pun intended
Thanks a heap Mindperformer, I too had a misunderstanding about this plant, really appreciate this discussion.
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hah got the bit i thought i should cut out
Thanks for the info, it really is fascinating even small bits of writing about it, but I understand the reluctance, maybe not the best word, but i think you get it :D
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i'd be keen on seeing any war stuff if you feel like sharing it EG, fragments, shells, bayonets, knives etc.
Nice interest, you'd find some fascinting stuff over there, and no doubt have already.
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Sow in a light well draining mix, a 'seed mix', can be more organic/forestry based like coirs, composts etc, or can be more mineralistic for tricky or rot prone seed like coarse sharp sand or perlite, or a mix of both like a coir:perlite, CSS:compost etc.
Torsten's spoken alot about CSS as a starter but I don't think many people have listened or caught on. It's on the forums and the info pages on the main sab site.
Seeds generally have enough nutrient to get them going for a couple of weeks, then they'll need a source of nutrient. So yes you can start them in a nutrient free mix, but be aware of the context and react accordingly.
Sieving can be beneficial for both particle size definition/incoporation/exclusion and loosing up the mix.
Generally plant twice the depth of the seed, but it really is specific to species, some just lay on top.
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so how goes it eth?
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yep, that to me is a classic overwatering, curled/drooping leaves with yellowing from the oldest leaves up, leads to roots inability to breathe, root rot, lockout of/inability to uptake nutrients and potentially pH problems = a stunted plant.
I'd do as suggested and ease up on the watering to allow the roots to heal, breathe and uptake nutrients, i'd also start lightly feeding it when you see some recovery.
If you are not good at guaging wet and dry, get a moisture meter, the top can seem dry so people will water heavy, whilst the guts are still quite wet, but you don't want the other extreme of it drying out completely.
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always healthy lookin' plants stillman, I like your attention to detail, good work.
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Vinca major, cilia on leaf margin.
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photos a little grainy due to bad shots and size reduction, so doesn't show things like resinous margins too well, need to figure out how to use this thing.
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wow nice willys and that kk339 is shit hot, need to get mine in the ground, laggin in pots due to space issue, but have a spot lined up this spring :D
nice one mutant
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Still fairly small and of varying sizes (and varying ages), but well established, still trying to track down various materials for their first potting on, want a really nice mix so won't be rushing it.
I'm trying for good macros for diagnostic, nice stipules and glands etc, but I don't really know what i'm doing and getting these were hard enough haha, soon I guess.
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Don't worry about it being silly, they are very easy mistakes to make and we all have been there and are just trying to improve ourselves, hell I cringe about some of the things I used to say or think (and often still say and think haha), and now knowing my mistakes and have moved to a different day to day understanding get frustrated at people who are at the stage that I was at, thinking how can anyone think 'xyz', a major flaw on my part that I try pick myself up on and improve.
What I mean is, don't worry about embarrasing yourself or whatever, just keep an open mind and improve where you can, if people give you shit that is their problem, not yours, it really takes time and honestly no one will be able to get it all in their lifetime, even top experts fuck up all the time, it's a long journey about constantly improving. Also use it or lose it, if you don't keep up the practice, you'll be back at the start very quickly.
I really hesitate spelling out a lot of wattle information so am going to hold back a bit, far too often it falls into the wrong hands, and that includes a lot of people on this forum, too many people are impatient, have ideals and justification with such little respect and or understanding of ecology but they get on their high horse and defend their actions for whatever reason, i've seen it far too often and it really eats me up, that said i'll climb down from my similar stallion for a minute.
A benefit also in not spelling it out, is that you will learn more solidy over time, it can be hard and frustrating, but once you've put the effort in you will appreciate it, nothing in life is free, if we want something we have to work for it, just a simple fact of life, if we are handfed we will not develop the skills to their full potential.
Make botanical glossaries your friend, you are going to need it, constant refering. Here's a couple to look at.
http://florabase.dec.wa.gov.au/help/glossary
http://www.anbg.gov.au/glossary/croft.html
obtusifolia
http://www.worldwidewattle.com/speciesgallery/obtusifolia.php
longifolia
http://www.worldwidewattle.com/speciesgallery/longifolia.php
start small, if the phyllode tips confuse you between the species, simply focus on that until you understand, then move on.
I was going to expand, but refer to previous statements. What I will try to do is get you some photos from my plants which are beaning up nicely at the moment, just give me a bit of time, will try for days but could be much longer.
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It's really hard getting an ID from these photos, as well as with fairly minimal diagnostic features and a fairly vague mid north coast location, flowers can be quite important along with a heap of other things, there's really no free ride with Acacias, particularly with species of high similarity, it can often require quite detailed work in person, there's just too much with many of them that can't be expressed in general photos.
You are probably looking at all longifolia, except 1 which is probably stricta and 4 which is probably stricta or saligna. 6 has galls.
'For quite a while Ive been wondering what are the differences between Acacia Obtusifolia, Maidenii & Longifolia. Most photo i see all look the same so maybe someone with more knowledge could explain the subtle differences im missing.'
Just read the taxonomic descriptions, that'd be your best bet.
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it's not unheard of for the seed to rot away completely, though leathery coats can sometimes be found or dried out with the appearence of a cockroach egg, Sometimes when they rot you'll just get a fuzzy mushy mess, but at the same time they are very easy to lose in seedmix. I thought I lost one through rot, so reset the soil and layed down some cactus seed, now i've got a tube with a phleb up the side and cactus across the surface.
To be honest I cringed when i heard you cracked them with vice grips
Oh and you shouldn't have put warm/hot water on seed with a cracked coat, do one or the other, once you expose the embryo, it's all room temp water. Even the hot car was possibly a bit extreme.
Some Acacias won't even handle the hot water treatment due to lack of coat thickness, it's all context specific.
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Thanks for that TI, powermax is a strong possibility then given that at least a few councils in the melbourne area have bright blue dabber heads, I always assumed additional indicator dye like some councils do, but your explanation seems more fitting in this context.
hah you'd think people would be that intelligent, but you give society too much credit, it's not uncommon to see people picking highly indicated plants and even if verbally communicated it can be met with a shrug and continuance of activity. On top of that and the reverse, the indication on leafy plants can often dissapear/meld quite quickly which doesn't give much hope for people to realise what's occured in the area.
anyway I hate talking about this stuff, so will leave it at that :D have a good one fella.
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that second tip trout instantly reminded me of 'old ted's macro', a 'macrogonus' from a old fellas yard in melbourne, vic., it's hard to often get the right angle to communicate a specific feel it gives off, but your picture captured it well and is the feel/image of what I assosiciate with this clone i have.
Could get other shots if you're interested, these are some older ones.
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Don't be confused though from it's natural distribution in Victoria in eastern sections and coastal areas, southern vic populations of subsp. longifolia are thought to be introduced yet somewhat naturalised, while subsp. sophorae supposedly with a natural distribution that includes the southern coast, still contentious and not fully understood (like all native plants), outside of the trickier distribution debate locations, the melbourne bushland suburban stuff is considered introduced and on ground can generally be witnessed what the source infestation was, i.e. even if it turns out that sophorae or longifolia is indigenous to non coastal areas of melbourne (hypothetical!), the occurances in specific suburban spots are somewhat easily traced to planted populations, not indigenous regeneration. I'd be concerned if you saw eastern and coastal populations being bumped off.
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umm what are you talking about? what mistaken identity? They hit longifolia and floribuna, species not indigenous to the local ecology, did you not read the responses?
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It's weed control with blue indicator dye, longifolia and floribunda are not part of the local indigenous ecology. Any other blue turning up with no herbicide application or application with no indicator dye is the blue stain fungus which is quite common.
You are more than likely looking at melanoxylon in your backyard.
Some spray workers deliberately spray mushrooms, but it's not a targeted conspiricy, just a handful of opportunistic arrogant fucks, nine times out of ten if they are hit it's off target damage. Pink/Reds no dramas in communication, it's the people harvesting actives that have deliberate or off target damage with blue indicator dye that is a concern, i.e. people think it's natural staining.
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Look up Acacia Melanoxylon and make sure it isn't that.
Not to be a prick, but you may want to look it up yourself and see how silly a suggestion it is given the information provided.
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A big pat on the bum to you eth.
As you've seen, there's often far more going on underground than above.
imo it's best to germinate them in something that they will grow in for a longer period of time and can get their roots down deep without disturbance, but horticulturally anything is possible really and variety is the spice of life.
Hope they take well with the very young transplant, best of luck with it all.
I like your thinking with the cold pre-treatment, you naturalist you. Nearly called you a naturist by accident
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eltham worms.
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All hot h20 soaks, then planted to a light seed raising mix after removing all the larger bullshit barkchips (stop myself there from a big rant), keep it somewhat fluffy and don't compact it, it's quite easy for the seed to sit in a stagnant pocket and fuzz up with mold if soil is not appropriate, firmed down or kept too moist for too long.
Kept moist, but allowed to dry a little before heavy misting the tube top when needed. What didn't come up was dug up and I cut bits of the coat away with a very sharp pocket knife, I find it simple but am working with knives and delicate things all the time so second nature really, some people will probably cut their fingers off if not careful or damage the seed, but really such little force is needed, just be slow and steady.
So I guess to combine it all for better success,
A hot water soak, following by some coat removal of the softened coat (much easier than hard) then planting in an airy mix, then a bright warm spot, warm days cool nights no doubt beneficial.
If it sprouts out of soil and the seed coat doesn't shed i pinch the extreme tips firmly in an upward motion, if you do it correct you generaly will get the leathery coat to slip off 100% of the time without damaging any of the cotyledons etc.
I use a native blood and bone powdered fert when I see any need it, response is great and axilliary buds raring to go.
Attention to detail is really the key, I work on feeling these days I find it just guides me. No neo-hippy bullshit, but if you calm your mind, things really just open up and communicate, it's hard to describe.
Also no need to go gung ho, do a seed at a time or a small batch until you get it nailed.
edit: that coir is just a top dressing from an innoculant experiment, wasn't essential for their success.
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Phleb grow log
in Australian Native Plants
Posted · Edited by gerbil
beautiful eth, really healthy lookin', nice and thick stems with vigour.
I've found this quite insightful and try to read it somewhat regularly to re-interpret and solidy my understanding a bit better.
http://asgap.org.au/APOL1/mar96-2.html
I too have been quite scared of feeding natives, but often it's just been from the old message that natives don't need a feed which really is total bs that just keeps being parroted, that said I don't have a proper understanding of it all and of course there are no hard and fast rules as plants differ, even within a genus, like a lowland acacia in a nutrient rich floodplain on silts or heavy clays would react differently to say an alpine species in quite a mineralistic sandy soil.
I held off as long as I could, and seed to seed it differed. Without feeding (besides innoculant), I had one particular plant that grew much larger much quicker than the others and generally showed no need for a feed, whilst at the other spectrum one or many plants stayed small and showed signs of needing a feed quite early on.
Monitoring the cotyledons allowed me to see when each specific plant was chewing up it's reserves, with the drawing of Nitrogen from them and consequently turning them yellow, grouped with that or simply alone I noticed a slowing of growth and or complete stunting, with lack of stem thickness and a general redding of stems being present and distinct lack of axillary shoots / reluctance to produce axillary buds/shoots.
Don't confuse yellow cotyledons/lower phyllodes yellowing due to overwatering with need for feed though, generally that could be communicated by backing of the frequency and the yellowing would stop or slow and you could see vigour be reinstated.
I started small, with a general light sprinkling of the 'native blood and bone based 'protea' fertiliser' (I think it's called and it's a brown bag from memory) with just enough to cover the surface lightly which was watered in. I had these indoors and did notice the surface start to fuzz up with fungal issues, presumably from them being indoors with lack of airflow, I rectified this by simply lightly digging/fluffing the surface to avoid a stagnant surface crust and the fuzz and smell went away in a day or so.
I plan on doing some experimenting with other species that I can afford to lose, and see how far I can push things at different ages with normal blood and bone and the native blood and bone, and then apply it slowly to species which I have relatively limited seed supply of.
I did apply a mycorrhizal innoculant early on and before their first feed, but even then I felt that small amounts of additional nitrogen would potentially aid the development of the nodules and or simply feed the plant until nodules where better established, I could be talking bollocks on that though. I do plan to reinoculate upon potting on, and will still be fertilising with the native blood and bone on a gradual basis, with less rather than more.
So I simply started small and saw they reacted really well, so next time I had more confidence and upped it a little, but still only about a small flat teaspoon max per tube (if that!), and generally only when I saw a slow in growth. They are due for another feed and this will be their 3rd feed I think.
Your pots are really big for their size, so be careful not to overwater as it will be very easy to do so and can be easily confused as nutrient issues which it's related to, but not a sign to feed.
Don't be afaid to let them dry out a bit, although i've heard alot about how they don't like to dry out much, i've let mine go to somewhat floppy phyllodes at stages, but have rectified it very quickly; as long as there was a little moisture in their base I was fairly content and no dramas with them yet.
I still prefer to underwater than overwater, and under feed than overfeed, can always up things, but can't really take back whats been put out.
Thanks for the update
Khala they aren't really in trouble, it's a common misunderstand/misinterpretation, they are isolated and have pressures put on them, but not something that really needs humans to come and save the day, if anything we will just make it worse. My goal is more so just to have these available in backyard circulation so you don't get every man and their dog 'needing' to go and visit them, fungal transfers would be my major concern in regards to population decline, I think people get a bit ahead of themselves and feel the need to visit them just because they've read about them once or twice, I find it funny people would 'need' to go see them when they probably haven't even had a walk in their local bushland areas.
Not that seed isn't available, but I urge people who don't really have any experience in growing plants especially acacias, to get their protocol down with highly abundant species and then request seed of such species. I'm not thinking badly on anyone, but I find it frustrating that people who gave out the seed often requested (but not all the time!) people who knew what they were doing to only request it, but it seems a heap of people snagged them and then asked how to germinate them, again no ill feelings or anything like that towards anyone, experience is great and so it attempting things, I just found it all a bit odd.