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paradox

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Posts posted by paradox

  1. Posted

    I'm a bit confused what you just said..

     

    did you mean I pertain to this dumbass hipster forum? If so then you pertain to it just as much as I do & it wasn't always a dumbass hipster forum.. that started pretty recently along with the generally mediocre level of discussion similar to the kind I am dissing you for.

     

    or are you saying that I am a hipster forum dumbass? If so then what is the relevance of the word 'pertain' in that sentence?

  3. Posted · Edited by paradox

    I'm not trying to save the world either.  I'm basically arguing against misguidedly trying to save the world.  If you read a few posts other than your own you'd save yourself so much time bruh 

     

    edit: & I never said you were riteous at all, (bored makes sense though ;) I was explaining in lamens terms the basic topic of conversation I've been involved in this thread (ie if you tell off strangers because they aren't the same as you in the name of saving the world, are you really helping or are you just being a cunt? in my opinion it's actually a complex question. Nothing at all to do with you) I have not once until yesterday referred to a single thing you've said in this thread. We have been having totally different conversations mostly with totally different people. I'm just pointing out that you are stuck in your own tiny echo chamber & don't seem to pay attention to anything but your own thoughts. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but you keep proving my point so well :P

     

    obviously you don't really care man, you're just bored, I get it.. but bored people are the most boring thing.. maybe it wouldn't be so boring if you actually cared about having a half interesting conversation & perhaps occasionally reading the threads you're commenting in. You only get out what you put in & all that

    • Like 1

  4. Posted · Edited by paradox

    5 hours ago, DualWieldRake said:

    (points to you)

     

    Me?

     

    im not agreeing or disagreeing with your point, you may well have a worthwhile point but I haven't said anything about climate change in this thread. I've been involved in a completely seperate concurrent discussion about the philosophical implications of hypocrites verbally abusing strangers because they have a different perspective.

     

    ie are you saving the world or just being a self riotous cunt? A difficult conundrum 

    • Like 2

  10. Posted

    ^ this reply was written before I saw your last post crop, so I will up date it by saying I appreciate you addressing some of what I was talking about in your last post, I honestly do..

     

    i agree with with a lot of what you said.  I think it is true that we need to stand up for what we feel is right & I ultimately if everyone is doing that then some kind of balance may be achieved.  I meant it earlier when I said we most likely agree on most points.

     

    i brought up sharia because Islam was on my mind the other day being here in Krabi. I only bring it up to make a point about how to know where a certain line is.. how do you personally determine who to 'tell off' on the street? I mean to highlight this because it actually is one of the big philosophical conundrums in human life.  

     

    Where is the line & how do you determine what is good & just as opposed to what is infringing upon someone's freedom of choice, freedom of religion, thought, culture or personal expression?  This is not even close to being as simple as it might seem. 

     

    I think sharia is a pertinent topic to use to make this point, as there are certain tenets within it that could be said to be pretty broadly questionable by many people.. which is a way to simply highlight a philosophical point.

     

    how does say, a feminist determine when it is good & just to 'tell off' a man for believing that a woman's opinion is worth less than a man? If that man happens to be a Muslim whom believes in sharia is it good & just for her to do so or is she infringing on his religious freedom &/or being intolerant of his specific cultural values?

     

    you see what I'm saying? Sharia is not the point, it was just on my mind & it's just a fairly clear vehicle  to bring attention to what I see is the entire philosophical point of this conversation & the reason I ever thought it's worth discussing.

     

    this is a difficult question that I don't think we should take so lightly.. it really is deeeeep one! & incredibly important to consider before we go throwing our weight around.. & im not even saying someone is definitely wrong to tell off someone if they see fit.. but if we don't consider this question at a deeper level I think we run a real risk that what we assume is a positive action may not be so at all..

  11. Posted

    Ego is a real slippery thing. I wouldn't presume that ego is your motivation to do the work you do, I couldn't possibly have any real insight into that as I know next to nothing about your life, all I know about you is these few posts. you'll have to forgive us for noticing that your attitude in this discussion is oozing with ego.. 

     

    i also can't pretend for a moment that my ego isn't a big part of why I'm getting involved in this.. this is just a intrinsic part of the human condition & it's best we are simply honest about it.

     

    absolutely my ego is coming into this discussion but I am at least trying to have a fair & reasonable discussion & address the philosophical implications of the topic at hand.  

     

    Perhaps my ego is blinding me? But you appear to be avoiding actually dissecting & explaining your position so we can understand it in a reasonable way & refuse to address the elephants in the room.  Again, perhaps my ego is blinding me but it comes accross as though you have superiority complex.. which I personally wouldn't mind if you would actually make a case for your position rather than simply using snarky ad hominem attacks to avoid the discussion as though you feel you are so right your position doesn't need to make sense or stand up to reasonable criticism 

     

     

  14. Posted

    1 minute ago, Crop said:

    Mate, so much assumption, where to start, Thailand is overwhelmingly Buddhist not Islamic, and being gay is certainly tolerated. Mate it's probably a simple matter of Thailand being one of the, if not the, best and cheapest places in the world to get either surgery or medicine that caters for lady-boys particular needs.Of cause I think anyone that witnesses bigoted intolerance of gays should stand-up and help. Yet why do you single out Muslims, you do realise the Christian bible is also anti-gay? You do realise being anti-Muslim is also bigotry?

     

    you are speaking BS bro, i'm not assuming anything, what are you talking about?  i know very well the religious demographics of this country, right now i'm in krabi province which is predominantly islamic but what on earth has that got to do with what i'm saying?   

     

    i'm not anti muslim in the least.  you aren't saying anything dude.  Arguing that i am in any way an anti muslim bigot is the most convoluted contention, where are you pulling that from?  I will stand up for the rights of muslims to believe anything they like as much as i would stand for the freedom of my own thoughts & yours.  i strive to be as consistent as i can possibly manage in my feelings about individual rights.  what i am trying to understand is why it appears that you yourself are so inconsistent?  Please, if it's possible can you address my point?  the last thing i am saying is that muslims should be told off for their beliefs about anything.  if you have noticed i have been consistently arguing that i fundamentally think that is wrong.  What i am asking you is why you think that telling off strangers for how they bring up their own children is saving the world but you believe telling off someone who believes that gays deserve to die is bigotry?  do you get my point man?  i honestly want to consider your point in a mature & intelligent way but these kind of blatant inconsistencies make it really difficult to take seriously.  If at all possible can you please explain it without resorting to obviously baseless accusations about things i didn't even remotely come close to saying?

     

    i never said thailand wasn't tolerant of gays, i said islam is intolerant of gays.  It's not some kind of profound secret, it's common knowledge that in sharia, homosexuality is illegal & often punished with death.  why would you make any assumption about what i do or don't feel about Christianity?  i fundamentally disagree with many of the basic principles of all the major religions but i will stand for the rights of any of their followers to believe anything they please any day of the week. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

  15. Posted · Edited by paradox
    tagging because this thread has multiple simaltaneous convos going on

    Actually that bit of information has really burst my bubble :( that's actually so sad.. that's why there is so many lady boys in Thailand, because being gay is not tolerated  at all but being trans is 'ok.'  so even if you don't remotely identify as female, if you are gay it's just so much easier & so much less risky as a lifestyle to be a lady boy.

     

    so @Crop, I guess the obvious question in the context of this conversation is do you think everyone should be 'telling off' every Muslim they see for their horribly bigoted intolerance of gays? & if not then why? are people who smoke around their children worse than people who's belief system advocates death to gay people? What gives?

  16. Posted · Edited by paradox
    tagging

    @Crop I said you were ignorant if you think there is no one who is ignorant in this world. Nothing to do with ladyboys.  I can't lie man, i think that is incredibly ignorant, i'm not just trying to insult you if thats what you think, i'm not 'judging you' as ignorant, i'm stating that your comment seemed ignorant to me.  i never said you were close minded.

     

    & no I'm not reluctant at all to tolerate someone who does not agree with me. I think it is act of love & a truly positive & beautiful notion to agree to disagree with someone after you have tried hard & failed to see eye to eye on a particular topic.  As i said it is not a reluctant move whatsoever.  I don't think i have a single friend whom shares my opinion of half of all topics & i love that, i like to be challenged in my thinking & i love to love another human being regardless of their opinions on most topics.  I love! a good discussion & as long as we don't lose our shit & have it descend into total insanity then it's all the better if you have different opinions, that's just one reason why I think it's important to be tolerant of different views of reality.  So that a real discussion is possible at all..
     

    my views on humanity in many ways are similar to my understanding of ecology, the analogy is that biodiversity of ideas is a strength & species which learn to coexist with as many other species as possible tend to do much better than those that don't & in the long run this leads to a greater more stable ecosystem in the long term.

     

    That's really interesting what you said about the ayatollah speaking on transgenderism, it really informs me of something that I have been thinking about recently..  that's cool but at the same time it's deeply sad.. it's like a loophole in the bigortry of fundamentalist Islamic ideology.  If you are gay you get the chop but if you identify as a woman you slip through the cracks.. either way is all very interesting.. like most things that are interesting it doesn't fit neatly into some easy to digest category, it's complicated & fucked up & wonderful all at the same time.

  17. Posted

    Really, I feel the way lies somewhere right in the middle of what each of us are saying.. I agree with part of what you are saying, I'm making an opposing point as I feel what you are saying is tipped toward an end of a spectrum that can be dangerous, just as the other end of that spectrum is equally dangerous.

     

    i agree we should listen very carefully to what others feel is important & we should be respected to analyse what they are saying on our own terms & decide for ourselves how we feel about each other's opinions. It's called mutual respect.  Where it gets shit in my opinion & is when people simply cannot accept when the other persons intellect or lack thereof comes to an opposing viewpoint & that person or regimen feels the need to enforce their views regardless.  To me this is equally as insidious to me as the opposing ignorance you  speak of.

     

    yes, the right path lies somewhere in the middle & that's what I personally strive for.. but we live in an imperfect world. An intrinsically dualistic world. To not understand this & live accordingly is truly ignorant.

    • Like 1

  18. Posted

    8 hours ago, Crop said:

    I thought there is no one in this day and age that ignorant. 

     

    Sorry brother but the only point you are proving here if that was the case is that you yourself a really rather ignorant. It's just my perspective but I can't see how anyone would or could ever come to that conclusion but maybe you only talk to people with the same opinions as you?

     

    & yeah I'm pretty sure there is a strong consensus that smoking with kids on your lap isn't the best thing to be doing, either way in my opinion I kind of feel that anecdote was drawing a needlessly convoluted correlation & didn't nessecarily make your point all that well, at least in terms of what I feel we are discussing but again that too could be very subjective.

    • Like 1

  19. Posted

    8 hours ago, Crop said:

    Mate I respect that you are willing to compromise, but I really hate this phrase. 

     

    Good thing I wouldn't be so petty as to base the content of my posts on whether someone hates certain phrases then.  You see, we're all different, some people won't mind that phrase, others might hate it, that's the beauty of a (supposedly) free society, how you feel about what I say is your responsibility not mine.  Sure I think common decency should be observed but the fact still remains.

     

    i said that simply for the fact that we clearly have different perspectives & the back & forth was just dragging on, I can't foresee any of your points changing my view in any way as I think you are in some ways ignorant in a way that I just don't have respect for (I still very much have respect for you simply as a fellow human being) & vice versa & you know, I think that's fine, I think that's great, I ultimately love to live in a culture where totally different opinions can coexist. It makes me feel all warm inside actually.

     

    & herein lies my issue with what you are saying.. your dislike for that phrase is consistent with what seems to be your whole point in this thread, you seem to be intolerant of people with opposing views on reality to you & feel it's your duty to enforce your subjective views on others, so of course the idea that we should agree to disagree is abhorrent to you.  I happen to feel the exact opposite way.

     

    honestly, just yesterday I was having a conversation that is really pertinent to this point.  I'm in Thailand right now & on the Main Street just down from where we are staying there is a huge mosque with a constant throng of muslims coming in & out, literally straight across the road there is a happy ending massage parlour & you often see totally dolled up ladyboys walking this street passing by the mosque.

     

    what are these people doing if not agreeing to disagree?  How is this not a beautiful thing & a clear sign of a wonderfully healthy, thriving & diverse culture? 

     

    Would you feel

    more comfortable if sharia law were being inflicted on the Muslims next door neighbours & people were being lynched?

     

    seriously, please explain to me how this cultural reality i just described is in any way a bad thing?

    • Like 1

  20. Posted · Edited by paradox

    I guess we'll just agree to disagree even though we don't disagree on all these points.. just looking from different angles.

     

    Why are you so confident you can judge the results of your actions so accurately at all? What if the child in your drowning scenario grew up to be an evil mass murdering dictator? This is the thing with this self riteous behaviour, it ignorantly assumes that you have accurately calculated the true nature of reality & you alone are in possession of the truth & therefore are justified in any actions you see fit to enforce your views on others. I tend to feel reality is a little or a lot more nuanced than that.  

     

    Not to say it's wrong to save a child no matter the situation but it's wrong to unquestioningly assume that that action will inherently lead to the most favourable outcomes as a result of the infinite flow on effect of results that are affected by that action ie the butterfly effect. How do you even accurately determine what 'favourable' even means?  I think it's foolish to have that kind of confidence in something the human mind is simply incapable of determining.  If your instinct is to save the child then you should go with it, most of us would, I wouldn't over think it.. same goes if you think it's cool to tell off strangers if you think they are ignorant, if you get slapped then so be it.  

     

    I try hard not to be ignorant & harm innocent people.. I try hard to live in a way that I determine, within reason, to be as ethical as possible.. i try hard to take responsibility for my place among all living things in this beautiful sensitive ecosystem & if a stranger angrily told me off about how I choose to bring up my child I might well slap them & I believe in the right of all others to determine for themselves what they deem to be right for them & theirs because I would never assume I am solely in possession of the truth.

     

    'helping others' is exactly the kind of game the ego plays to prop up its self serving delusions & This is a truly rampant disorder of our times which has infected almost every one of us. Maybe I'm cynical but I tend to think that the majority of the preacher types fit this category. This is not even necessarily a judgmental position, rather a recognition of one of the inherent ills of humanity in general.

     

    Hate to go on about it but your connecting any of this to the civil rights movement honestly makes no sense whatsoever. 

     

    Have a good one brother

     

    edit: I don't want to argue the point too much, I do see some of the points you are making crop, I just don't totally agree with your take on all of it, we probably agree on more things than not at the end of the day though..

     

    the original point I made is simply about hypocrisy & I don't think the issue is all that simple.. some things are just obviously a bad idea, like perhaps smoking with a kid on your lap or throwing a pile of garbage in a river. some are a lot more subjective.

    • Like 2

  22. Posted · Edited by paradox

    10 hours ago, Crop said:

    Mate the hypocrites in the smoking anecdote still managed to enact positive social change.

     

    Did they though?  Or did they just make some ignorant person think they were a cnut?

     

    edit: I'd also say they aren't nessecarily hypocrites, they are against smoking with kids on their laps which they obviously don't do themselves.  What I do wonder is if those people think that they don't also engage in behaviour which others find reprehensible.. do they think you are so beyond fault that it's ok to abuse strangers? In that regard then I think they may well be hypocrites.. why shouldn't they also be abused by any stranger that disagrees with how they live their life?

     

    but it I think the real issue here is the same issue you raised. Selfishness. My intuition screams at me that the majority of those kind of situations, the person doing the telling off is doing little more then stroking their ego & painting a picture of themselves as so much better & unlike all those other ignorant fools that are destroying the earth.  In their mind they are the ones saving the planet & making the world a better place.

     

    its a complex thing in my opinion, of course I understand your point but I really think that actions are only as valuable as the state of consciousness behind them. I feel this is an extremely important point & I feel the arrogance & ego that often accompany situations like your smoking anecdote does not enact positive social change at all & it's actually the contrary.  For that reason I disagree that it's still important & positive for hypocrites to throw their weight around in service of the greater good.. if I felt like action from that state of mind actually served the greater good then I would agree with you but I don't 

     

     

     

     

  23. Posted

    27 minutes ago, Crop said:

    Mate you seemed to miss the whole point of the smoker anecdote. 

     

    I'm not an advocate of smoking with kids on your lap but where I come from you'd get slapped if you tried to tell off a stranger about how they bring up their kids.  I don't think smoking around kids is cool but I also don't think that reaction would be unreasonable.

     

    either way I definitely missed the 'civil rights activists were hypocrites' point..

  24. Posted

    Lobbying for positive change isn't a bad thing. My point is that if the people preaching are hypocrites that use shame as a their primary tactic then any apparent progress is most likely empty & illusionary.  

     

    like this current first world pc disorder that bardo is talking about.. it seems to me the pc keyboard warrior activists are so busy patting themselves on the back & agreeing with each other they have absolutely no clue of the shitstorm of reactivity they are inciting.  All the while they are convinced they are saving the world because they never talk to anyone with a different opinion to themselves.

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