Crop

At the end of the day the police do not work for the festival organiser, even if he has to pay to have them there. They are public servants. If it is the police themselves. Not one of the organisers staff, who may be standing with them, that are turning people away? Then civil rights lawyers should have something to work with. It gets a little trickier if they are not turning them away from the event itself, rather from a public park.

Mate you do have to identify your self, but I can;t see why this would be illegal. If nothing else it would increase the ratio of false positives, which should help the cause in the long run.

Mate many of the people involved in the civil rights movement may well of been hypocrites, egotists and corrupt, but decades latter people are still benefiting from their work.

Mate that's a good question. At the very least they removed the immediate threat. How they live their lives is none of anybody else's business, unless off course, the way they live their life is harming others. For me personally, I draw the line at harming others that can't defend them selves. I don't think it particularly matters whether they are alive yet or not. Take a pregnant woman drinking alcohol at a party. Everyone at that party knows she is harming her baby. In the U.S. there has already been several court cases where children have sued their mothers for just that. Why is it wrong for her friends, or anyone else for that matter, to stop her before the fetus is damaged Yep there is no doubt we have all met one of these. The environmental movement in particular, has more than it's far share of the self righteous. Annoying as they are, it dose not change the truth of the message. Mate I don't think too many people put them selves out there, to help others, because of ego. It's such a thankless task. You said your self, you could get slapped, or worse. It's far easier to give money to charity then constantly bring it up in conversation. Most charities now give little mementos specifically to cater for these people. Guilt is a far more lightly motivator. I would like to agree with you here. Unfortunately the world I live in is not so idyllic. Actions are judged by the results they bring. Take 2 men at the beach. The first is genuinely good bloke. The second a vein, narcissist, who can't stop kissing his mirror. Out in the ocean a child is drowning. Of course the good bloke jumps straight in, but alas he can't swim and flounders around useless. It takes a while but eventually the narcissist realises saving a kid could make him famous, so off he goes to earn his place on Oprah. Is the good blokes actions really more valuable than the narcissists?

Mate the hypocrites in the smoking anecdote still managed to enact positive social change. The point was that being a hypocrite is not a good enough excuse not to try and make change. In my opinion neither is getting slapped.

Mate not sure how to respond, but I will try. Do you really think it is fascist to speak up for a child being poisoned? Please look up the definition of normal. It's unfortunate this cliche is so rarely used in the right context. Mate I don't live in the first world. Nor do the people in the example you quote. Do you really think problems like these only occur in the first world? I'm a bit stumped by the rise of the extreme right in western culture. So many people suffering from insular selfishness. Most of them are educated enough to know their actions harm others, yet they insist on this delusion 'it is none of other peoples business'. On the contrary it is not only everyone's business, it's their responsibility. A responsibility that, at least when in relation to children in Australia, is mandated by law. Personally I think as long as your not hurting others you can do anything you like, but that's not what we are talking about here. I agree here, however I was talking racist jokes, which implies malice. Never the less I am yet to meet a racist that admits to being one, even Hitler thought he was the good guy. I also agree that pc goes to far. Unfortunately there are some people which continually say things which hurt others. They don't seem to have enough common sense to filter them selves. Like most rules and regulations, they are always made for the dumbest person in the room.

Mate you seemed to miss the whole point of the smoker anecdote.

Mate I get what your saying. There's no doubt greedy vendors have already contributed to the banning of so many plants. I think the real problem though is the attention it brings. Naming and shaming or worse, reporting is a good way to fast track that attention. It's all about discretion.

I wonder which one owned the laptop.

Hi carbon, great name.

Mate thanks for your perspective. This is a question I have been grappling with for sometime. In my youth I was a professional hunter, latter I went pacifist and vego. However the extremism of many of my vego friends made me uncomfortable, so I started researching their arguments. I was surprised to find most of the claims do not stand up to even rudimentary, open minded, scrutiny. It's ironic the 'not feeling pain like we do' argument was used, not that long ago, to justify eating animals and is still used today to justify the consumption of seafood. It relies on a lot of assumptions and prays on our inherent discrimination, that instinct of ours to favour things that are similar to ourselves. This, of course is the best reason of all, good on ya for listening to it.

Sorry mate this is way off topic but I'm very curious. Please don't get offended, I respect what you are trying to do. However how is this not discrimination? Some plants have been shown to respond to predation by producing defensive chemicals. They have even been shown to release pheromones which warn their neighbours, so they can build up chemical defences before the vicious vegetarian even gets to them. Doesn't this at least show the plant does not want to be eaten? Perhaps even, it has a sense of community, empathy for it's neighbours? My question is ethically, how is tearing such a plant apart to make a salad, any different to shooting Bambi?

I get what your saying, but I'm not sure I agree. Off cause you can't be a hypocrite and yes people don't like being preached to. Isn't that why it works? The very successful civil rights movement was based on it. One person preaching is annoying, but when the converted start preaching it becomes so uncomfortable that social change occurs. Look at smoking. When I was growing up, smoking with a child sitting on your lap was normal. Yet this week alone, I have watched 2 different smokers tell others off for doing just that. Are they hypocrites? Probably, but that doesn't change the fact they stopped someone from poisoning a child. Racism is another good example. In some social groups where no one speaks up, racist jokes persist, while in other circles they would not be tolerated. I have know doubt looking in the mirror is the first step in making the world a better place. However given the alarming trend towards selfishness, I think lobbying others may be more important today than ever before.

yeh mate got mine too, thanks again.

I'm not sure what your argument actually is? I don't think that the existence of suffering (as a consequence of rape) constitutes an argument against determinism. Hi EightySeven, please correct me if i'm wrong. The way I understand determinism is that there is no free will, that everything essentially boils down too cause and effect. I understand how a certain upbringing, can cause someone to look on others, in a way that brings about the potential for rape. However do you really believe a rapist has no say in the matter, that they are not responsible for their actions, because those actions where inevitable?

Hi Thelma, why these particular critters? Many people go vego for either health or ethical reasons. If it's health, wouldn't prawns be excluded. They have a very high cholesterol levels. Not to mention, like most bottom feeders, they are known to accumulate toxins, such as PCB's and dioxins. I personally think much of the ethical augment is flawed. Never the less, wouldn't the high intelligence of cephalopods rule them out?

An environmental weed, but interesting insect control.

Good stuff Moose, the bigger peak seems to be sunset, also interesting how they relate dmt production to uv.

Great thread, good to see everyone sharing. I don't get much spare time. I work long hours with at risk youth, but a lot of my work involves camping, hunting, fishing, gardening and music. Have been getting into a bit of film making lately. When I'm not at work I like to either get in the garden or out on the water. My favorite hunting at the moment is spear fishing. It's like starting over, with a whole new range of species you need to learn. I've pretty much got the hang of the easy stuff like barra, parrots, or coral trout. It usually only takes about 10 min's in the water to get a feed. I got a way to go with things like mangrove jacks. I can ambush them, but their so!! hard to stalk.

Mate I can't get that image out of my head now.

Used to do this every wet season back when I lived on the mainland. I have a friend that owns a buffalo farm,. He lets us collect a ute full of poo, which we spread under fruit trees. Trees with branches that hang right down are best for mushys as they hold more stable humidity. Another mate does this on a small scale in pots on his veranda. Blue meanies for breaky anybody?

As for fb, I'm with zelly on that one, and it's a given that there is no confidentiality. I have looked on the site a couple of times, there is some talk about illegal stuff. I might be paranoid but some of it smells like entrapment. It's not enough to not talk about illegal stuff, just being associated with this kind of thing can be a problem for some people.

Great thread, we had a cyclone here as well. I lost 3 brig's a Meted Wax, a Kai and a Sina. The Wax was discolored all season, so no surprise there but the other 2 dropped on the same day. A bit of discolour on some pach's, not much, peru's just grew insanely fast. If they won't flower in the tropics, its going to be a bit hard to breed for tolerance, but we can still select.