whitewind

I had a dream. I was the pure embodiment of this creature. It was, in our terms, pure evil. It was, very disturbing. I think animals MOST LIKELY fully embody themselves, and it takes a special human imagination to imagine being something else. The better you are at it, the more intelligent you become. The flipside is, of course, that we distance ourselves from embodying ourselves, our own bodies. Which is why we have a disconnect from nature. .

Note that the sequence of events as explained in genesis runs in exactly the same way that the sequence of events occurred as we understand it. That's the crucial point here. If you take out a creator being from the story, it makes sense. But, without scientific knowledge of astronomy, physics, geology and biology, how would you come up with that sequence by accident? The timescale is out, of course, and the "creator being" of the universe is somewhat negotiable, but I noticed in one of the texts I read there were two different words used for the creator "god" of the first 5 events and the "lord" mentioned in the more personal stories of interaction with human beings. So "God" is the superbeing that created the universe, but the "lord" is the somewhat flawed being (or group of beings overseen by a great one) who is there in the very early days while humans started civilisation, where initially they were created, first male, then female, but unable to breed without the intervention of the "lord". Later on the humans negotiated marriage and parenthood and began to choose their own partners. It is there in Genesis, which comes from even older Sumerian and Phoenecian texts.

Lol. That is one posited theory. Not very well backed up by mythology. I'm going more with the gods as aliens with super tech theory, there are serious hints in the creation myths* that sounds like primitives trying to describe genetic manipulation technology that they don't understand. See those ancient texts as a kind of twitter, simple sentences from people who don't understand what they are talking about. Try it yourself. You have 30 sentences of no more than 30 words to describe the scientific point of view of the following sequence of events.** 1. The creation of the universe 2. The formation of the solar system 3. The formation of the Earth's crust, and oceans 4. The evolution of plants 5. The evolution of animals 6. The evolution of humans Then go and compare your results to Genesis chapter 1. *creation myths of human origins ** note that creation myths can be divided into two main events, the creation of the universe, and the creation of humans.

Mmm. That's a common perception I think, when I was growing up the religious context was certainly that humans were above animals, and that animals and plants were there for us to use. There was no guidance as to how. I think that, unless you know a bit about living systems that kind of thinking will prevail "we are more intelligent" just feeds into that. Many animals do exhibit higher forms of intelligence, and the fact that people do not perceive that is a failing on our part, not theirs. Animals can have a deleterious affect on the environment, think of the feral cat in Australia, or the cane toad. Ecosystems tend to achieve a kind of balance over time, an intact and stable ecosystem is called something specific I can't remember the name of. Usually when it's out of place. This leads me to believe the possibility that humans may not be entirely natural, they may have been genetically manipulated. It seems strange to me that humans were around for at least 200,000 years and (apparently) did not develop the ability to do the damage we have. What happened since the last ice age that made us different? What happened to allow a massive expansion of agriculture and technology so fast - especially since it apparently emerged from a hostile, resource poor environment like the desert, yet didn't occur before despite the conditions being hostile and resource poor? Did we have this ability and time has erased the evidence? I digress. Our "higher forms of intelligence" are defined by us and relate entirely to us. Other forms of intelligence are mocked or ignored. Our respect for that which sustains us is minimal, because we don't know enough about it. Advanced tool use without knowledge is highly dangerous, and without respect for our environment will kill us. We are an anomaly of sorts, not a "higher being" and our arrogance will bring us down, unless we learn humility fast. Even if we are manipulated, genetically, we are still closely related to other primates which makes us animals, nothing more. The fact that genuine intelligence seems so sporadic and isolated makes me think that we are a poorly evolved species, with intelligence not just being learned but also inherent. Some people cannot be educated. Some are genuinely smart, without formal education. They learn it themselves. Realistically, we are all over the shop. Art, engineering, breeding, building, numbers, autism, empathy. Some with, some without. Most are just drones

They might be somewhat self aware, but they don't have much understanding. The kids, that is. It is obvious we are animals, we are biological and we fit into the family tree of this planet really rather obviously. Whether we developed our particular intelligence through alien intervention or through evolution is debatable. But the fact that we are animals is not.

This topic has gone wildly off the mark and I think I'm over it anyway, there's a lot of people here who aren't listening to hard. I'll just re-iterate, these men are still Australian citizens so they should abide by our rules. If they have broken them there are various punishments that can be in place. But they should not have their citizenship revoked. It's still a shame that the refugees fleeing that type of behaviour aren't always given the same rights. Remember to bring your refugees in by plane. For some reason that's still acceptable practice.

It's actually not taken out of context it was literary translation. But perhaps not relevant to this discussion. Anyway, I can't actually find what I wanted to post, which was a discussion by a relatively famous Islamic woman living now in the US who has studied and lived Islam and has come to the conclusion that some of the biggest problems with it is that it is apparently unable to separate church and state on any level, and her discussions are quite fascinating and very worrying. It explains why Islam hasn't changed much over the centuries. She had to leave the Middle East, she has a death sentence on her head too. And she is angry with the left-wing of politics (such as it is in the US) because it refuses to challenge Islamic fundamentalism where it tends to go up against Christianity on a regular basis, for reasons that should be translated across religions. I'll find it if I'm meant to.

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I often see a massive reaction against Nazi groups from left-wing people, myself included. However, what I see is a whole bunch of similar type thinkers - bigots and racists and women haters - who hide behind the banner of "religion" which also supports these ideals. Blinkers off, I don't see a lot of difference apart from the labels.

I am female actually.

Stop being so rude. You are asking highly personal questions of a sensitive nature on what are supposed to be relatively anonymous forums. Suffice to say I know someone who is a refugee here in Sydney, a girl from Iran who was helped escape after suffering death threats from her family, kicked out and was on the streets for several years selling her body for a living because she couldn't get work elsewhere. There is another LBGT women trying to get out of the same country who is in exactly the same situation. They can often escape via other adjacent countries who are less intolerant but still very unsafe, and make their way here. It often takes months or years for women with no source of income other than sex. Whatever you think, although it is not perfect here in relatively secular christian countries, it is a fuck site safer and more pleasant than a lot of Islamic countries, even the most "tolerant" ones. EDITED to avoid implication

So, the current Bangladeshi government isn't properly recognised by many of it's own political parties or by international observers. And it's the parliament that elects the president. So, a fair bit of corruption there, despite an attempt to be democratic and even seats put aside for female candidates, it doesn't sound like a bastion of secular democracy to me. I mean, it does feel that secularism and democracy has a good handhold in majority christian countries, whereas this is not to be said for most Islamic states. We are talking about today's state of affairs, yes, christianity has done some horrors in the past, but it seems to be calmish right now. It worries me that the fundies will be stirred up a bit by the fundies in other religions. Seriously, it seems you have to be constantly alert for these things. Not just yawn and say not to worry. Well, I'm on the wrong side of most major religions so yes, I do worry. Just because you have your head in the sand and probably wouldn't fare too badly in a fascist patriarchal society doesn't mean that others would. Think about other people a bit please before you snarkily point out that just because you don't believe it that it means it can't or won't happen here.

http://rt.com/news/263189-facebook-messenger-location-data/ 'Marauders Map': App exposes ease of tracking Facebook Messenger users If you value privacy, you may want to think twice before using Facebook Messenger. A new extension for Chrome has revealed just how much location data is shared through the app – and it's enough to track someone down with almost perfect accuracy. The extension - called the 'Marauder's Map,' after the magical map in Harry Potter – pinpoints the locations of a person's Facebook friends. It allows a person to track their movements, learning about their routines and weekly schedules. Though some may view the information as useful, others think it is downright creepy, as it hands over a person's movements on a silver platter to any potential stalkers. Khanna developed the extension after noticing that Facebook Messenger locations had more than five decimal points of precision – meaning the sender's location was pinpointed within three feet (one meter) of accuracy. By testing his map on a group of Facebook friends who posted on chat at least once a day, Khanna realized he could see where one of them lived – even down to the exact location of his dorm room. After chatting frequently to one friend, he discovered he could track the friend's hourly movements. The person's location history was mapped out at the end of the day. Taking it up another notch, Khanna realized he could do the same thing for those who weren't his friends on Facebook. For example, he could track the locations of people taking part in a large group message, which was created to organize poker games. Indeed.

Actually, I have come out to my family and they haven't been easy about it. Lucky I wasn't a teen and thrown out on to the street. There is other stuff. Lifelong abuse is something I appreciate a great deal and something which is pretty bloody awful. But I can only imagine how much worse it would be if there was no-one you could talk to about it, and if you tried to be yourself the fear of being killed for doing so. Falling in love with someone you know could get you both killed. Being raped, and being terrified of telling someone because the chances are they will have you killed for being unfaithful. The sheer, constant fear of being in an abusive society that is so inimical to your own wellbeing that it is almost impossible to speak out against because doing so may result in maiming or death. Lifelong abuse is a form of torture. It is worth fighting against. But facing death isn't so easy. Even facing death by your own hands. Should I commit suicide because I am gay and face lifelong abuse? I've been there. The only reason I didn't is because I am scared of physical pain. Scared I might be making a mistake, scared that there might be hope yet and I don't know it. When I was younger, I was terrified of HELL. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that terror. That terror of something even more awful than what I was already suffering, kept me suffering. A form of emotional torture that can only be imagined by those who suffer the same. So yeah, I know the effects of long term abuse, know suicide very well (I've recently had an attempt by someone very close to me, and 3 other friends of friends have actually done it within the last 6 months, as well as attempting it myself). Abusive societies must be stopped. I will oppose them in the best way I can, if that amounts to arguing on an internet forum for the most part, then so be it.

What is worse than torture and death? Just curious..