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superfast peyote

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shin:

rather impressive i thought.

I nearly fell off my chair when I saw it. I want one!

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Me tooooo! pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsispereskiopsis

pereskiopsispereskiopsis :P

whoo whoooo whoooo whoooo whooooooo! :D

[ 26. September 2003, 01:32: Message edited by: Torsten ]

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i have some cactii like this one but it has longish spines,and another similar plant that seems to be a climber.have given my spares away,but i'll propagate more if theres an interest.

i think the name was similar to that mentioned but shorter,ah think i just found it,pereskia.

i have read that pereskia and pereskiopsis are the only kinds of cactii with leaves.i think i grew mine from seed,large attractive flowers,though the parents have now died from root rot i think.mine must be about 1.5 metres after about 4 or 5 years,looses its leaves in winter.the parent plants were quite big,at least 2 metres high and bushy too.

t s t .

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Guest d0tb0y

I am looking for Pereskiopsis spp. seeds, if anyone has any, or is ordering any from US or whatever, please pm me so i can pitch in.

d.

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I don't think there is anything special with this graft in terms of how fast it has grown.

I have had the same rate of growth with a pachanois graft. Bear in mind the peyote pictured is most probably a caespitosa variation which obviously produces pups very quickly.

graft2.JPG

This was mine after 6 months

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mesq, how old/big was it before the graft?

looks great.

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About the size of a 10c coin. Alas that graft was lost due to carelessness on my behalf and I found it rotting away because I left it outside and it got too cold :( oh well I have already grafted one of the pups onto the other arm of the Trich.

[ 23. September 2003, 18:36: Message edited by: Mesqualero ]

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It seems that the growth rate is not quite as special as the size/ diameter of stock.

This is my T.scop/ Loph graft (~5 weeks)

graft1.jpg

I should have a nicer pic soon.

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i thought i once read some brief cultural notes about lophs on this site but cant find them anymore, anyway.

caapi rather plays mindgames with me than answering q so i ask you all:

how deep do you guys sow your lophs?

i used to do it, just on top with a very little sprinkle off light sand.

this time i have a coarser material on top and the seeds are i guess 2-3mm or more buried beyond soil level.

after 12 days none are up, temp is sufficent (same as last succsessfull time)

i am worried i planted them to deep,

pls help.

aswell apart from sunburn, is it a fungus or rust infection that turns them orange-bronze in color?

some people say the sciard flys are the culprits...

mann, i wished my mum would still grow them for me, she never had any probs with them...

[ 24. October 2003, 11:21: Message edited by: planthelper ]

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Pereskiopsis and Pereskia spp. other than P. aculeata

Condition C7172

The plant/seed has been assessed as a weed and entry is prohibited by legislation.

Pereskia aculatea

Condition C7181

Non-commercial consignments of seed of this species may be permitted entry into Australia subject to inspection on arrival. Seed must be free from soil, live insects, plant material (eg fruit pulp, leaf or stem material, etc), contamination with prohibited seeds and packed in new containers that are clearly labelled with the botanical name.

Packets of mixed seed are not permitted entry as non-commercial consignments due to the difficulties of inspecting them for contaminants.

probably already here though

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Keep in mind the content of the stock species, as this will reflect your scion's final content.

i.e growing 175kg of peyote ontop of P.scandens may take longer than growing 8g of peyote on its own

Pereskiopsis scandens -

Contains: mescaline (.0002%), tyramine, 3-4-dimethoxyphenethylamine.

Dosage: 0.35g/ (0.0002/100) = 175,000g

or

350mg in 175 kilograms

This may be slightly more desireable

Pereskia tampicana -

Contains: tyramine, mescaline (.001%), phenethylamine, 3-4-dimethoxyphenethylamine, B-hydroxy-4-methoxyphenethylamine.

Dosage: 0.35g/ (0.001/100) = 35,000g

or

350mg in 35 kilograms

This next one is probably one of the best bets.

T. bridgesii -

Fast growing, slender, columnar.

Contains: mescaline (~ 1.6%) , tyramine, 3-methoxytyramine, 3-4-dimethoxyphenethylamine.

Dosage: 0.35g/ (1.6/100) = 21.875g

or

350mg in 21.875 grams

Scion>>

L. williamsii -

over sixty alkaloids discovered, 56 nitrogen containing compounds derived from a tyrosine base, 20 tyramine-like alkaloids.

Mescaline content averaging around 4%

Dosage: 0.35g/ (4/100) = 8.75g

or

350mg in 8.75grams

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I thought potency was influenced by the age of the Loph, not the rootstock,(maybe related as to growth rate), i have been under the impression that alkaloids kept to their own sides in grafts?

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can we settle this finally ?? im just getting confused..

I believe that Myrtillocactus G that was used as grafting stock did show some mescaline after analysis but that species does not o/wise have M

And Pachanoi used the same way contained none.

so is ist a case by case assessment whether alkaloids migrate? has any research been done on this?

Secondly this assumption that the alkloids in Peyote REDUCE with increasing speed of growth

what data is there to prove this? and if there is evidence by what rate is it reduced - for example - if the drop is even 40% then its not really an issue as the growth rates are triple or greater and so the numbers fall in favour of greatly increased yield.

Grafted cacti would have more water but as a percentage of dried mass this would give an indication

Age

Wet weight

dry weight

analysis of dried sample

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Mescaline does not migrate in the plant. Mescaline, in the form found in plants, is not water soluble under normal conditions. It is produced in the plant tissues and remains where it is. A fast grown scion may have a low mescaline content until mesc production catches up with growth but it will catch up if given a chance.

Stoney

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thats good to know that its not watersoluble.

So what evidence do we have that fast grown peyote is realy not as potent as peyote on its own roots? (once the water difference is taken into account)

If the all the mechanisms supporting growth are sped up by grafting then is it not possible that alkaloid biosynthesis to a greater or lesser degree also speeds up?

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It's possible that the turnover rate for the enzyme for mescaline synthesis (or one of the precursors) is inherently slow and no matter what you do, it might only flip precursor "A" to precursor "B" X times a second at its highest.

To speed up mescaline production you would then need to get millions of these enzymes to work in parallel.

But this is just a theory.

:confused:

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i thought this concept of low potency was due to faster growing peyote simply having more water in it.

therefore the amount of mescaline to WET total mass is lower than that of peyote doing it tough in the desert.

if you removed water from both wild growing peyote and the grafted peyote, measured the mescaline levels to dry mass, the mesc. proportions should be very similar.

^something i remember reading on some other board. dont know if its true or not.

interesting theory ed but you have to look at enzyme numbers. a faster growing peyote will have more cells, therefore more enzymes involved in mescaline production. the production process takes the same time in wild as it does in the grafted plant.

grafted plants just get bigger quicker and the bigger the peyote the more enzymes inside.

i think the big thing to look at in peyote would be what stimulates mescaline production levels. its to keep away pests isnt it?

what if you nipped off a tiny bit of the outer flesh with a knife. whould chemical signals be released saying "the walls have been breached, someones trying to eat me. release more chemicals to counter attack" ?

[ 09. November 2003, 23:43: Message edited by: shin ]

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its a possibility

i guess we wont know until someone gets the chance to test these things

You need a whole lot of loph clones from a caespitose strain with a whole lot of cloned stock plants. then randomise and grow out 1/2 the planst on their own roots and 1/2 on the stock (ok ideally itd use several different stocks like trichocereus, pereskiopsis and Hylocereus)

after 1 or 2 years growth the buttons get harvested, dried and analysed for alkaloid content. The results can then be expressed to show absolute yields as well as relative yields (alkaloid vs biomass)

That would settle the Issue fairly

Now all i need is the stock plants - i all but killed off my caespitosa and its going to be years before i can build stock to do an experiment like this

in the meantime ill practice seedling grafts

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I'm not entirely sure why I wrote that last post, it's the growth rate and stock width here that are of higher importance.

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a faster growing peyote will have more cells, therefore more enzymes involved in mescaline production. the production process takes the same time in wild as it does in the grafted plant.

grafted plants just get bigger quicker and the bigger the peyote the more enzymes inside.

Good point. A point I also thought of after I posted it.

But... Maybe you are not really producing many more cells with grafting. You might just be growing the size of each cell (bloating them as it were) and thus not producing any more enzymes.

The analogy I am thinging of is the "obese human" thing. We humans can't really grow more fat storage cells than we make at a certain point in life. The fat cells just get bigger as we pump more high energy foods into our hungry little mouths. The fat cells are bloating themselves with storage fat.

This analogy could be the same with grafted peyote.

This alkaloid production thing could also be a age triggered thing. Production goes faster after some stage of maturity.

Someone should do a long term ssystematic study on this. Anyone... hmmmm..

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Just wondering if loph seedlings are being grown in humidity and are then taken out to graft onto a trich, will they survive?? I assume they have to be in indirect sunlight also. In Mesq's picture his mature grafted peyote seems to be in stronger sunlight?? Is mature peyote grafting able to be in stronger sun?? Also, how exactly do I graft a few days old peyote seedling onto a pachanoi?? I can't find any info on aligning the rings or whatever u need to do? Otherwise, do I need to cut off the roots of my 3 year old peyote and put the top part onto the pach??

a faster growing peyote will have more cells, therefore more enzymes involved in mescaline production. the production process takes the same time in wild as it does in the grafted plant.

grafted plants just get bigger quicker and the bigger the peyote the more enzymes inside.

Good point. A point I also thought of after I posted it.

But... Maybe you are not really producing many more cells with grafting. You might just be growing the size of each cell (bloating them as it were) and thus not producing any more enzymes.

The analogy I am thinging of is the "obese human" thing. We humans can't really grow more fat storage cells than we make at a certain point in life. The fat cells just get bigger as we pump more high energy foods into our hungry little mouths. The fat cells are bloating themselves with storage fat.

This analogy could be the same with grafted peyote.

This alkaloid production thing could also be a age triggered thing. Production goes faster after some stage of maturity.

Someone should do a long term ssystematic study on this. Anyone... hmmmm.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

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