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how small a seedling can be grafted?


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#1 Dreamwalker.

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 02:51 PM

I'm having a problem successfully grafting my San p x cereus seedlings.

The seeds sprout easy enough, but tend to die off (not sure why) by the time they get to "J" below.

So they grow ok for several weeks, then start to die off.

Most tend to be albino (not all,some are green), I have tried to graft them onto per, but as they are from G to J stage, I only have about 3 - 5 mm  to work with, & as they are maybe 1 -2 mm thick, even a sharp razor blade tends to compress (squish them slightly).

Ideally I can graft ok when seedlings are at the L to M stage, is it possible to graft seedling before the column emerges, ie pre K?...as they never survive to the K stage.

any suggestions?

 

a11f1.jpg


Edited by Dreamwalker., 20 September 2014 - 03:05 PM.

don't take any thing seriously, you die every moment :)


#2 modern.shaman

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:22 PM

You can graft as soon as the seedling emerges completely... I would wait a couple weeks before grafting just so they are a little easier to handle.

 

I have been able to graft seedlings in the I and J stage. The way I do it is cut at an angle and place onto the pereskiopsis. I don't press on blade onto the seedling but rather slice it. I have become rather good at grafting small cacti by lightly pinching them with one hand then slicing with the other. With razer blades they are sharp enough to cut without squishing. Box cutter blades work for trichocereus but not smaller seedlings like aztekium IME.

 

Attached File  336153661-IMG_20121119_153233.jpg   43.58KB   1 downloads Attached File  076495846-IMG_20121020_150723.jpg   44.94KB   1 downloads

 

Practice makes perfect so don't be upset if you fail the first few times. The reason I cut at an angle is because its easier to place and more chance of aligning the vascular rings.


Edited by modern.shaman, 20 September 2014 - 03:24 PM.

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#3 Auxin

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 06:16 PM

What are the seedling stages you two are using?



#4 Dreamwalker.

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 09:33 PM

You can graft as soon as the seedling emerges completely... I would wait a couple weeks before grafting just so they are a little easier to handle.

 

I have been able to graft seedlings in the I and J stage. The way I do it is cut at an angle and place onto the pereskiopsis. I don't press on blade onto the seedling but rather slice it. I have become rather good at grafting small cacti by lightly pinching them with one hand then slicing with the other. With razer blades they are sharp enough to cut without squishing. Box cutter blades work for trichocereus but not smaller seedlings like aztekium IME.

Thanks for that....I didn't want to waste anymore..but if its practice, no prob....
I like your angle method & will try it.

Insidently, I have been cutting new shoots/pups off my crafted per, but on your pic you have left it on, so you can let them sprout ok from the side & that doesn't take any potential growth from the graft?

 

What are the seedling stages you two are using?

for me "I"


Edited by Dreamwalker., 20 September 2014 - 09:35 PM.

don't take any thing seriously, you die every moment :)


#5 Auxin

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 06:30 AM

No, lol, I mean what is the name of the classification system that groups seedlings into letter groups.



#6 modern.shaman

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 08:20 AM

Thanks for that....I didn't want to waste anymore..but if its practice, no prob....
I like your angle method & will try it.

Insidently, I have been cutting new shoots/pups off my crafted per, but on your pic you have left it on, so you can let them sprout ok from the side & that doesn't take any potential growth from the graft?

 

I do cut the new shoots off of the pereskiopsis however the seedling will grow either way. Leaving the shoots may actually be a good idea with tiny seedlings that tend to pup excessively. I did remove the shoot from the graft soon after that photo.

 

 

No, lol, I mean what is the name of the classification system that groups seedlings into letter groups.

 

Dreamwalker posted an image of different stages in the OP.


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#7 C_T

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:06 PM

from the reading i did, they generally talk about grafting 2 week old seedlings


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#8 Auxin

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:08 PM

OH, my firewall was blocking it as a malicious IP and I didnt see the little blinking thing by my clock :lol:

My bad


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#9 gr33ntea

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 05:32 PM

You can graft as soon as the seedling emerges completely... I would wait a couple weeks before grafting just so they are a little easier to handle.

 

I have been able to graft seedlings in the I and J stage. The way I do it is cut at an angle and place onto the pereskiopsis. I don't press on blade onto the seedling but rather slice it. I have become rather good at grafting small cacti by lightly pinching them with one hand then slicing with the other. With razer blades they are sharp enough to cut without squishing. Box cutter blades work for trichocereus but not smaller seedlings like aztekium IME.

 

attachicon.gif336153661-IMG_20121119_153233.jpg attachicon.gif076495846-IMG_20121020_150723.jpg

 

Practice makes perfect so don't be upset if you fail the first few times. The reason I cut at an angle is because its easier to place and more chance of aligning the vascular rings.

I am going to try this. Do you apply pressure onto it with glad wrap after you are done? How much pressure i always squish mine :|



#10 modern.shaman

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 04:00 AM

I am going to try this. Do you apply pressure onto it with glad wrap after you are done? How much pressure i always squish mine :|

 

Yes I used saran wrap with a clip to hold it. I add a bit of pressure and using a slant cut prevents it from being squished. I do normal cuts for globular cacti BTW this is only for columnar cacti.

 

Attached File  336153684-IMG_20121119_153511.jpg   68.96KB   0 downloads

This is the same graft as shown before


Edited by modern.shaman, 22 September 2014 - 04:03 AM.

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#11 Auxin

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 04:47 AM

That black metal clip looks brutal.

I use clothespins with rubber bands coiled on the end, the coil can be moved up or down to adjust tension.

Attached File  100_6478.JPG   46.98KB   0 downloads

 

[The white stuff is thread seal tape, you cant see through it but its more elastic than saran wrap, its made of teflon, and its still pretty cheap. Cons might be that it doesnt make a humidity 'tent' like saran wrap does.]


Edited by Auxin, 22 September 2014 - 04:48 AM.

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#12 modern.shaman

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 05:18 AM

The clips are the perfect size for pereskiopsis and do not damage it but hug it tightly. Clothes pins works but I have yet to be let down with my black clips.



#13 gilligan

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Posted Yesterday, 04:29 PM

Honestly guys, you don't need weight on these... A dab of leaf juice on the cut section of the stock, put the scion on, offset the vascular rings, and then put the whole thing in a humidity chamber for a week. That's it. Simple as that. Weights etc are for the bigger buttons etc to pach.
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