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Gollum

L. williamsii vs L.williamsii var ceaspitosa

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Hope some out can help me out here.

I believe that L.williamsii grown from seed tends to have a single head for a fair portion of its life, then it can form multiple heads with age. If the button has been cut at soil level for a graft or re-rooting it tends to clump and re-shoot with multiple pups similar to the ceaspitosa variety.

My question is, can you tell a true ceaspitosa from a standard L. williamsii that has been cut and has started clumping? Are there any differences to look for in ribs or colour? Or do you really have to keep track of your ceaspitosas and non-ceaspitosas if grafting and re-rooting to tell them apart?

Thanks :)

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Not sure about telling the difference between the 2

but as far as telling them apart for yourself just make sure you label everything

At first I didn't have fuckall labels on anything and could easily tell wat everything was

Now with the ever growing collection if I didn't have labels I'd be completely lost

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I'm pretty sure I read a comment by T in a thread that caes's don't get very large buttons, maybe the size of a 10 cent piece at the largest & that they don't clump very large. That they'll only clump to a certain size & then u have to start separating them or they just stagnate...

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^^ Where did you read that?? I have Caespitosa clumps that is larger than a basketball and still growing, also I have some heads on this plant that are much bigger than a 10cent piece... There will be photos somewhere on the forum of these plants.

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Yep, labels are definitley the go. I have been a bit lazy with the labelling lately hence the problem i am having. I have noticed one of the ceaspitosa i did keep track of tends to have a larger area of tightly packed very small pups.

Jack, i think you are correct, i have seen pics of a very large ceas. that did look like half a basketball sitting in a pot. It was a sight to behold for sure.

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Have a look at some pics in these old threads of mine:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5769&st=0&p=52040&fromsearch=1entry52040

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12097&hl=&fromsearch=1

I dont have any difficulty distinguishing these varietys as they have very different growth forms however all my plants are grown on there own roots.

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183150d1281115201-lophophora-caespitosa-lophophora_williamsii_caespitosa.jpg I think this is the pic i was drooling over. :drool2:

 

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Crikey Jack! you've got a couple of rip-snorters there my friend :worship:

I am sure i could distinguish the difference between the varieties at that size. :drool2: Mine are just wee babies compared to those bohemoths :)

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I'm pretty sure I read a comment by T in a thread that caes's don't get very large buttons, maybe the size of a 10 cent piece at the largest & that they don't clump very large. That they'll only clump to a certain size & then u have to start separating them or they just stagnate...

 

This is the form that mine takes although it isn't very old. Possibly with maturity larger buttons may form. My larges is around a 20c piece in size wit hseveral 5-10c pieces around it.

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Ok...here it is

http://www.shaman-au...showtopic=31917

T's post is 11th down the page.

EDIT: I have both of these, the var & the f...the var is so small & is well over 2yrs old...none of the buttons are bigger then 1cm.

The f is 4yrs old & has a main button about 5cm across & has just flowered for the 1st time.

Edited by space cadet 101

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Have a look at some pics in these old threads of mine:

http://www.shaman-au...h=1

http://www.shaman-au...l=&fromsearch=1

I dont have any difficulty distinguishing these varietys as they have very different growth forms however all my plants are grown on there own roots.

 

I would love to see those plants now especially the ones in the second thread :drool2:

Cheers

Got

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My question is, can you tell a true ceaspitosa from a standard L. williamsii that has been cut and has started clumping? Are there any differences to look for in ribs or colour?

 

The basic differences are in the root structures and how new pups emerge. Caes forms typically do not form a large central tap root. New pups readily grow roots at a very young age. Ribs, head sizes, and coloration are all variable. Usually 1 or more heads matures to the point of flowering and wool growth at the aeroles.

As they mature, many single head forms readily start clumping without being cut.

My experiences are from seed grown plants to full maturity in 26 cm pots.

Personally I tend to believe what experiences have shown me, rather than what I read on the internet. :)

Certainly a YMMV situation.

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The basic differences are in the root structures and how new pups emerge. Caes forms typically do not form a large central tap root.

 

That must have one huge taproot.

 

The pic doesnt show it, but the pot appears to be quite shallow.

I have caes plants fully occupying 26cm dia pots that are only 15cm deep.

Caes plants do not form large tap roots.

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Gorgeous!!

Are those huge ones currently grafted or were they ever grafted? Would you have to degraft something like that after awhile?

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Are those huge ones currently grafted or were they ever grafted?

The ones I have growing have never been grafted & the only reason to graft a caes type plant would be if it's fairly well variegated.

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Hhhmmm, why not graft? Won't they take forever to get to good size? Is there a disadvantage of grafting them?

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I doubt pictures can adequately convey the fundamental differences between a caes type plant and a single headed variety that has formed multiple pups, however if they could, you'd quickly realize why grafting really isnt in your or the plants best interest.

One big disadvantage to grafting a caes type is it will quickly overgrow the root stock, at which point it becomes highly susceptible to rot, even when grafted to a larger sized trich root stock.

If a persons sole interest is maximum size in the least amount of time, they're better off sticking with trichs.

Granted, the longest wait seems to between seed and 7cm pot size, but once they reach 7cm pots, their growth rate multiplies exponentially. Given optimum growing conditions, I've seen plants on their own roots go from 7 cm pots to 16 cm pots in 3-4 years or less.

Usually by the time a caes plant has grown to a 16cm pot size, a single head or more has sufficiently developed in size to produce flowers & fruits. Some have flowered & fruited at the 10 cm pot size.

10cm pot size

c4caesdsc0661.jpg

8 months later, 16cm pot size

c4caesdsc0302.jpg

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Interesting, the one I have is on a fairly thick pachanoi - it is growing quite fast, and flowers regularly - it is about as big as the one in the 8cm pot pic above, but only the middle button and the immediate ring of a dozen or so buttons around it.

I wonder if I should degraft it here at some point?

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