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Sida Cordifolia


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#1 Acacia King

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:52 AM

Hi Everyone,


I just got a lot of Sida Cordifolia. Has anyone grown much of this. I know it grows like a weed especially in the tropics where I am.

If any one has anyone has any experience with growing or using this plant I'd love to here about it!

I know that Sida. spp are endemic and not native, hope this is the right forum.



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#2 rahli

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:27 PM

Hey acacia king,

I don't know much about using s. cordifolia but I can try help you sort a few things out.
There are plenty of sida spp. Native to Australia but s. cordifolia is not one of them. I think it comes from India where they call it bala or some such. Also an endemic is a species that is only found in a specified area, so if a species is endemic to qld it is only found there. Good luck and remember this species contains actives that the piggers pounce on big time so be sure to be careful when playing with it.
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#3 tonic

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:42 PM

Not an Australian native.
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#4 Kent

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:37 PM

Common around Dululu in Central Qld.
'Names And Distribution Of Queensland Plants, Fungi and Lichens', 2002 by Queensland Herbarium lists it as native.
Maybe its a mistake.

Kent.

#5 Pat Uri

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:21 AM

Gidday there - Acacia King, Rahli, Tonic and CQ countryman Kent! Nice to meet you all.

You bet "felt weed" S.cordifolia and "Queensland hemp" S.rhombifolia are as common around here as cowsh*t - and about the same potency. They were introduced with the Brahman and spread like wildfire since.

Read all about it in http://keyserver.luc..._cordifolia.htm

In the Northern Territory it is declared Class B and C pest - they'll pay you to pull it out! In our terms that declaration means it is illegal to carry over state borders.

I cannot get my hands on Cribbs "Wild Medicine in Australia" - the second volume - where they mention the one reference to the introduced pest being low in alkaloid - unlike the Indian "Bala" selectively bred for it's potency. If any city folk forum peoples can, please let us all in: - better than my old memory!

(Same sort of difference between weedy dandelion and the official, pharmaceutical dandelion which is a magnificent, huge plant.)

Always makes me chuckle when the "traps" are chasing down every bod that buys a box of Sudafed when:- 1) a NSW ex-cop was bringing in shipping containers of it; 2) foreign boaties were seen bringing tonnes in - but managed, in full sight, to throw it overboard before authorities boarded them; and 3) I have, you have, they have, we all have it growing in our Queensland backyards! In CQ grazier's situation by the megatonne - all unwelcome!
(Go 'Schedule' that! - ya bastards!)

The proper herb, boiled up with ginger, makes a cough linctus second to none and every bit as good as what Big Pharm want to force you to buy off them - but without the side-effects.

Interestingly if you take drugs in their natural botanical form - with all the attendant alkaloids, phytochemicals, vitamins, minerals, enzymes, co-enzymes, etc. that nature intended to keep these strong medicine/poisons benign and beneficial in the living plant tissue - and NOT in single chemical, isolated, artificial "active principal" tablet form so profitable to Big Pharm - then they are generally free of side effects, addictions, overdosing, etc. But, oh!, the vanity of man!

Compare decent coffee with No-Doz tablets; or Ma-Huang with Fedrine tablets; or, as I understand the US is trialling, Coca leaf with "crack cocaine" - and you will see nature is well more intelligent than any political fashion.

One of the 'hands' I hired - ex 'speed-head' as you won't get 'gear' here - heard that feltweed had "goey" in it and proceeded to boil up kilograms - stinkbugs and all - to guzzle down the excellent mucilage it produces. He boiled it neutral, acidic and alkali. For his trouble all he got green shit for a few days, but no "high":- did him good, excellent detox! but, oddly, his urine showed positive to 'sympathomimetics' that the Instacheck drug tests the Government had provided me picked up! "Cause he had no meth in him - it was a false positive. So whether it was ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, etc. who cares? I pay for his work, not his biochemistry.

On the land we live and work by "Realpolitik" and not some bureaucrat inspired fantasy. I support them - and they support me:- simple. The human chain. Unbreakable.

That's probably enough for now. Thanks for the chat! Nice to see a local in forum there Kent! Bye to all.

Edited by Pat Uri, 01 December 2012 - 06:57 PM.

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#6 quarterflesh

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:42 AM

Iv boiled / steam distilled / a/b / metho extracted and eaten raw both sida rhombifolia and cordifolia and got nothing exiting at all
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#7 Pat Uri

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

Where did you source it, quarterflesh? (And I admire your persistence! It wouldn't be easy to work with.)
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#8 quarterflesh

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

a variety of places, some were seed grown from herbalistics and the rest were collected around where i live in bowen. the best waste of my free time ever.
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#9 mindperformer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:10 PM

I growed the related Sida rhombifolia and used the roots, herb and seeds as stimulant, worked well
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#10 Pat Uri

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:26 AM

Very nice specimens there mindperformer! Certainly looks superior in every way to the Australian feral weeds!
Now this is merely a guess but I wonder if it requires some curing - that is enzymatic fermentation - to release the alkaloid.
Many alkaloidal plants are like that, they must be "sweat" before their actives become available.
This involves breaking down the pectin that can bind the alkaloid like eggs in egg cartons completely wrapping them up in tight, space conforming compartments - so to speak. It can even be more involved with microbiotic enzymes having to break down the organic acids that fix them...There is an electrophoresis tek too...
Time to find an expert of the Ayurveda tradition with knowledge of Bala, per se.
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#11 mindperformer

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

thanks Pat!

do you think it is also possible to break down the pectin- encapsulations with alcohol-extraction of the finely grinded material (at room temperature for 2-3 weeks) and afterwards water-extraction at high temperature?

recently I made a pectin-extraction from wild apples



...maybe we should develop a Sida-beer with yeast

Edited by mindperformer, 02 December 2012 - 08:14 PM.


#12 Pat Uri

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

Sida beer - what an excellent idea! It should have quite good body and head.
Sorry I can't go into more detail, especially on quarterflesh's tek; I'll figure out a way of wording it however. Perhaps in a thread about curing herbs for maximum potency. You see here in Australia - and especially in the progressive, far minded state of Queensland - isolating pseudoephedrine by a chemical means is quite illegal, a separate charge within itself, let alone the equipment to do it.
In another threads I've mentioned a technique for overcoming pectins to some degree. But I'm afraid I can't do it here.
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#13 mindperformer

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

I see, I didn't know that a Sida- raw-extraction is illegal in Oz,
...in Vienna this extracts are sold in Ayurveda- shops because in India it is a common herbal medicine
AND: Pseudoephedrine is in one of the most common otc-medicines: "Aspirin Complex" from Bayer


here is an example of such an international sold ayurvedic preparation (most of the Sida- products are skin-oils):
http://www.esutras.c...a-Capsules.html

one might argument that there are many ephedrine-containing products sold in the internet, but generally only the pure products are controlled when ordered in great quantities

but why buy it? Sida- and Ephedra- species grows everywere like weed- even in Switzerland there is Ephedra
So I'm completely free of anxiety, as I don't want to make a pure extraction and convert it to something else... a simple alcohol-rawextract contains all the soluble healthy bioactive compounds from the plant (like vasicine) and is NOT comparable to the pure otc-products.

Medicinal properties of Bala (Sida Cordifolia):
This plant normalizes Vata and pitta. Hence it is used in diseases which are caused due to vitiation of vata and pitta.

Bala has anti inflammatory properties. Its preparations are used as external applications in swelling of wounds and inflammation of eyes. Oilsprepared using this herb are very useful in arthritis and other diseases which affect joints. These oils help to reduce pain and inflammation.

Bala normalizes vata and sooths excited nerves. For this reason the oil prepared using this herb is used to massage patients who suffer from paralysis, cervical spondylosis, facial paralysis etc.

Sida Cordifolia controls motility of large intestine. It helps to absorb waterand nutrients from intestines. Hence its preparations are widely used in Grahani or Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS).

This herb is a very good cardiac tonic and reduces petechial hemorrhage. Ayurveda acharyas recommend use of this plant in these conditions.

Bala is known for its “shukrala” properties. Shukrala means increasingshukra dhatu. Because of this property, bala is used in ayurvedic preparations which increase sperm count and sperm motility. It helps toincrease quality and quantity of semen. This herb is mainly used in male and female infertility. Texts of ayurveda praise the herb Bala as Vrishya (aphrodisiac). Hence this herb is used in conditions like erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation.

The herbal preparations which are used in Female infertility contain this herb as main ingredient as it acts as a very good uterine tonic.

The diuretic properties of this herb help in cystitis and it rejuvenates urinary system.

Bala is a very good rasayana herb. Hence it is widely used in convalescing patients as it supplies essential nutrients. It helps to build a healthy body and strengthens body immune system.

This herb is used in African folk medicine to treat various conditions like bronchitis, asthma, nasal congestion, stomatitis etc.




by the way such an extraction could also happen at random... for example by accidentally spilled vodka (over a bin full of Sida, after clearing the weeds ouf of the garden, and drinking meanwhile) and forget the bin outside, find it again when the vodka vaporized and wow, there is something brown gooey left on the bottom of the bin, additional to the leaves... of course we would NOT eat anything of it, but throw it away...

Edited by mindperformer, 05 December 2012 - 03:01 AM.


#14 Pat Uri

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

I'm very sorry if you felt any offence there mindperformer - as I intended none and very much admire your contributions (especially images).
I wish I lived in such a mature, sophisticated and democratic country as you - which you can be proud. Here authorities derive their mandate from the politics of hatred, making scapegoats and whipping up self-righteous hysteria from (kept) ignorant masses. Where once Australia rode on the back of the fleeced merino - it rides now on the back of the fleeced individual and they actually want the most draconian antidrug laws in the world!
Paranoia aiming to separate us - but whilst free forums, like this, exist; and good people, like yourself, support us, they will fail and freedom shall, one day, triumph! (Quarterflesh was unintentionally bringing themselves "close to the bone")

Back to task - I'm guessing with Sida but I wouldn't be surprised if it accumulates alkaloid in its aerial parts when its flowers are removed. This is the "topping" and "suckering" technique that works so dramatically with tobacco. The plant naturally attempts to protect the seeds at the expense of all other tissue and when deprived of their hormonal influence (florigens) hypertrophies what's left with the precursors.
This is certainly the case where the minor amines, not yet alkaloid, occur also in the roots. The leaves thicken and on senescence are loaded. After this, a month of sun-curing breaks the pectin bonds. This is the case with Indian ephedra.

So much more to be done! Thanks again for your support.
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#15 coin

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:38 PM

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#16 mindperformer

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:48 PM

Thanks, Pat
I didn't feel offence but was wondering about why such an ubiquitous herb is controlled in your country, but I didn't think on the recent retrogressions of drug politics in Oz because I have only been in New Zealand, but this country seems to be more liberal.
Great solidarity, especially with all of us living in repressive countries

Of course there are more drug-liberal countries than Austria, like the Netherlands or Peru, but compared with most other EU-countries we can be pleased with the recent arbitrary progresses.
Examples: You can legally buy (head- and growshops in Vienna) Psilocybe sp.- spores and cultivation-sets, Cannabis- cuttings and seeds, ephedrine- containing preparations, Coca-liqueur, poppy-pods, Kratom-extracts, Kathplants and DMT-containing plants (the last both only as plants, no extracts). You can get medical cannabis and I even know someone who has the repeat prescription for medical cannabis-spray (Sativex) and a driver license. Those who are addicted on opiates get retarded morphine and the roofie-addicts get Flunitrazepam. The worst case for ganjagrowers at small scale is only a small fine.

I think the alkaloids of Sida are of the mobile kind and the contents in the different parts vary greatly, I agree that topping would be beneficial for hormonal redirecting the metabolic actions to the leaves. Most plants have highest leaf-alkaloid-content in the end of summer. Maybe the roots contain even more in autumn... Many plants transport their alkaloids from the roots to the leaves.
This study confirmes that roots also contain Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine, but also more Vascinol, Vascinon and N-methyltryptophan: http://www.ijppsjour...Issue1/2882.pdf

Pat, you are also a living enzyclopedia!
Thanks for mentioning the sun-curing for Sida, I didn't know that, a very useful method for breaking down the pectin.
I've always used alcohol and recently I've read that the detection of pectin is made by adding high grade alcohol to the solution. If the solution clumps (by the degradation of pectin), there must be a high concentration of it.

Edited by mindperformer, 06 December 2012 - 07:51 PM.

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#17 indigo264nm

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:01 AM

Man you see S. cordifolia growing in random neglected patches in Sydney and I've known people on properties in NSW where they have fields covered in it. It's very weedy.....

Iv boiled / steam distilled / a/b / metho extracted and eaten raw both sida rhombifolia and cordifolia and got nothing exiting at all



Psuedo\Ephedrine won't cause anything useful stimulation wise..the most exciting it will get is empty and unpleasant IMHO.

Although I've never even considered extracting due to legality (just not worth the risk at all), I do know extraction is feasible.. He only used seeds and bark - nothing else.
From this I saw xtal precip out and drop to the bottom whilst gassing. No idea what else dropped out, and naturally I didn't stick around as I in no way wanting to be in a place with dodgy stuff going on..

Edited by -=IndigoSunrise=-, 15 December 2012 - 03:02 AM.

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#18 PhoenixSon

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:15 AM

unopened flowers + seeds is where the medicine is, from what i remember reading.
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#19 quarterflesh

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

Bleh, im sick of seeing the stuff my back yard is full of it.

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#20 vual

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Posted Yesterday, 04:12 PM

lol its been a while for me to post, and haha i shouldnt really bump this old old thread but...........
dam my yard is full of this shit, be carfull, i had 1 small bag of seeds from a trade a few years ago, grew one small plant and it seeded... them booooom my entire yard is taken over by this.
So play it safe watch this plant well it will excape and wreak damages on the enviroment.


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