60 replies to this topic

[myco]

That's fucked mate definately unfair dismissal no doubt about it
Good luck with the lawyers and court stuff mate

I don't think you'll have much of a problem there
They are definately in the wrong

Once it's all over you should wait out the front at the end of the day and attack that dude with a fire extinguisher when he leaves

[qualia]

Once it's all over you should wait out the front at the end of the day and attack that dude with a fire extinguisher when he leaves

or a slap in the face with a dildo

[MorteiN]

That's fucked mate definately unfair dismissal no doubt about it
Good luck with the lawyers and court stuff mate

I don't think you'll have much of a problem there
They are definately in the wrong

Once it's all over you should wait out the front at the end of the day and attack that dude with a fire extinguisher when he leaves

Yeah I reckon its most definitely an unfair dismissal - I'm just wondering if my old work place can just fabricate some bullshit and then nothing come of it, would that be easy for a business to do...?
I dunno bout attacking him with a fire extinguisher. I think I'd rather pay some ethnix to go break knee caps n shiz instead. Make him an old limpy mclimp dick


No progress as of yet, just waiting to hear back from the insurance lawyer. Will keep ya'll posted.

[MorteiN]

My lawyer guy has made the unfair dismissal application - and fair work australia is chasing my back pay.
It will probably be a few weeks now till I hear of any progress.
I'm gonna go down to centrelink today (interview at 11am) and see what they can do for me.

And thats it for the moment. Will let you peeps know of any updates.

[Psylo]

I think u'll find that if u've been doing 38hrs/wk for 18mths then u should have been put on permanent, unless ur a

In NSW this is not true, as a blanket statement. A company is not obliged to offer temps/casual/contracted staff a full time position, ever.

If u have been employed for over 12months they are required by law to give u two weeks notice, just as a full timer would recieve. Or pay u out for those two weeks.

Again, not true in NSW. I am a contracted employee and have been for years, moving from business to business as projects arise. Not one single employment agreement I have agreed to states that an employer (or employee) needs to provide more than a days notice to terminate the agreement. Much of the hospitality industry is also a short-notice situation (Im just looking at some contracts now which confirm this)

If Mort's ex employers are basing their decision on wok drying up, then they are within their rights to and its not unfair dismissal. If there is something IN WRITING that mentions the abusive incident of the previous week being the impetus for terminating the employment, then maybe he has a case to pursue. The doctor's visit will be the clincher if you wanted to have a crack at fucking them over. Or you could just walk away, if you feel that the outcome is not worth the ongoing angst. The life lesson to learn from this is that you need to portray yourself as something other than a victim, and avoid being bullied in the first place. Or if that's not possible, then surely you would have seen the signs previously, and could have left ages ago, after finding a new job.

[Psylo]

Mort, what industry did you work in ?

Also, I suggest that you get your RSA & RCG (certification to serve booze and handle pokies) because as a young guy (Im assuming this) bar / hotel work is a great in-between safety net. The money's shithouse at around $21 per hour, the hours can be long and being on your feet for long stretches can suck, but its better than the measly government handouts.

[space cadet swami]

^^^ I am forced to rescind my previous statements on SAB about QLD being the backwards state. If this is the case as u state psylo, then NSW has a certain amount of backwardness too match QLD's.

I have to agree with psylo, in the sense that is it worth all the angst that u will have to endure if u were to pursue this issue morteiN?

[Distracted]

Pyslo.. I read your final sentences as


"You were bullied, it was your fault, stop whining and get over it"
The same sorta sentiment that has given rise to the suicides of youth from school bullying.

You are right that mort has to take the power back though and stop playing the victim and that's what he's doing right now by trying to fuck them over.
If your legal battle doesn't work out mort be SMART about your revenge, don't bother trying to teach them a lesson just get back at them in a way that can't be traced to you.

[incognito]

Uhhh that's just how psyllo rolls, I think he's actually consoling and sharing wisdom. He's actually a nice and helpful person disguised as an asshole ;)

[MorteiN]

Hey guys - and Psylo.
FUARK I went down to centrelink and the chick that was helping me get onto the newstart allowance rang up my boss for me, because he hadn't provided me with a cert of seperation and she wanted to know the reason for my termination.

He told her that work was running out!!!!!!!!!!

So he obviously knows the legalities - He told me initially it was because work was running out, then told me it was because of my public outburst. Then told centrelink it was cause work was running out......

There are three employees including me that does my job - All of which are casual (me being there the longest). We had just taken on a new south african traveller 4 weeks prior to my sacking, It was also well known at the work place that this south afco fella was leaving the country soon, as his working visa was about to expire. So they are employing new emoployees and are aware that they are only here for a few weeks, but still they choose to sack me who has been there longest and isn't planning on going anywhere anytime soon. All this occured after I complained about being assaulted.

Its all fucked up and so, sooo wrong... Regardless tho, you think they are well within there right - despite everything that has occured?

[incognito]

I would put everything down on paper while it is still fresh in your head. Where there witnesses to the extinguisher incident ? Would they testify? Mean that's assault right there.
Have u spoken to legal aid yet ??

Edited by incognito, 29 May 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[MorteiN]

The life lesson to learn from this is that you need to portray yourself as something other than a victim, and avoid being bullied in the first place. Or if that's not possible, then surely you would have seen the signs previously, and could have left ages ago, after finding a new job.

I dont have dosh, I need it. And the abuse was worth the coin...
No one willingly allows themselves to be bullied, especially not me. I was ready to play facial reconstruction but that'd land me in a heap of shit, as well as getting sacked...

Mort, what industry did you work in ?

I worked in a shipyard anti-fouling yachts and cruisers... Maritime Industry?

I have to agree with psylo, in the sense that is it worth all the angst that u will have to endure if u were to pursue this issue morteiN?

My compensation lawyer is dealing with the angst now - He takes 30% if it wins. Nothing if he loses.
Pretty well angst free now.


I'm gonna get my centrelink dosh soon, and will pursue some cash work (landscaping) for the next couple of weeks.
Then I might try to go off to tafe and have centrelink pay for it. I want to study some kind of hortorculture course maybe.

I have done a coxswaines course at tafe - maybe I should try to build on this by going out and doing some scuba diving courses and obtain a ticket of somesort.

I dont like the fact that there is so much piss testing that goes on in the maritime industry... Maybe It's time for me to start a new career path...

[MorteiN]

I would put everything down on paper while it is still fresh in your head. Where there witnesses to the extinguisher incident ? Would they testify? Mean that's assault right there.
Have u spoken to legal aid yet ??

Yes there is was two of my co-workers and my boss that wittnessed everything. I am unsure if either of the other two co-workers will testify. I have spoken to legal aid - He is the compensation lawyer that is pursuing the unfair dismissal for me. He is confident and is also interested as to what is happening with my boss's job posistion - so maybe hes gonna go for the jugular? Who knows.

I got a feeling it might all fall thru if they use the "work drying up" excuse as psyllo seems to think.... I do have the doctors cert still and thats all filed away ready for use when needed, the lawyer is aware of it too.

I've got a full incident diary of everything too. The lawyer has a copy of this also.

[space cadet swami]

good luck with it all mort, to many employers think they can do & get away with anything they like these days. Just remember you will probably have to pay some money back to centrelink after it all goes through.

Like u say, it's obviously time for a change, so embrace it my brother...

[qualia]

i wouldn't really worry about the "work drying up" excuse. not sure if there would be a boss alive who would admit to to firing someone unfairly in the face of a lawsuit.

[Evil Genius]

Dont start doubtin now, Mort. It would be sad if others dont testify but its not that bad either. Work-court ist diffrent than others and im sure you´ll win. And btw, you have nothing to lose so just dont stress yourself over it. You couldnt work there anymore anyway so why not burning the whole town down when we´re already at war and think about making a civil case as well because of constraint or some shit like that. Thats the type of stuff that gets you a 5.000 Dollar payment because of mental cruelty.

Edited by Evil Genius, 29 May 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[eatfoo]

I hope i dont offend. But did anyone else notice the irrony of Mort's username/avatar and "sprayed". Sorry had to say it!

Anyway i hope you win man. If this happened in a Govt job your boss would be likely to lose his house. Im pretty sure a buisness can be fined just for not having the correct procedures in place to document/deal with bullying etc.

[migraineur]

As has been stated, write down and document EVERYTHING including dates and times. Keep what was said and all documents etc in one place. This has saved me when I had problems with previous work places, businesses and government departments, even when things were accidents.

If you have witnesses then get their contact information and get them to write down what happened for you. As soon as possible if you can whilst it is still somewhat fresh in their minds.

If possible then try to correspond via email because it leaves a trace which makes it harder for people to deny things.

[Psylo]

Pyslo.. I read your final sentences as

You do that, sunshine.

Uhhh that's just how psyllo rolls, I think he's actually consoling and sharing wisdom. He's actually a nice and helpful person disguised as an asshole ;)

Jono, here's where I tell you to get fucked.

I looked at a few other work contracts for my contractor staff today , and there's definitely no clause pertaining to fulltime benefits as fixed-contract employees. However industry awards do vary, and i don't know about Maritime.

I knew Mort's boss would come out and say that there was no work left for him. But, as said before, the doctor's visit will be the deciding factor. Your representative needs only mention it in the right manner, and they will probably settle with a sum of money to make it go away. If I were you (ugh) I'd refuse the first offer, and make them come u wit a better settlement. With powerful evidence recorded (ie the doctor) they will realise that they are fucked.

All the best.

[Psylo]

To add, the last remaining old-school trade union reps are still out there for some industries. My best mate, in the engineering trades (electrical) had his bulldog of a rep come in last year and rip the throats out of a payroll executive and a senior manager. If your industry is full of bullying cunts, maybe it's time to start paying dues for representation down the track. He's stayng at my place this week, i'll ask him more tomorrow night if you like.

Overall, I think most of the movement is dead & buried though, and work more for the employers than the workers, so it really depends on what award youre covered under before I can offer any advice. Some unions I would avoid at all costs.

[MorteiN]

^ Thanks man.
By the way I am covered under the "Vehicle Manufacture Repair and Services and Retail" award if that means anything to you.
I haven't tried finding out what union covers it, anyway its too late to join a union now - that'd be comparable to buying car insurance after you have an accident wouldnt it?

[Torsten]

Mortein, I think you have a good deal with the 30% lawyer. It is usually 50%, so if a company offers their services at 30% it means that they have a higher success rate than others, which means they take cases which are more likely to win. So the fact he took yours indicates to me it is a good case.
I know he is going after the unfair dismissal, but I didn't see you commentign anywhere whether he is going after damages for pain and suffering. The extinguisher incident is a pretty nasty matter and shoudl result in two separate but linked outcomes : one being that you get damages, and the other being that the employer gets fined. The latter might not help you much other than getting a bit of revenge, which can be very healing and empowering after such a nasty experience [especiallyif your other matters don't bear fruit].

Psylo, I am not current with NSW law, but I know my sis got into trouble because she treated casuals as casuals after a year. Apparently any casual is afforded the same protection as a part timer after a certain number of months [i think 6]. While the employer does not need to offer a part time or full time position, the protection is still the same.
I had a similar issue in one of my businesses recently. I use casual rates for pay because it is less bookkeeping and it suits most of my staff better. Casual staff who had been employed for over a year have dismissal protection. eg if I have rostered them on, but then sack them they have a right to get paid for those rostered days for 2 weeks. The way around this is to not sack staff, but to just not roster them on, which seems to eb the case with mortein.
There are also super obligations that change after a few months. This gets even murkier if you employ contractors. If you have employed a contractor for 3 months they automatically become casual employees as far as the ATO is concerned. This means that the employer also has to pay them super. Also, the ATO takes a very dim view of contractors that work regular hours on site. eg it is impossible to have a retail sales assisstant as a contractor for more than 3 months because the work is regular hours on site.
I know someone who got 5 years jail for assuming contractors stay contractors. ATO claimed he avoided his tax obligations and won in court.

[Psylo]

Casual staff who had been employed for over a year have dismissal protection. eg if I have rostered them on, but then sack them they have a right to get paid for those rostered days for 2 weeks. The way around this is to not sack staff, but to just not roster them on

This is a 'trick' that hotel (pub) licencees use often to get rid of staff, in an industry full of 'casual' staff who may well work 40+ hours a week. Instead of confronting a no longer required staff member, they throw out a coupe of weeks rosters where the person only gets a day or two,which forces them to seek work elsewhere. It's a low, weak way to do business, but I have seen it more than a few times (mrs works in the industry).

How do you define a contractor, Torsten? As a sub-contractor, a person on a fixed term agreement (a 'contract') or what is often known as a 'temp'? If you speak of the latter then I can produce many documents passed through the hands of various legal counsel (in theory - Im not publishing them here) which clearly define circumstances of termination/resignation with no reference to a change in the agreement after an extended duration of service.

[Psylo]

I haven't tried finding out what union covers it, anyway its too late to join a union now - that'd be comparable to buying car insurance after you have an accident wouldnt it?

Are you retiring from the workforce ? You come across as a young guy, and you have said that your industry is full of wankers, so what's to say you won't need the support in future ? If you had a car accident, and ended up in debt for years wouldn't you consider insuring your next motor vehicle ?

[Xenodimensional]

If and when it goes legal and the south african guy has left and if it is found out that your (former) boss has hired new staff to fill his (and therefore also your) role.... he's not going to have a leg to stand on, knee-caps or not ;-)

chances are he'll have to open his books in court to prove the work was 'drying up' which can of course lead to all kinds of other problems for him, especially if he is unscrupulous. I'd put my money on him trying to settle out of court...

... in which case bleed him dry.