28 replies to this topic

[Torsten]

dc was killed in a traffic accident yesterday. He has many friends here who will miss him. I didn't know him all that well despite him having been a member here for 8 years, but i know he was important to many of my best friends here. I've become good friends with a couple of people he brought to the forums - so thank you dc.

slow down kids....

[Evil Genius]

Sorry to hear. Didnt know him THAT well but i definately knew him and had a few conversations with him one or two years ago. I´m sure he will be missed. bye Eg

[at0m]

It's always sad to lose someone. I didn't know him but condolences to those who did.

[Amazonian]

OWWWW , dc

I was going to PM dc the other day, and beg him to come to a Melbourne meet. Now I will never see him again. I only met him once at a Melbourne meet, but he had a huge impact on me, I was impressed . Top guy.

Sad.

Thanks for letting us know Torsten. Sorry you have to be the bearer of bad news......again.

RIP dc

[Alice]

Very sad news, what a terrible way to go. My condolences to his family and friends.

Edited by Alice, 02 May 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[obtuse]

I never met dc, but had heaps of chats with him in the lab years ago.

Really sad news, my condolences to his family and friends.

[shruman]

I did'nt know him well, but I did do a bit of trade with him, he bought a large amount of yote seed a couple of times off me back in the day, I had wondered how all those little bubs were growing up. I'm sure a part of him lives on in the plants he loved.

Condolences to those who have loved & lost

[naja naja]

damn it DC. Man. I only met u once and it was for like 1 full minute in the middle of downtown melbourne. We spoke lots on the lab, Loooots. He had many fast cars, some fitted with N20, So this is kinda not a surprize. Going to miss u man. So u going to sell me that RB flask now? ( Sry, personal Joke)

Peace Brother

[Legba]

I was really hoping we would get around to that game of NOS chicken one day.
You left too soon.

Peace and Love to you DC

[Μορφέας]

Sad, I remember him well

Rest in peace friend

[Zen Peddler BlueGreenie]

terrible news.

[chilli]

Fuck so many people die here.

Not like in real life.

[watertrade]

I knew DC best by the nice things people had to say about him

[Torsten]

Fuck so many people die here.
Not like in real life.

I thought about this a lot last year because it ocurred to me too. Here is what I've come up with:

1) Assuming here is a large percentage of people here who like ethnobotany because of the drugs or at elast were partly drawn to it because of that connection, one has to keep in mind that drug consumption is a higher risk behaviour. That means people who are willing to take drugs are probably also willing to take other risks. [eg climbing on waterfalls on the wrong side of the safety barrier, travelling in remote regions, getting into a police chase, etc]

2) Also assuming the drugs connection with ethnobotany, drugs can be fatal. This can be via accidental drug combos or via successful suicides. Many suicides in the straight world are unsuccessful, while drug users generally know how to end it quite reliably.

3) The demographic of this community includes a lot of people who are looking to selfmedicate for mental health issues or who have done so for a long time, either because the conventional drugs don't work or because the docs did not diagnose right. This means we end up with a disproportionate number of depressed, manic, ADD/ADHD, and bipolar folks here.

4) Some drugs can probably precipitate psychological conditions, which make the user more prone to accidents and inappropriate [often unsafe] behaviour.

Some of the above worries me, but I think #3 is the main contributor and hence I don't think there is much more we can do about it.

[chilli]

I thought about this a lot last year because it ocurred to me too. Here is what I've come up with:

1) Assuming here is a large percentage of people here who like ethnobotany because of the drugs or at elast were partly drawn to it because of that connection, one has to keep in mind that drug consumption is a higher risk behaviour. That means people who are willing to take drugs are probably also willing to take other risks. [eg climbing on waterfalls on the wrong side of the safety barrier, travelling in remote regions, getting into a police chase, etc]

2) Also assuming the drugs connection with ethnobotany, drugs can be fatal. This can be via accidental drug combos or via successful suicides. Many suicides in the straight world are unsuccessful, while drug users generally know how to end it quite reliably.

3) The demographic of this community includes a lot of people who are looking to selfmedicate for mental health issues or who have done so for a long time, either because the conventional drugs don't work or because the docs did not diagnose right. This means we end up with a disproportionate number of depressed, manic, ADD/ADHD, and bipolar folks here.

4) Some drugs can probably precipitate psychological conditions, which make the user more prone to accidents and inappropriate [often unsafe] behaviour.

Some of the above worries me, but I think #3 is the main contributor and hence I don't think there is much more we can do about it.

I think you're right Torsten, but actually I was being a bit sarcastic and saying that people die in rl too. I was thinking it maybe just seems like more people die here because I interneteract with more people here than in rl. In reality, lots of people have been dying or falling seriously ill in rl as well, so it could just be a facet of growing old(er).

Like it says in the movies: "On a long enough time line the survival rate for everyone drops to zero" —Tyler Durden

It's fucked up though, I liked the little of dc I saw, he was funny.

Edited by chilli, 07 May 2012 - 03:10 AM.

[Psylo]

More people seem to die at the shroomery, but that could go back to #3 , and the endless supply of potent psychedelics.

[Marcel]

I like your assessment, T, but i would add to point one that a major contributor to "risk taking" behaviour in the psychedelic community is a relatively healthy relationship with one's own mortality, either through the mechanics of spirituality or welcoming openess to the nature of life and death. I think this sounds a little less loaded this way, and contextualises what would otherwise sound like we're a bunch of suicidal nutjobs with no idea of consequence.

[Darklight]

I didn't know dc at all and I hope those around him are OK

I hope the following doesn't detract from his memory- if it does I'll move this to a new thread

sound like we're a bunch of suicidal nutjobs with no idea of consequence.

I've had a fair think about these issues the last few years and absolutely believe that this isn't what we do, nor that this is the impression we give here

This forum has been around for 10+ years, which is a pretty fair chunk of many of our lives, mine included. So yeah, we're going to see an increasing number of transformations as we all mature together, births and deaths, marriages and separations, health, sanity and craziness. You know, all the stuff everyone goes through.

We've encouraged a space where a lot of people feel OK about talking about this online. Probably more so than IRL. This encourages a type of hothousing, or statistical clumping, where posts around these subjects are more common than say, the sorts of discussions you'd get around the coffee cart at work

It's one of the things I love about this place. Initially it's the notion of 'drugs' that brings many of us here, but for those who stay its the broader notions of what the term 'drug' means, it's broader implication in society and health, what the potential for 'drug' and related research and issues are in terms of societal futures and encouraging healthy people

Yes I believe we get a lot more risk takers here, just as we would on a rock climbing forum. And we're also represented somewhat more than other places with people who are open about their physical and mental health- but that's just what we are seeing. Most people aren't public about these issues- including their drug taking- in their daily lives- sometimes for good reason

What I see here is the genesis of a culture of care around drug taking and the many other issues that face drug takers and other members of the public. Dunno how often I've seen n00b posts where people imply they have problems and want to get hold of some cactus for blah blah blah, only to be advised that they should stick around, get to know people, understand the law, and maybe get outside into their own garden and grow some plants before they even consider getting fucked up, which may or may not do them any good. And btw maybe they'd like to read a recent scientific paper on such- and- such to get a better grip on the subject

I don't frequent other forums on the topics we deal with here, I'm not sure how they fare over the longer term, but I'm glad the possibility is open for them to have the same effect

Personally I think this is a long way from sounding like we're a bunch of suicidal nutjobs with no idea of consequence. ( I know you were being facetious Marcel, it's just an example ) I believe we encourage health, education, responsibility amongst ourselves and community involvement which extends beyond the idea of drug taking and that more than a few of us have benefited from this- even those who haven't been here long benefit by finding themselves in such an environment

Persoanlly I'm seeing more death as I age, and the memories accumulate. I think it's just a function of aging

Which in no way lessens the pain of loss. But it is also our acknowledgement of and reverance for such loss which helps make us a stronger community

[ballzac]

I'm not sure if I ever met dc in person. I know he was at some of the meets that I went to, but didn't find out until afterwards, so the chances are that I probably talked to him without realising it was him. Prior to that, I used to talk to him a lot on msn. He was one of the people learnt a lot from when I was a newish member here. We had a minor falling out at some point and stopped chatting after that. Not that it was a big deal, but when you only know someone online, it's pretty easy for communication to stop even from something minor. My condolences to everyone who knew him. He was clearly well liked and well respected.

As for why so many people here have died recently, I would mostly agree with Torsten's points. There is also the point that the community is growing in size and also ageing. As Torsten said, there is not much we can do about #3. I think you would find that the rate of suicides is also high in populations that use prescribed antidepressants, even if you ignore the fact that many of them increase the risk of suicide.

And on the topic of risk taking. That's really a personal thing. It's true that a lot of people in the ethnobotany community are risk-takers, but that mean we all are. I am one of the most cautious people I know. Sometimes I take it almost to extremes. I won't let anyone start driving until my seatbelt is buckled, and I stand well back from the edge of the platform when the train is coming, in spite of the fact that it means I'll probably miss out on a seat. The only area of my adult life I've taken risks in is with drug taking, and as I get older, I do this less and less. It's quite simple, if you want to increase your chances of living longer, do your best to avoid danger. Some people put themselves in at a higher risk due to their behaviour, and they have to be willing to accept the potential consequences, but it's still a tragedy when something goes wrong.

[Torsten]

ballzac, in psychology they use two markers to quantify this behaviour. harm avoidance and novelty seeking. If the fomer is low and the latter is high then you get what we generally call risk takers, daredevils, extreme sports people, etc. If either one of these changes then that also changes the actual risk.
Like you I see danger long before it reaches me and don't cut corners on safety. I score quite high on novelty seeking, but also high on harm avoidance. I feel that drug takers are probably often extreme novelty seekers [especially if the drugs are psychedelics] regardless of their harm avoidance score. In fact around my circle of friends it was mostly very cautious and educated drug takers.

There was some research done a few years ago that showed that the american prisoners had highly decreased MAO levels [at time of entry to jail]. It was suggested that MAO levels may affect risk taking behaviour.

[RonnySimulacrum]

I think i Meet DC once, another passing on SAB, gods speed to the holy land and peace be with you.

I still see the faces of the fiends I have lost on SAB community, i think we tend to have extreme and meaning full relations with each other even over internet as we are all seekers on some levels.

Edited by RonnySimulacrum, 09 May 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[chnt]

very interested. if you have any links or anything i'd love to do further reading.

i think i'd score very high on the novelty seeking, as for the other one i'm not too sure, sometimes i stand so close to the train that i feel the wind against my face, so i guess i'm pretty reckless...

[Torsten]

very interested. if you have any links or anything i'd love to do further reading.

sorry, no links. I just know from a couple of psych assessments I've had to do over the years. It's good to know your type because it lets you pick appropriate people for important aspects of your life eg partners, business, etc

[Marcel]

Edit: not the place for this discussion. Sincere apologies.

Edited by Marcel, 13 May 2012 - 08:24 PM.

[incognito]

Sorry to heAr it. Rest in peace kiddo, may your line always be tight. X