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How to get busted without doing anything wrong.


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#1 Torsten

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:24 PM

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A few months ago I was marginally involved in a legal situation that was quite bizarre. I was not at liberty to discuss details publically at the time because the situation was 'developing', but I did promsie to eventually post about it to serve as a warning to others. There are several lessons in this story and I will summarise them at the end.

A friend in Qld was ordering AM2201 last year when it was still legal. However customs had obviously been made aware of its 'threat to the community' and was holding parcels indefinitely. Part of the game of importing was to just keep ordering and to play the numbers game [ie let them have a certain percentage of parcels]. To do this different addresses needed to be used everytime a parcel got seized. Eventually my friend ran out of PO boxes so he used his home address. Eventually this was also compromised and he stopped. By this time 3 parcel were being held by customs. He had ordered his last 1kg of AM2201 in June. It was held by customs. After 2 months the postal tracking stopped as is normal. 2201 was still legal then. On sept 6th 3 cannabinoid agonists became illegal in Qld. AM2201 was NOT one of them but as I have stated publically, it is an analogue of the 3 scheduled ones [something that was widely argued to be a wrong assumption, but was later proven in court when people got busted for it].

Early november my friend gets a post notification that a parcel has arrived. The parcel that was sent to his home address had been released by customs 3 days earlier. he had forgotten all about it as he had assumed it would be seized and destroyed after being made illegal. Being unaware of what the parcel was he picked it up from the PO which is when he realised what it actually was. This is where things got complicated. My friend made the parcel disappear. Not that he actually wanted to have this stuff, but he knew that he could be arrested for handing it into the cops. That same day I was visiting him and after hanging out for a while I dropped him back at his place and went back home to NSW. Later that night my friend rings me to tell me he had been raided and arrested and that the cops assumed I had the parcel in NSW because his txt record showed we had met up. For a number of reasons he could not tell them what he had actually done with it. I wrote a sign for my door that stated "Dear NSW Police. Please don't break down the door, we have cookies and coffee waiting for you".

After getting some legal advice which confirmed that handing the parcel to the cops is risky as they can arrest the person holding the parcel even if arrangements had been made and guarantees were given, it was decided to wait a few days. This was because my friend had actually mailed the parcel to another state where AM2201 was still legal at the time. However being a weekend it took 4 days for the tracking to show that the parcel was at its destination. While we were twiddling our thumbs and getting up at 5 am every morning expecting a visit, the Qld cops were ringing my friend every day to try and get the parcel back. He had been charged with possession of 1.6million dollars worth of drugs. In Qld it is not the quantity, but the value that determines charge and sentence.

It was 2 weeks before schoolies, a time when the Qld drug cops go completely nuts because the government is on their ass and they need to show results [ie headlines]. So here they were very happily looking at a 1.6 million dollar drug seizure that would make for great news headlines, if it weren't for the fact they'd lost the actual drugs. See, they could only charge him with possession because the import was actually not illegal, but for possession they need to prove intent and knowledge, neither of which would have stuck from a simple pick up CCTV video at the post office. That's why they needed to catch him the next day with the drugs still in his possession. After midnight they can add a new charge for every day that they can prove possession. So essentially my friend was set up.

Once we had confirmed the parcel to be in the state where it was still legal our solicitors contacted the cops and suggested that we would surrender the drugs, but that they had to make it 'attractive' to my friend. Keeping in mind that the cops still thought I had the parcel in NSW. It was round about then that it surfaced that the Qld cops had asked the NSW cops about the legality of AM2201 and had been told it is not illegal in NSW. THAT'S why the NSW cops hadn't raided me! Kinda hilarious cos that information was actually wrong. AM2201 is smack bang covered under the analogues clause in NSW - no doubt about it. But it gets better.

They kept going on about how the kilo represented 1.6 million dollars worth of drugs in the community and how it was imperative that they retrieve it, but they would not drop the charges. With nothing to lose at this point I suggested that maybe we should hint at how badly this could be perceived in the public eye [ie a roundabout way of saying 'I wonder how the media would take 1.6million dollars worth of drugs going missing in a botched operation 2 weeks before schoolies']. 20 mins later we had a deal that the charges would be dropped if we surrendered the parcel. At this point they were still expecting that i would be taking the parcel to the NSW/QLD border for them to pick up. I would have loved to have seen their faces when they were told the parcel is in Victoria :)

The drug squad was VERY keen to retrieve the parcel even once they knew it was in Victoria and after some negotiations our solicitor managed to make arrangements for surrender that did not bring any risk to any of us. This turned into another comedy though as the Qld cops now got it into their heads that AM2201 was illegal in Victoria and hence they would have to get a Vic drug squad agent to do the pick up etc. My solicitor got quite freaked out and it took me some hours to convince him that the Qld cops had it wrong AGAIN. Good thing is that solicitors can read legal texts so eventually he just had to believe the evidence I presented to him about the legality.

The hand over did not go smoothly either. Seems the Vic cops worked out it was not illegal and hence couldn't be bothered to be involved. Hours passed, but eventually the solicitor got rid of the parcel.

The charges got dropped and I've been advised to keep out of Qld cops' way for a few years ;)


A few lessons were learnt here:

1) No one knows what's actually legal or illegal, yet decisions get made in this vacuum.

2) Customs will release an item that is legal under the customs act even if it is illegal under state law, but will inform state authorities of the release so they can raid and prosecute. This seems like entrapment to me, but my solicitor assures me it is all legal.

3) Surrendering illegal items can get you busted.

4) if you've already been charged make sure to surrender it before midnight so you don't get charged again.
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#2 7baz

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:23 AM

this just blows my mind away.

it is clearly in black and white what these institutions do that is a criminal nature in itself in order to stop a crime being committed.

in other words they ( the police ) commit crimes ten times worse to pick on some poor sod with a lil harmless RC that iwas LEGAL at the item of importing and LEGAL to possess , and yet they play the waiting game to catch there prey.

this is so wrong on so many levels.

big thumbs up to your torsten and your friend , i take my hats off to you both :)

#3 Torsten

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:32 AM

I should probably mention that this little issue cost my friend about 10K in solicitor fees. This is actually a very small amount because the solicitor [as a favour to me] did not charge him for the time spent travelling. That would have added another 5K.
It is obviously money well spent because the alternative would have been to potentially get a lengthy jail sentence. Not that my friend has that sort of money - it's about a third of his annual income. So you can't say that my friend got away with it because essentially he was 'fined' 10-15K as the situation forced him to spend this money. I am seeing a strong trend where the police uses the legal system as the penalty itself - comprising of the anxiety, wasted time, and wasted money.
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#4 Therefore

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:40 AM

I wrote a sign for my door that stated "Dear NSW Police. Please don't break down the door, we have cookies and coffee waiting for you".


Lol. Epic story worth waiting for T. Fucking scary at the same time too.
Clever of your friend to make it disappear.

#5 chnt

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:49 AM

that is so dirty, i just read qualias thread about policing trends in illinois the other day and thought about how fucked up that is, and this has many similarities and it's happening in aus... and then you have prohibitionists with the nerve to say why ending the WOD is such a disastrous thing... it is so disgusting
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#6 shruman

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:53 AM

Thanks for the story interesting stuff.

"I should probably mention that this little issue cost my friend about 10K in solicitor fees. This is actually a very small amount because the solicitor [as a favour to me] did not charge him for the time spent travelling. That would have added another 5K.
It is obviously money well spent because the alternative would have been to potentially get a lengthy jail sentence. Not that my friend has that sort of money - it's about a third of his annual income. So you can't say that my friend got away with it because essentially he was 'fined' 10-15K as the situation forced him to spend this money. I am seeing a strong trend where the police uses the legal system as the penalty itself - comprising of the anxiety, wasted time, and wasted money."

I do'nt get this :scratchhead: , he was importing multiple kilos of drugs worth potentialy millions of dollars per kg & was'nt making money :scratchhead: perhaps he should have made a little risk money in retrospect.

"I am seeing a strong trend where the police uses the legal system as the penalty itself"

This has always been the case- justice is for those who can afford it.

Did the police have evidence linking him to the ordering or payment of the product?

Did the police have evidence that he had done multiple orders of the same product?

What other/if any evidence did they have beside the CCTV?

Edited by shruman, 07 April 2012 - 09:03 AM.

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#7 Pat Uri

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:24 AM

RESPECT to you Mr TW! May the Most High bless you in your work -and make you invisible to your enemies!
(- I thought things like that only happen to me!) Long have us up here considered you HERO - and now you are LEGEND to!
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#8 ballzac

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:47 AM

What other/if any evidence did they have beside the CCTV?

I would have thought, naive as I am, that this alone would not be enough to cause problems. Can you explain why he wasn't best off simply exercising his right to remain silent? Surely it would be hard to make a possession charge stick if they can't even locate the product.
A wank, I think!

#9 Pseudo Mexican

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:40 AM

Edit: retracted my comment. Don't know the exact circumstances so shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.

Edited by Pseudo Mexican, 07 April 2012 - 01:29 PM.

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#10 Chef's Foreskin

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:11 PM

That's definately a tale to tell. wow
Oh and Torsten, great forum you have going here! Thankyou for having me..

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#11 shruman

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:31 PM

"I would have thought, naive as I am, that this alone would not be enough to cause problems. Can you explain why he wasn't best off simply exercising his right to remain silent? Surely it would be hard to make a possession charge stick if they can't even locate the product."


From Torstens post:

"but for possession they need to prove intent and knowledge, neither of which would have stuck from a simple pick up CCTV video at the post office. That's why they needed to catch him the next day with the drugs still in his possession. After midnight they can add a new charge for every day that they can prove possession. So essentially my friend was set up."

It would be enough to lay charges but hard to prove in court but they know the longer the charges stick the more expensive it becomes to defend which is I guess why the bloke was looking to cooperate.
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#12 ballzac

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:41 PM

From Torstens post:

Haha, thanks Shruman. I should learn to read properly :blush:
A wank, I think!

#13 Evil Genius

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:13 PM

You could make a nice little B-Movie out of that story. It has all a good plot needs. Theres some Twists and Turns, cookies and a happy Ending. But thats the type of stuff you can only have once in like every 10-20 years. More is just not good for your blood pressure.
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#14 Torsten

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:56 AM

shruman, the charge was not about importing, so it didn't matter whether he ordered it etc. The CCTV is enough to charge even though solicitor said it could be challenged on the basis of interruption of chain of evidence. Without the parcel the charges would have probably not led to a conviction, however you never know. Get a drug crusading judge on a bad day and your life is fucked or at least you have to shell out another 25K for an appeal. Even a slap on the wrist type sentence would not have been acceptable in this case, because it is still a conviction that would interfere with career and travel.

As for making money off the imports, if you are importing a LEGAL powder that costs just $3000/kg and you sell it off by the kilo, then you are not going to make much more than double. That's just the way the industry works. Subtract the 30% losses to customs and the bottom line suddenly is quite a meagre income.

My friend was also far from cooperative. Once it was obvious that they were going to nail him he politely refused to comment. It's a simple lesson everyone should learn. Even the couple of things he said before he reached that decision ended up being not in his favour and could have hurt him in court. But you know, everyone needs to decide themselves when the best time is to shut up. My policy is simple: If they come knocking at my door then they are obviously not my friends, so I don't say anything without a lawyer. But not everyone is that disciplined as the cops have their ways of getting 'harmless' comments out of you.


Evil Genius - it seems the last 20 years of my life are one long series of B-movies ;) I thought I put all that stress behind me years ago and now lead a quiet life tending plants and filing paperwork, but then the f*ckers drag me into shit like that for no reason. Good thing I don't get blood pressure problems, but my anxiety went through the roof for a couple of weeks there.
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#15 shruman

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:40 AM

"shruman, the charge was not about importing, so it didn't matter whether he ordered it etc. The CCTV is enough to charge even though solicitor said it could be challenged on the basis of interruption of chain of evidence. Without the parcel the charges would have probably not led to a conviction, however you never know. Get a drug crusading judge on a bad day and your life is fucked or at least you have to shell out another 25K for an appeal. Even a slap on the wrist type sentence would not have been acceptable in this case, because it is still a conviction that would interfere with career and travel."

I understand this & thought I made it clear in above comments but I was just wondering if they had more evidence to tie him to how he came to be in possession & if they did have this evidence surely it would be another piece in the puzzle to proving the intent/knowledge needed for posession?

I think I get what you sayin though, they would have charged him without that evidence?

"As for making money off the imports, if you are importing a LEGAL powder that costs just $3000/kg and you sell it off by the kilo, then you are not going to make much more than double. That's just the way the industry works. Subtract the 30% losses to customs and the bottom line suddenly is quite a meagre income."

Thats just fuckin crazy... why would anyone do it? surely the risks far outweigh the rewards here? there are all kinds of risk involved. Can you imagine if the supplier sent a scheduled chem instead?, not exactly an uncommon practice in the RC scene.

Makes heroin or Coke smuggling seem smart.

I did'nt mean to give the impression your friend was looking to cooperate from the onset I think you made that clear.

Edited by shruman, 08 April 2012 - 01:50 AM.

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Shoot smack, not bullets. Pop pillz, not caps.

Conform, Consume, Die.

If accidently read, induce vomiting.

#16 Evil Genius

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:46 AM

I thought I put all that stress behind me years ago and now lead a quiet life tending plants and filing paperwork, but then the f*ckers drag me into shit like that for no reason.

He he, that reminded me of this memorable quote from one of my favorites:


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#17 Torsten

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:02 AM

I was just wondering if they had more evidence to tie him to how he came to be in possession & if they did have this evidence surely it would be another piece in the puzzle to proving the intent/knowledge needed for posession?

It seems they didn't really care about that too much. They seized computers, phones, etc, but made no particular attempt to prove that he actually ordered it. They just wanted to catch him holding the parcel.


I think I get what you sayin though, they would have charged him without that evidence?

They indeed did.


Thats just fuckin crazy... why would anyone do it? surely the risks far outweigh the rewards here? there are all kinds of risk involved. Can you imagine if the supplier sent a scheduled chem instead?, not exactly an uncommon practice in the RC scene.

I import all sorts of phyto chemicals every week and some of them could become scheduled at some point. That doesn't make the trading price any better though. A legal substance simply doesn't have the sort of mark up that an illegal one has. My friend was doing the same thing. He had been importing this for a long time and wasn't taking any risks and had no intention of breaking any laws.

As for risks, you are perfectly correct that the overseas suppliers send all sorts of stuff that is contaminated or misidentified. My friend uses the same lab that I use to get everything identified before we import. I need such certificates for reselling to the health industry anyway, so he figured he might as well apply the same principles to his products. These are independent lab reports, not reports from the supplier [which are almost always forged].
Without these procedures the risk would be phenomenal. I had to buy 5 compounds outside of my trusted supplier circle last year - of these 2 were not at all what they were supposed to be [one was an analog of a scheduled drug in australia], 2 were of less than 80% purity despite being supplier certified at 98%, and one was a pure scheduled drug. These were all from the manufacturers directly, so they definitely knew what they were sending.
I would NEVER import anything without getting it analysed first and I never buy anything of any australian supplier that was imported.
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#18 watertrade

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:51 PM

Thanks Torsten,
interesting reading :)
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#19 badwolf

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:54 AM

Jesus, thank christ my am2201 importing days are over, every item inspected by customs, and released to me.

nothing as bulk as 1kg however, never more than 20 grams.

damn insane that read :(
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#20 goldfinger

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:27 AM

Wow .... All I can say is anxiety levels would have been through the roof ... hand me a xanax :)

Thumbs up Torsten stick it to them. Just goes to show my view on the greedy bastards is spot on. Never trust em, keep your mouth shut and call a lawyer and phone a very good friend hey torsten whats your number :worship:

#21 vual

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:07 PM

wow seems like entrapment to me to, interesting to find its not.
great read, thanks for the share.
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#22 ahura999

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:26 PM

ahhhhhhhhhhh all too familiar . DAmned if you do and damned if ya dont . 458 days signing in for bail and counting ...35 yr max sentence import border controlled 307.3.1 .......

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