virginian tobacco ?chop chop
Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:32 PM
-what is known as chop chop ( is this virginian tobacco )
- are the penalties for buying/selling growing severe ?
- how accessible is it ?
- what kind of price do people pay for it ?
I remember many years ago a friend used to purchase a kilo of chop chop for fifty dollars. I would love to get my hands on some.... id even swap some exceptional plants/cacti for a kilo of natural tobacco or even a fair amount of money. But alas this is obviously not going to be possible due to our wonderfull laws against plants here in Oz.. Its such a pity... but anyway... just sitiing here debating these points with a friend and thought the combined knowlede of my SAB brethren may be able to help here. ( to answer these questions )
I know a google search may help... but was hoping someone here had a little more knowledge firsthand on this information..
this is the only topic related i found UTSE http://www.shaman-au...hl=tobacco&st=0 ( but it does not answer all my questions )
any help in obtaining some info on this would be very helpfull
thanks in advance - Tipz
Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:49 PM
Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:51 PM
Edited by thed00dabides, 02 April 2012 - 06:48 PM.
Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:52 PM
Edited by thed00dabides, 02 April 2012 - 06:49 PM.
Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:03 PM
Has anyone here at the forums ever been caught growing chop chop ? I have heard you get in more trouble for it than growing weed ! ( all comes down to market control, taxes and that evil thing called the dollar in the end i suppose )
Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:12 PM
Chop-Chop was purchased from a Turkish market in Auburn not long ago, and the purchaser believes that it wasn't cured properly.
Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:12 PM
The stuff that I have seen people smoke has the unmistakable aroma of virginian tobacco.
-what is known as chop chop ( is this virginian tobacco )
Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:18 PM
I've heard that this problem is common. My suspicion is that the majority of chop-chop out there is probably worse for you than commercial tobacco because it is not regulated in any way. Who knows what people are willing to add to it to try to fast track the curing process. At least commercial tobacco is, for the most part, a known evil. Of course growing your own would be the best if it were legal
the purchaser believes that it wasn't cured properly.
Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:27 PM
i think this is another reason why became scarce but i cant be 100% accurate just an intuitive guess..
Edited by applesnail, 01 April 2012 - 08:35 PM.
Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:41 PM
Posted 01 April 2012 - 09:24 PM
Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:59 AM
Nearly all I've seen has been very 'Virginian' in appearance/texture/aroma/taste, although every now and then a strong dark tobacco would be offered as an alternative when the other was not around.
I smoked it for years before giving up the ciggies, and found it a *much* 'cleaner' smoke then any tailor-mades, to the point where the tailors ended up tasting very 'chemically'. Worth noting that I rolled in papers, not tubes, so no filter for the hand-rolled.
I was told many times that what I purchased was all imported but cannot verify this (and penalties would make that too risky I'd think)
Once whilst out hunting just Nth of the central VIC?N.S.W border I came upon old shearing sheds packed full of curing baccy. Took the old man back for a look (Ihad no idea what it was) but new little of it's worth back then so hadn't thought about it since.
Re growing/using, I was under the impression that it was a tax-avoidance issue, so whilst growing small-scale for pesticide with evidence that bug-killing was it's sole purpose *might* be acceptable, curing would prove intent to smoke and, hence, guilt.
Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:18 AM
Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:04 AM
Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:09 PM
"Chop Chop" is their patent F1 hybrid bright leaf for flue cure diverted from their control - it actually breaks many laws - then Gangs started bringing it in by the container load - then the Cigarette companies discovered (by DNA analysis) that some chopchop was actually some of their best shit ($80 a bale!) diverted by their own execs off the trading floor. That's when they hit the roof! - illicit tobacco growing was gonna spread bluemold - chopchop would run the industry - blah! blah! - prohibition!
I was chatting happily with some native american growers who were absolutely amazed we are not allowed to grow or possess seeds or raw tobacco in more than 250g personal in Australia. In their words "but how does that work? Your government says that you may only have this poison if you buy it off them at high profit? - yet when it gives you disease, it is your fault, they told you better and leave you to fate while they keep the profit."
I explained in Australia we are very much told what to do. We are not the product of forefathers who fought with their lives so their children could walk on the land of their birth free, to live where they like, take whatever company they choose, own possessions and land and grow whatever they choose to grow on their land, rights to privacy, fair arrests, not having to prove who you are or participate in search or analysis etc. We don't even have a bill of rights - we are still rebellious convicts guarded by a corrupt Rum corps anxious to get out.
In Australia only now (that the Government has figured out how to profit) have we been considered mature enough as a society to handle legalised prostitution, pornography, underage drinking, gambling, homosexuality, etc. but not drugs! We are way too irresponsible and immature to handle any sort of drugs and so we have the strictest prohibition...And some of the most bizarre laws. Here we are not given a choice and I'm sure there's a lot of smokers who would give up now - if the govt informed them there was a choice
Now - to give up cigarettes I looked for alternatives. There's hundreds - all commercially banned in Aus. You must buy cigarettes and I estimate the gov. make $17 per pack - I import 250g of tobacco products annually and spend $200 a year on tobacco now, instead of $3000 on cigarettes! I use snuff, snus, chew, pituri, that is oral and nasal daily, shisha hookah weekly and take a few excellent cigars to share at annual corroboree. That's a lot of money in my pocket; my lungs feel fantastic, now I love tobacco! I study all forms of it - except cigarettes.
"Much is written about growing tobacco little about producing it" Sir B.C. Akehurst Tobacco Directing Officer of Rhodesia, Tanzania, etc. until he was kicked out of Africa by civil war a bitter, cynical and displaced man - incredibly knowing - and willing to spill the beans on the international tobacco industry. It is the most amazing, incredible, global conspiracy you have ever heard!
The politics is incredible! (I mean if the Chinese didn't discover America first, how did they have tobacco so early?)
It will amaze you how cannabis and tobacco use have grown up side by side like sisters - one condemned and exploited, because she's fair, honest and innocent; - the other celebrated, glorified, lusted over, because she is filthy, addictive, libertine and dangerous! (see de Sade's "Justine" and "Juliet" series)
So well on my way to being a tobacconista I recommend you do at little research about tobacco with your taste buds and you'll see chopchop for what it is:- unaged, unfermented brightleaf of no character and if grown locally was done so to collect subsidies and to offer back to customs to offset duty on what cigarette companies import from the 3rd world (my worthless opinion).
In this way you will learn what tobacco really tastes and feels like, what you'll never learn from cigarettes. The glories of its varieties, preparations, curing techniques etc. why it is called "nature's own perfume chemist".
In doing so, you will learn that pH changes in fermentation release the aroma and how that aroma relates to strength and quality in alkaloid profile - not that nicotine is everything! But it helps identification.
You see nicotine accumulation in plants is actually a recessive gene. Most populations inbreeding with themselves become "converters" the dominant characteristic. "Converters" don't allow nicotine to accumulate, but convert it to nornicotine. Such plants look the same, smell the same, but no nicotine. It is what we call "sheep dip".
Back Tom Petrie days everyone grew a patch of burley as back up if you ran out of the shop stuff. Hung for years, then "cavandish" cured to plug and still second best. These patches have bred to today, lovely flowers!, but mostly all gone converter hence no nicotine, hence not commercial tobacco which are registered F1 hybrids, the supply, transport,growth of which is highly regulated. You can imagine even the prestigious and diligent Queensland Police Force Drug Squad would have trouble collecting up all the wild "sheep dip" tobacco of rural Queensland as they have collecting those Schedule 9 possessing cane toads.
"Accumulators" besides being a rare mutation are usually more prone to insect attacks (and human too) and don't do well in competition.
Notice I say "plants that accumulate nicotine" and not, say,"N.tabacum var.havanensis White Burley var.OneSucker Kentucky III". Aussies aren't allowed grow N.tabacum, and we can't pick the other 27 native species. Amongst the natives, it is only those few freaks that are "accumulators" that are useful and these individuals had to be discovered and remembered and their knowledge was a great secret. Hence why researchers get inconsistent nicotine results in their study. They need to research with their tastebuds (oh - and a little lime - but with practice you can smell the difference).
All said and done - I have 15 gorgeous plants in my front yard of "Flowering Nicotina" beautiful flowers! - although mine didn't flower, oh dear! perhaps that happens when I keep cutting the buds off. Try again this year with the few million seeds left. So the poor things are just all a few yellow, velvety leaves, sticky, resinous and stinking of vanilla.
Now - it can not possibly be tobacco - probably N.sylvestris or something - because some months back some constables came to visit to ask about some break ins along the street. The plants were right in front of them and they seemed to have no problem with them at face value. Now Queensland Police are highly trained in crime detection and could not see a problem - and they must report a crime if they see it, don't they?
Nicotinia is highly polymorphic - it changes considerably under growing conditions. So much so that often 5 polymorphs of the exact same strain go into a decent cigar - one type for its flavour, one type for its burning qualities, another type for its ash, another for construction and other for appearance. Tobacco processing is an art, a science and a highly guarded secret - with a lot of disinformation to confuse you.
Sorry to write a book here - but it's a favorite topic of mine. Hope you can read between the lines here, because living in Australia I've probably said too much about an ancient, powerful and amoral international "Drug Cartel" quite capable to monitoring me now.
Oh - there's a knock on the door. I wonder who it could be?
Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:37 PM
I had a friend with really bad asthma, he couldn't smoke either tailors or rollies as he'd cough too badly. He could however smoke homegrown tobacco just fine. Well there ya go.
To know is to be cursed with knowing.
Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:00 PM
and also have a quick peep at this:
Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:50 PM
whats this domingo you speak of d00d ?
100% Virginian tobacco which is additive free, your local tobaconist should be able to order it for you, 17 bucks for 25grams
*edit cant type
Edited by thed00dabides, 02 April 2012 - 06:52 PM.
Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:01 PM
Keeping in mind I do not know what the 'withdrawn' statement means, and that this is 12 years old, interested arties may wish to undertake their own consultations to determine current legislation, the key components of this factual case study are as follows:
Home growing of tobacco
Will the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) issue excise licences under section 39A of the Excise Act 1901 (EA) to persons who grow tobacco and process tobacco for smoking where the tobacco is to be grown and processed for the person's own personal use?
While applications for excise licences issued under section 39A of the EA are always considered on their merits, it is unlikely that the ATO would issue such licences in circumstances where the applicant proposes to grow tobacco at a domestic residence for personal consumption.
Advice was sought from the ATO as to whether it would issue excise licences to a person who wishes to grow tobacco in the garden of his personal residence for personal consumption.
The applicant proposed to grow, cure and chop the tobacco at his residence for his own consumption. In order to do this without breaching the EA the person would require a producer licence and a manufacturer licence.
The applicant indicated that he expected that he would not be required to pay excise duty in circumstances where he grew, processed and smoked the tobacco himself.
Reasons for Decision
Duty is imposed on leaf tobacco at the rate set out in the Schedule to the Excise Tariff Act 1921 . The ATO has no power to grant an exemption from the statutory liability of entities to pay excise duty on excisable tobacco.
In the event that a person who grows tobacco for private use is willing to pay the duty on the tobacco he or she produces domestically, he or she may apply under section 39 of the EA for:
(a) a producer licence to grow the tobacco; and ( a manufacturer licence to cut the cured tobacco and prepare it for smoking.The Collector may, under section 39A of the Excise Act, refuse to issue the relevant licences if, for example:
· the applicant is not a 'fit and proper person'; · the physical security of the premises is not adequate; · the applicant would not be able to keep proper books of account to enable the ATO to adequately audit the books and records; · refusal is necessary to protect the revenue.The following considerations would arise in determining whether to grant excise licences in these circumstances:
· The security of arrangements at domestic premises are not usually of an adequate standard to protect against theft or accidental loss of the tobacco, and the cost of arranging security to the necessary standard is not justified where it is proposed to grow a very small amount of tobacco for personal use. · The EA provides a right of access to ATO offices 'at all times' to check the stock of tobacco leaf of a producer or dealer, to examine and take account of the goods and crops, and to take samples of material and partly manufactured excisable goods. For this reason licences are usually issued in respect of premises which are not used as a domestic residence. · The comprehensive regulatory scheme contained in the EA is designed to prevent erosion of the excise revenue. The licensing of individual domestic residences for tobacco production is contrary to the scheme of the EA as supervising tobacco production in a large number of small sites is not viable with regard to the monitoring and auditing functions which are necessary for the protection of the excise revenue.While each application for an excise licence is determined on its merits it is likely that, having regard to section 39A of the EA and the intention of the legislation, the Collector would refuse to issue excise licences to an applicant who proposes to grow tobacco at a domestic residence for personal consumption.
Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:33 PM
Clearly though, the volume of the operations' output could never be argued as personal consumption (not that I am suggesting that it is legal to grow for personal consumption).
Several Nicotiana species arise from the very small & plentiful seeds blowing in from somewhere else, as was the case for another friend's backyard, and within a couple of ears there were dozens, getting no attention but thriving. If people happen to be victims of nature's will, and are not found to have any curing paraphernalia on the premises, then they are just weeds, right? Not every person can be expected to have n the skills or the interest to identify plant species.
It would also not be illegal too be in possession of curing paraphernalia when there is no tobacco growing on the premises.
Landholder networking often becomes an invaluable resource pool for our botanical interests. Johnny keeps the bees, and Michael makes the candles.
Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:50 AM
Getting back to the virginia question:- Virginia is more of a curing process than a variety - nearly any tobacco can be virginianed - but Maryland and burley cultivars do best. The 3 day flash cure of the flue (oest in Australia) makes it yellow (if not, the maleic hydrazide and ethylene they use will), enzyme denatured (no chance of natural aging or fermenting) and still full of starch and high levels of reducing sugars (so it must go to the processor, and not diverted) so it molds easily.
Starch is nearly unique to virginia, all other cure techniques keep the tissue alive long enough to break down starch, proteins, develop carotenes, flavanoids aroma percursors and start breaking up the perfume from its pectin bonds - proper baccy!
Now remember back at school where you tested for starch in your potato by putting iodine solution on it, and it went blue?
Same deal, bloke!
The high level of reducing sugars is the real diagnostic test - as some dark fire cures have a little starch, but are very different in color, smell, price and availability! Have you heard of Benedict's solution, or other redox reagents?
I'm still curious if the average person could honestly recognize the-plant-used-in-the-manufacture-of-tobacco if it was growing right in front of them - without its flowers. Many tobacco experts have been confused by some of the natives I've shown them.
Prehaps I could send a bouquet of purple flowers, lovely flowers!, to the customs, BALC, quarrantine officials I've sent out of their minds by ordering foreign tobacco products item by item. (Sniffer dogs don't like Irish High Toast Snuff, but they do like F&T's Prince Snuff - I think its the pheromone affect of the civet, tonquin, ambergris and musk that does that.)
Would it be illegal to make a competition out of who can grow a plant in the most obvious spot as photographically evidenced?...N.amplexia on Moura football field doesn't count. (God bless the rains.)
I'd offer a box of Romeo y Julieta Petit Coronas hecho a mano Cuban cigars as prize - or White Ox depending which side of the law the winner lands on.
Amazing facts about tobacco:- Tobacco smoke contains the illegal Schedule 9 drug Harmine at about 10% - produced in the same pyrolytic reactions that destroy half the nicotine and produce the nitroamine, TPC, poison. The harmine's indole stains smokers fingers the same nice orange that B.caapi dyes make. The harmine is actually part of the smoker's high and is of course not found in chewed tobacco, a totally different experience. Hence why the two races of man that have used nicotine for millenia, Americans and Australian aboriginals, chew or sniff it for stimulation, and smoke it - with its attendant harmine - occasionally for a more mystical experience.
Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:17 AM
I'm curious if the term "Domingo" is correct and you don't mean "Dominica" - which, as the name implies, is an origin, not a variety?
Yeah - Macedonian oriental latakia is the best in the world! Tiny little leaves with free petioles, low in nicky, rich,rich in flavour! Hand reared! They hang it up like christmas decorations in the street to cure! Then anoint it with the smoke of oak, sumac and cypress for ages.Did you say they sauce it? Double delightful! Latakia sauce "in sous" is used to give the Oriential note to the flavorless virginia of expensive cigarettes like Camel and Marlborough. A little macedonian goes a long way!
Amazing fact about tobacco:- In the 18thC American colonial men could buy an English white woman for her weight in tobacco! This was to offset the her weight from the tobacco cargo it would normally carry. It was standardized to 170lb with a surcharge for a "heavier" bride - that apparently they were happy to pay for their darling.
Edited by Pat Uri, 13 April 2012 - 03:24 PM.