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Distracted

Drying out phyloids.

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Hi!

I'm just curious what the best way to dry out phyllodes for longtime preservation is. I'm interested in the phyllodes being preserved with no loss or change to any organic matter.

My first thought was to put them into a dehydrator, could that damage the structure of the molecules within the phyllodes? I want the preserved leaves to be as scientifically accurate as possible.

Is air drying sufficient?

Thanks!

edit: really stupid spelling mistake

Edited by Distracted
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just left in the sun is usually fine, another way could be with a few dessicants inside a sealed plastic sandwitch bag* edit i've never tried this second way though so can't be sure, just a guess

Edited by bulls on parade

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Hmmm I wasn't sure whether to put this in native plants or the chemistry section... somehow i ended up putting it in the ethnobotany section! Sorry about that.

If you could put them in a bag with dessicants you should be able to bung them in the dehydrator I think.

I'm not sure whether the speed of drying will effect the quality of the leaf afterwards.

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what about the shape of the phyllodes? if you don't press them, many of them will, be not flat.

but i guess this is not a concern of yours...

i would not use the sun.

if it's a warm, non humid day, than drying in the open would be the way.

if not use the stove, on very little heat.

than store with a dessicant.

the warmth/heat, might change the profile a bit.

if you don't use warmth, than time will change the profile.

chlorophyll and other organics can't be preserved at all.

i speculate, that one can't dry plant matter without changing or loosing the compounds it's made of.

in short, death is perfect, hehehe!

you might be able to, keep them in the original state, by deep freezing, but you said drying.

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Chuck it in a big cardboard box, close the lid but not overly tight, shake the box 1 a day till its dry.

Stick em in a mesh bag (orange/onion bag) shake around 1 a day till its dry. Keep it in the shade.

They do'nt realy contain a great deal of moisture so mold should'nt be a prob.

Ps. atrocious spelling. Phyllode for searchability :P

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Cheers, i'm not sure why i didn't double check my spelling... because i swore i had already spelt it a different wrong way, then saw that spelling and used that instead :/

I think I may use the box method, that sounds the best to me. I couldn't find anyone anywhere talking about using a dehydrator so that must be for a reason. Empty boxes are a lot cheaper than running that thing anyway.

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Chuck it in a big cardboard box, close the lid but not overly tight, shake the box 1 a day till its dry.

Stick em in a mesh bag (orange/onion bag) shake around 1 a day till its dry. Keep it in the shade.

They do'nt realy contain a great deal of moisture so mold should'nt be a prob.

Ps. atrocious spelling. Phyllode for searchability :P

 

sounds good what you say, but you haven't addressed any of the variable factors.

this might work, with very few phyllodes, but not if you have them in quantety,

your phyllodes will go moldy, if you try, to dry more than a handfull of them with above methode.

not even the onionbag methode is save.

and who can say, they will never forget to shake once a day.

above methode has many, many risk factors.

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I should say I'm talking from experience, Has worked for me & others with much larger quantities than a handful. Even left a 10L bucket worth without shaking (not cause of forgetfullness just was'nt there to shake it), turned out fine, no mold. So I know it does work.

Have used it with fleshier leaves than phyllodes with good success may need to increase the shaking to a couple times a day though. Even a paper bag with small quantities upto a few handfuls.

You could chuck in a bowl of damprid & take it out before shaking if you had any troubles but in most cases it should'nt be necessary.

Its not idiotproof but certainly not rocket science.

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this methode doesn't work when it's raining for day's, or when it's humid, above poster only tries to hummiliate me.

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Wash the sand out of your gina princess & stop being so damn egotestical :P

You do'nt need any help to make you look bad or feel humiliated you do a very good job all by yourself.

The guy was looking for practical advice & thats what I gave him, you tried to pick it apart & made bullshit statements like "your phyllodes will go moldy, if you try, to dry more than a handfull of them with above methode." so I set him straight based on my knowledge. To those with a grip on reality it should be clear my intention was to help the guy out while your intentions are more than questionable.

Like I said its not idiotproof but even an idiot should be able to work out its not going to work the best when non stop raining, so pick a more oportune time to do it. But if you have no choice & no dehydrator just shake it more and use some damp rid I reckon you could make it work if you put a litttle thought into it in almost any situation.

Sorry peeps, I said I would stop feeding the troll... I shall endeavour to stick to my word a little more strictly.

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The guy was looking for practical advice & thats what I gave him, you tried to pick it apart & made bullshit statements like "your phyllodes will go moldy, if you try, to dry more than a handfull of them with above methode." so I set him straight based on my knowledge. To those with a grip on reality it should be clear my intention was to help the guy out while your intentions are more than questionable.

I have had plant matter go moldy using a cardboard box and multiple layers of leaves between shredded paper, Your intention is to help and you were only being helpful up until;

You do'nt need any help to make you look bad or feel humiliated you do a very good job all by yourself.

Planthelper wasn't trying to disregard your word, he just put his oppinion out and I am guessing like I said having a previous experience with plant matter growing mold using a proccess not much unlike the one you described above. He was only doing exactly what you and I both intend to do which is help, he was being more helpful by saying this method has many risks such as phyllodes going moldy

And in my experience the best way to dry phyllodes is in the open air evenly spread on a shallow tray cover by a dish or cheese cloth (highly breathable material that will keep dust out of the tray) during a nice hot summers week

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"Planthelper wasn't trying to disregard your word, he just put his oppinion out and I am guessing like I said having a previous experience with plant matter growing mold using a proccess not much unlike the one you described above. He was only doing exactly what you and I both intend to do which is help, he was being more helpful by saying this method has many risks such as phyllodes going moldy"

Wether he tried to or not, he did. If he had stated it was his opinion (like you) I would'nt have a problem but he presented it as fact (something he has accused me of in another thread without evidence :rolleyes: ) when it is only opinion & this misrepresentation is unhelpful.

I agree your method is fine but its hard to scale up unless you have a buttload of trays & places to put them...

With your cardboard box were you able to shake it like that?, redistributing the moisture & surface area is realy beneficial...

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Hmm I suppose that is true, although people can misinterprate things through the internet.

You used ittalics when stating that "you know it does" work whereas I would take that as you saying that it is for a fact, to which I would reply "No! I have had phyllodes go moldy on me before using the same method".

But seeing as you stated that there has been a previous whatever in another thread leaves me to just say I could have improved results and probably prevented mold if I had layered the phyllodes between the shredded paper more evenly and perhaps having less leaves overlapping would have helped prevent moisture and in turn mold, I didn't shake the box either.

I only have a shallow baking tray with a cheesecloth over it and I am only ever drying small amounts of material, if I needed to dry something out in bulk I would do as Ph said and put it in the oven on low temp and watch them crisp, but in saying that I would still keep them out of any airtight containers for a week or two (something like a paper lunch bag or a small cardboard box)

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shruman, you got massive double standards, and you are unable to see your mistake, even when other people do so.

all i wanted is, to avoid that people, end up with moldy pyhllodes.

but all you wanted, is to pick a fight with me. :BANGHEAD2:

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a few dessicants inside a sealed plastic sandwitch bag

 

this method doesn't work, leads to this

a5c45.jpg

live and learn

Edited by bulls on parade

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My first thought was to put them into a dehydrator, could that damage the structure of the molecules within the phyllodes? I want the preserved leaves to be as scientifically accurate as possible.

Is air drying sufficient?

It does depend on the species and the end purpose you're storing them for. Are you storing them for botanical ID or for chemical analysis at a later date?

If it's for ID or a plant library you want cool dry air, air conditioning is good for a lot of species.

If it's for an initial analysis of unknown compounds I'd go for liquid nitrogen so as to avoid degradation of compounds, and not worry about the leaf structure

Etc.

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soo did anyone answer the question of what would be the best way to dry them out during winter, when it is cold and raining ?

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How about a fan heater? Used to work well with mushrooms for me. But the phyllodes do just dry themselves gradually, if not allowed to mould.

They seem to be still 'fine' after a few months or longer.

Edited by phyllode

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I'm not interested in getting involved in a disagreement but like to preserve specimens. I have had no trouble drying Acacia phyllodes in newspaper by changing it every day for a while, so would like to know if Distracted is keeping other types of plants as specimens or for other uses. Are there such things as fleshy phyllodes?. I've never had much luck preserving fleshy leaves.

Kent.

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