19 replies to this topic

[∂an]

heard about this guy a few years ago, and then came across this interview by Rak Razaam.

Experiential journalist Rak Razam talks with Kilindi, an African-American warrior-teacher who works with psilocybin mushrooms as entheogenic guides in the mapping of the inner realms. Where Terence McKenna posited five dried grams as the 'heroic dose', Kilindi regularly takes 20-30 dried grams and goes deeper than most people have experienced, right to the core bardos of existence. His background with martial arts /warfare training colors his approach to exploring innerspace, drawing upon his African ur-shamanism lineage. What are the dangers of colonizing the invisible landscape and encountering interdimensional entities? Could territorial battles result in a 'West Bank of hyperspace?' as humans found 'interdimensional villages'? Does the mushroom access an interdimensional library of translinguistic information that underpins our physical reality? Does it have an agenda and are we ourselves being absorbed by it's mycellium consciousness? Join this fascinating discussion about high doses towards an organic singularity as humans re-engineer themselves into higher consciousness by synergizing the morphenogenic field through the mycellium network…

I am fascinated with his ability to convey the reality of entity encounters in mushroom space. The concept of malevolent entities seeking the energy of unprepared explorers who have bitten off more than they could chew, so to speak, brings back some intense memories. And whats the deal with the preying mantis? They seem to be such a common theme into reports to the other side, and dreams. This talk has motivated me to further explore the art of 'self defence', both physical and mental.

Are the entities that inhabit these spaces dead souls? Future souls? Another aspect of living creatures? What is their relationship to this organic matrix? Is their some sort of spirit world / organic world symbiosis going on? Or is it more a parasitic relationship? Any thoughts?

Edit: And did anyone see him talk at EGA? What was his talk about?

Edited by kalika, 09 February 2012 - 06:36 AM.

[Distracted]

He said we as a society need more people retreating in isolation and taking large doses and experiencing ... things.


Unfortunately I only saw the last 10 minutes of his talk but asked him after the talk about the doses... he said to start with 9g cubes minimum and go from there.

[EntheoAssassin]

Holy crap. That's a steep learning curve.

[hava]

i would imagine 9g to be an end of me, not a start...

is this interview or any of his mushroom philosophy available as text transcript rather than audio?

[self organising systems]

cheers for posting

[holymountain]

I checked out his talk at EGA this year. Very interesting. Essentially covered similar things that he spoke about with Rak. That we as a species need to explore these areas and start working towards a singularity.

Overall, it's great to hear someone talking about this stuff. No one covers things like warfare in hyperspace and most don't mention the mantis men. Understandably it's strange enough talking about mushrooms to some people let alone telling them the types of experiences that are possible.

I myself have had run in's with Mantis men several times on high doses and can definitely relate to being fed off by bigger entities. A bit of reading on astral travelling, magick, banishing and shamanic techniques such as shape shifting, invisibility or mantras can help out a lot if you find yourself in these situations. Getting yourself some allies in the spirit world helps as well. You can call upon them for assistance if you need.


I used to try and fight any hostile beings off. Now I just go invisible or visualise a ball of white light protecting me. It usually works and is the standard procedure in ceremonial magick or astral travelling.

This is what shamans have done for thousands of years, but it takes an experience of being attacked by Cthonic insectoids to help you to take it seriously.


For the record I've not gone over 15 dried grams of cubes. That was plenty enough, definitely broke through some boundaries though I don't doubt there are many more still unexplored.

Lucky we got guys like Kilindi out there doing this work!

[etherealdrifter]

luckily,...i'm blessed to always have preying mantis in the garden and when i stop to pick one up onto my hand, i feel the connection as it twists its head(almost as tho it's cocking it's head to one side to listen) - the cute little bugger
the mantisman/woman beings in the alternate world is very strong to me and provides much mind ammunition for firing up the the thought cannon in my 'awaking state'
the concept of an infinite,limitless boundary is just that,
an infinate array of unknowns that need pushing...............just a little more everytime man
where is the boundary?

when i was younger, i found that working at harnessing my astral travelling powers put me in good stead for the shroom journeys that lay before me

[∂an]

i would imagine 9g to be an end of me, not a start...

is this interview or any of his mushroom philosophy available as text transcript rather than audio?

No I can only find a transcript regarding his martial arts philosophy.

At first I was skeptical as this 'I do 20 to 30g' talk sounds a bit egotistical. But he comes across quite humble really, and seems to advocate such high doses to achieve a certain effect rather than prove how tough he is.

at the same time it worries me that people will wipe themselves out by hearing that some people like Kilindi can take these massive doses. as much as exploring hyperspace is important, sanity is more so.

10g's can be a challenge to return with sanity intact... hold the clear light or the shapeshifting sorcerer drifting through the forest will find me, etc. there really is an art to navigating these psychic planes.

luckily,...i'm blessed to always have preying mantis in the garden and when i stop to pick one up onto my hand, i feel the connection as it twists its head(almost as tho it's cocking it's head to one side to listen) - the cute little bugger

yeah I have always though preying mantis are the coolest critters, very fascinating. however after being 'killed' by a not so friendly one in a dream I have thought twice about letting them seep to deeply into my consciousness...

Edited by kalika, 09 February 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[etherealdrifter]

maybe it killed you for a reason.................................... of rebirthing to purify and.........................continue further up the ladder

[∂an]

maybe it killed you for a reason.................................... of rebirthing to purify and.........................continue further up the ladder

ya... i think i was being punished for my stupidity after a large od.

Edited by kalika, 10 February 2012 - 06:22 AM.

[holymountain]

at the same time it worries me that people will wipe themselves out by hearing that some people like Kilindi can take these massive doses. as much as exploring hyperspace is important, sanity is more so.

one look at the dude and i'm sure most people will realise he's a big bigger and stronger than most people, he's well trained in martial arts and shamanism. i wouldn't go anywhere near that dose unless i was a kung fu master and had my shit together spiritually and physically. i don't think you could do it unless you did. and i'm sure one look at the amount of 20-30g dried will make most people question if they can even get that into their bodies.

that said, some of the experiences he mentioned can be achieved through as little as 5-8g of cubes or even 2g of subs. so be careful everyone, you don't have to take massive doses to find yourself in strange places.

no doubt that praying manti are cool. when i see them in the garden i take the time to talk with them or give my respects. they are much nicer in their earthly physical representations, when you are dealing with them in your world and they are only tiny little insects. but if you come crashing in to their dimension, best to be nice because they can do a lot of things there that they can't do here. and if you've ever squashed one out in the garden, you just might meet his pissed off brother!

[Distracted]

I;ve always maintained that the only difference between a 3.5g cube dose and 5g+ is the time it takes for the patterns to become apparent.

For example...

At 5g it'll take you x minutes to achieve Y
at 2g it'll take you 3x minutes to achieve Y

I proposed that to him and he said it all changes 9g +, completely different ballpark. I can't really comment on that yet as i haven't done those sorts of heroic doses.


I still haven't listened to the podcast yet.. but it's on the plan for sure.


Anyone remember chirals thread about his high dose experience with mantises? hmmmmmmm

[cacti jihadist]

I have pushed those 30gm boundaries.... what occured i will not even begin to explain ( typical entities - oneness - fleeting divine knowledge and comprehension and synesthesia ) unexplainable really.

But i will say I could not discern much difference between 20 and 30 grams dried ( talking local adelaide subs ). Although i have pushed twenty twice - once with molly alongside, and i must say that was a much warmer and more comfortable experience.

It's a big ocean out there !

(edit - no mantis' for me but definite recollections of things of an insectoid nature )

Edited by tipz, 10 February 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[chilli]

Sounds like this guy is a "hard head" that needs higher doses to get the same effects someone else would get from much less.

Different people can have vastly different responses to psychedelics, and 30g of mushrooms for one person might equate to 10g for another, or even 3g for someone who is very sensitive.

For this reason, encouraging someone to start at 9g of dried mushrooms, or implying that a deeper journey only begins at such a dose seems irresponsible.

Supposed to be studying but instead am listening to the audio now.

Edited by chilli, 10 February 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[chnt]

i got close to 9g on my 2nd try cause the first was very anti-climactic, i'd like to one day go for 20 in perhaps that amount of years

Edited by chnt, 10 February 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[chilli]

I've just been listning to some of it, and it sounds like he thinks 5g is still pretty full on, with full immersion, entity contact etc.. maybe he is not just a hard head, maybe he is just hard core.

Still, I would urge caution.

Anyway I listened to the end of it.. some interesting spun out ideas come out at the end where he talks about machines as being an extension of nature and the earth using mushroom technology to upload human consciousness so the earth can live on after the sun goes supernova or something.

Edited by chilli, 11 February 2012 - 06:09 AM.

[cacti jihadist]

You would need to eat more than half of your body weight in magic mushrooms to physically overdose on them, so that is physically impossible.

that being said, it is very well possible to psychologically overdose on them, and have a trip that is psychologically overwhelming.

This is something i worked my up to over many years

I wouldnt say this classifies me as hardcore or a hardhead, I like to push the boundaries with everything i do and like to think i know my limitations. Whenever i venture this far into the realms it is always a solo journey that i physically and mentally prepare for, for some time leading up too launch day. My set and settings are also very carefully chosen.

I too would not recommend such a high dose to the uninitiated.

But If your of sound mind and spiritually strong and know what your getting yourself in for, my saying is that you have not had enough, unless you think you have had too many

( edit - thanks for that podcast BTW - that was awesome. I suppose you dont know what music that was playing in the background ? so basey and ambient ! )

Edited by tipz, 11 February 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[dionysus]

i have seen people eat less than a gram and still end up saying things like 'what have i done' or 'why did i eat so much'. some people really shouldn't be going for the 5 gram mark let alone going to 30. i am glad only people already interested will find this interview etc becase i can imagine some uneducated feller going 'oh cool, this guy eats 30 grams and sees mantis dudez i totally want to do that' and suffering permanent psychological damage.

how qualitatively different are these sorts of large doses compaired to 5-6 grams worth? at this level has been the only time i have experienced audible hallucinations and i felt like i was at the threshold of another plain of existence, as if i were slightly too fat to fit through the door. if a little more would take me through this threshhold it certainly sounds like something to look into and work towards for one day in the distant future...

thanks for sharing

[ThunderIdeal]

last ten or so mushroom meetings have said "not enough, more next time!!"

most of us probably agree that just because you've done x grams once doesn't mean you have conquered the x grams mark!!! however if you have x grams and feel like you needed more to get where you're going, that might be an indicator to keep increasing your dose in small increments.

[curaezipirid]

OK, here I am speaking as a woman who once had done a LOT of mushies and saw NOTHING,
as a woman who got tricked into smoking hammer over twenty years later and just didn't like being quite that high, . . .

I had my main rant about Kilindi's interview with Rak, in Rak's Facebook wall just the other day, so now its gone and got itself boring for me.

But isn't the BIG point Kilindi is making, that it is just at that border between the experience being cool, and it being terrifying, where too many people tend to back off, but where he says go harder; and therefore he is saying FACE YOUR FEARS.

If we don't know what we have to fear, then we fall into enacting and re-enacting that exact fear. Only by knowing what we fear, can we avoid what we fear. The only way to know what we fear, is to face our fears.

So what was I afraid of when I took mushies? Ahhh, that was those stories about people who take trips and never get back straight again.

What happened? Did I see anything? NO. But did I ever get straight again? NO. Did the trip ever end? No.


I like what Kilindi had to say, I like it a lot
I like his yarn about discerning and naming what markers we find in the combined phenomenon of our collective subconscious minds, and the levels of the realms of heavens and hells in the sky


Because if we never find evidence of those markers, and of other folk having also experienced, how could anybody who ever took any entheogenic substance, ever be sane.

Normally how we define what is unique between one culture and another, is only the sets of ways we have found within which such markers in the ether, are relatable with the physical conditions of the world around us. Which is what religions are for basically, in cataloguing those markers, and classifying the various sequences within which the subconscious mind can encounter such phenomenon and retain good mental health.

In the example Kilindi gives, of one time everybody saw something RED, but for one person it will be a red dog, but for another it is a red flag, . . . . there are two different psychological phenomenon interacting. The two phenomenon are symbols and signs. The sign is what everybody in every culture witnesses no matter what their belief is, so the sign is the colour red, manifesting as a defined fact. The symbols vary depending upon ethnicity, which might be like a combination of genetics, culture, and religion of ancestors.

So could I not see because I was not looking, or because I did not want to see, . . . or maybe because I needed to be already over 40 and well trained in the psychology of religious experiences, to sustain sanity in what I will see.

I enjoyed the gym this morning!

Edited by curaezipirid, 14 February 2012 - 12:27 PM.