Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Cissus antarctica medicinal use or constituents?

water vine kangaroo vine medicinal

  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Darklight

Darklight

    Look- over there- it's Elvis!

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Space, man :)
  • Interests:Plants. They're magic!
  • Climate or location:Dry s/tropical, frost

Posted 25 January 2012 - 03:18 PM

Hey all

I'm doing some informal research for a mate ( ie for free ) on Cissus antarctica and it's possible medicinal uses

I've googled and done a publication search which has so far turned up nothing, though a related species Cissus quadrangularis, a succulent vine plant native to India, has a history of medicinal use


http://www.ehow.com/...is-extract.html

Family is Vitaceae, was wondering whether there are any potential nasties as constituents which I should avoid

Will share results if I have permission, there may be IP issues but I doubt it

DL


( Edited for stupid embarrassing spelling mistakes )

Edited by Darklight, 25 January 2012 - 03:23 PM.

All the theories in the world won't help if you don't run an experiment. Just do it. And take good notes

#2 tarenna

tarenna

    Senior Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPipPip
  • 500 posts
  • Climate or location:Northern NSW

Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:09 PM

Not medicinal, but I understand that the fruit of Cissus antarctica contains high concentrations of oxalic acid.

#3 tripsis

tripsis

    misanthropic biophile

  • Trusted Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,000 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:Warm temperate

Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:20 PM

the fruit of Cissus antarctica contains high concentrations of oxalic acid


Do you have a reference for that information tarenna?
Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly. Edward O. Wilson 1992

Donít believe all this crap you hear about primitive people and their lovely equilibrium with the environment. All societies disturbed the environment to the extent of their population and the technology available. They're the only two things that matter - population and the technology available. John Pickard 2011

#4 tarenna

tarenna

    Senior Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPipPip
  • 500 posts
  • Climate or location:Northern NSW

Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:42 PM

Still looking for the Australian books where I have read it - but you could check out: Altschul, S. von R. (1973) Drugs and Foods from Little-Known Plants. Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard Univ. Press.

#5 tripsis

tripsis

    misanthropic biophile

  • Trusted Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4,000 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:Warm temperate

Posted 26 January 2012 - 08:10 AM

Thanks.
Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly. Edward O. Wilson 1992

Donít believe all this crap you hear about primitive people and their lovely equilibrium with the environment. All societies disturbed the environment to the extent of their population and the technology available. They're the only two things that matter - population and the technology available. John Pickard 2011

#6 Darklight

Darklight

    Look- over there- it's Elvis!

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Space, man :)
  • Interests:Plants. They're magic!
  • Climate or location:Dry s/tropical, frost

Posted 27 January 2012 - 06:12 PM

Many thanks there, I'll keep looking. Seems to be a pretty useful plant


A tree-based book called Phantastica ( which I'll need to find ) reckons Tasmanian Aboriginals used the fruit to ferment a kind of alcohol. The book was printed in 1998 and is poorly referenced from the little I've seen, so I'd love to know where that information came from


Better still, from: http://www.google.co...hmaNeIwHWnYCd8Q

‘The ripe, sour fruits are picked from the vine and mixed with
water and nectar. The old fruits which fall to the ground later
become slightly sweeter.These are then gathered for food. The
unripe fruit is used for stomach complaints. The ripe fruit
season for this plant, indicates bandicoot, ground-feeding
birds, black snake and swamp wallaby can be caught in the
area feeding.’ (Mason 2001) Stems were used by the Bundjalung
as waist bands for climbing tall trees (DEC 2003). Cissus sp. is
possibly the vine mentioned as ‘supplejack’ by French-Angas
(1850) for climbing cabbage tree palms.
All the theories in the world won't help if you don't run an experiment. Just do it. And take good notes

#7 planthelper

planthelper

    ***

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:oz dry 240m, zone 10

Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:59 AM

maybe better search terms like native grape, or kangaroo vine on top of the latin name!

because the other cissus are such a popular houshold plant, your searches get badly influenced (a common google problem).
My Didgeridoo song

the mediator between head and hands must be the heart.

#8 Darklight

Darklight

    Look- over there- it's Elvis!

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Space, man :)
  • Interests:Plants. They're magic!
  • Climate or location:Dry s/tropical, frost

Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:44 PM

Thanks pH, I did narrow my search terms by adding words like 'traditional use' and 'medicinal' and got more results, but information is still thin on the ground

There is a wonderful series of pamphlets on traditionally used food and medicine here:

Actually the whole site is really good: www.arrawarraculture.com.au

Facts sheets are here:
http://www.arrawarra...eets/index.html

I spoke to the Elder who passed on her knowledge of the plant to me and she reckons it's fine to share ( The Gumbaynggir people are known as 'the sharing people' ) so I'm happy, even obliged, to share what I'm learning. Not a bad thing, thanks Aunty!

Cissus antarctica grows in proximity to Smilax glyciphylla:
http://www.noosanati...lax-glyciphylla on the coastal range from the tip of FNQ down to as far south as southern NSW

Usually they grow within a few metres of each other, find one and the other isn't far off. So far I've only found one Smilax that doesn't have a Cissus near it, and that was on really disturbed ground with a domestic fence over it. There's heaps of them round here!

Apparently the story is that Smilax barbs once caught a man and he cursed it, saying the vine would be separated from Cissis forever. But that didn't work as they are such good friends and still grow together today. Hope I got that right

Cissus antarctica was described to me as a 'tonic', the parts I was told were most effective are the young leaves, especially the reddish ones. The term 'tonic' is a bit pharmacologically outdated ( I think in Western Medicine it means 'something we won't research cos we can't make any money on it' ). But it's used to promote health Apparently a young leaf or two a day is a good dose.


Other plants in this genus have traditional medicinal uses in other countries. From Wikipedia Cissus quadrangularis has been evaluated for potential medical uses

Pic here: http://en.wikipedia...._antarctica.jpg

The plant has lots of other uses, but I'm not personally familiar with the whole list. I hope to learn a lot more about both species tho as I've really bonded with this one

Have taken the young leaves twice, both after heavy nights, and have felt some relief from the usual headaches and blurriness and been able to focus better. This could, of course, be placebo, but if the First Peoples here have no troubles using leaves daily for long stretches I figure it's gotta be worth a go. So it's a couple of young leaves from different plants first thing before food every morning, I pick them when I walk the puppy. Feeling pretty good, energy and mood have both improved in the last week so I'll continue for as long as I can find good leaves without stressing local populations


First few times it tasted soapy, which was intriguing and a bit worrying. Now after lots of rain it tastes more ascorbic-y. Of course season and weather will affect constituents, but maybe I'm used to the taste now

Now I'm intrigued as to what's in it. Not that a reductionist approach will explain everything, but it's piqued my curiousity. Stay tuned :)

Us Europeans have destroyed so much on this continent, every time I get a cool piece of information like this I'm both happy and sad. Happy cos people are sharing good things, and sad, like for the Sibylline books and the human cost of what and who were lost

All the theories in the world won't help if you don't run an experiment. Just do it. And take good notes

#9 planthelper

planthelper

    ***

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:oz dry 240m, zone 10

Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:18 AM

this is the best pic for id'ing i could find:


http://www.flickr.co...man/3663819465/

i think, i even saw it, at my place, but chances are, i remeber it from, when i lived, closer to various rainforests and noosa.
i'll keep my eyes peeled at my next walk.
My Didgeridoo song

the mediator between head and hands must be the heart.

#10 Darklight

Darklight

    Look- over there- it's Elvis!

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Space, man :)
  • Interests:Plants. They're magic!
  • Climate or location:Dry s/tropical, frost

Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:58 AM

Anyone tried this yet?
All the theories in the world won't help if you don't run an experiment. Just do it. And take good notes

#11 tonic

tonic

    1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,338 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GAIA
  • Interests:ethnobotany, plants, especially cacti and australian natives and fungi....
  • Climate or location:1įC - 40įC

Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

Regarding the association of Smilax glychiphylla and Cissus antartica. I would have to disagree to a certain extent. Where I live there are many Smilax glychiphylla but Cissus antartica isn't something that you will see really at all. Maybe a couple of plants, and not growing with Smilax glychiphylla at all, though would be more common to see it growing with Smilax australis. More common association I would note would be the one of Smilax glychiphylla and Cissus hypoglauca, although this is just from my particular area. This has been a common observation of mine though, and not just my area. Saw a bunch of Cissus antartica a couple of weeks ago growing in sub tropical rainforest, didn't note any Smilax glychiphylla at all, but did note some Duibosia myoporoides, Eupomatia laurina, Citriobatus pauciflorus syn. Pittosporum and Diploglottis australis, amonst other plants of some interest (most if not all plants are of interest to me though).

Cissus antartica " The fruits are edible when mature, but rather acid, Aborigines used the stems as an aid for climbing trees by placing a long loop around both the trunk and the climber".

Edited by tonic, 15 April 2012 - 11:33 AM.

There he sits, at the idol's feet, with breadfruit and grease and jabberwocky prayers.

#12 Darklight

Darklight

    Look- over there- it's Elvis!

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,460 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Space, man :)
  • Interests:Plants. They're magic!
  • Climate or location:Dry s/tropical, frost

Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

Oops, you are spot on with the association thing, that was my error, not Auntie's. Thanks for bringing it to my attention

Cissus antarcticus and Smilax australis it is
All the theories in the world won't help if you don't run an experiment. Just do it. And take good notes

#13 Halcyon Daze

Halcyon Daze

    BOOM!!!

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,786 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Climate or location:subtropical

Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

Hey thanks for the fact sheets, I really like the idea of fact sheets for indigenous knowledge.

As for eating the leaves, I've never done it but I've eaten plenty of fruits. The trick is find a vine with superior fruits because most are pretty damn ordinary.

I have C. antartica and C. hypoglaucain the garden, I just scattered a couple hundred fruits around one year and they started coming up EVERYWHERE! I'll have to try the young leaves and see what happens lol.

Just out of interest, we get these huge hawkmoth caterpillars on the C. antartica every year, but not on the C. hypoglauca. Each caterpillar being more spectacularly coloured than the last. The birds really love them so I don't think they have a lot of stored poisons inside, like many other large brightly coloured caterpillars often do. Here's the only photo I could find for now. It's a very pale one but I have a pic of a much better one somewhere.



Attached File  hawkmoth.JPG   50.63KB   2 downloads

"Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed." - Mahatma Gandhi

 

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson