Looks like a rosei type peru to me?

[zahsone]

What do people think, it has some mega long spines

[ballzac]

roseii sounds like a pretty good call, though I can't be 100% confident until it's bigger. I've noticed that roseii tend not to look so 'roseioid' when they're small. You might find that, even though it has distinct roseii traits at the moment, that it looks less so as it gets older. Definitely looks to be in the long spined peruvian spectrum though. Did you see the mother plant? Did it look the same?

[zahsone]

Ta mate, i did see the mother plant, i got photos of it but the memory card shit itself, from memory it was quite similar

[PD.]

The plant you showed a pic of in your other thread with the tiny pups looked rosei ish. No way to be sure though, maybe ask the owner where they sourced the original plant(s)? Not much point throwing clone names around though unless you are sure of the origins or its such a highly distinct clone its ID is not really questionable.

[ballzac]

Is Roseii only used to refer to a specific clone? I always thought it was a species (or peruvianus subspecies). The term "Yowie" seems to be used to refer to any pachanoi that looks similar to the yowie clone, so no doubt this will happen with a lot of clones and the terms will shift their meaning.

[sapito]

I think this is a problem with the trend in australia to attach names to any tricho spp. Im not that familiar with rosei having only recently acquired cuts but IMO while it might seem like a good idea at the moment to name clones I think we need to start doing it with much more thought and research.

People are naming everything that seems new or different to them but this does not mean it is new or different in terms of what is available around australia or world wide. We know SFA about the evolution of trichocereus so it seems a big call to start differentiating between cuts when hardly anyone is knowledgeable enough to make that decision.

I have no idea if that cut is rosei-ish but just thought I would chuck my thoughts out there.

Purdy little thing either way

[ballzac]

The fact is, though, that roseii is so distinctive in comparison to other peruvian strains that it deserves its own name as a subspecies. The yowie thing I feel is superfluous because names like "true pedro" have already been used to refer to pachanoi with that distinct form. I generally refer to them as "yowieoid" because it makes it clear what particular form I am referring to without making any claim as to specific clone.

[sapito]

oh, I didnt mean that rosei didnt have distinct qualities. Just the desire for many people to associate their cuts with some other known clone.

Edit** And im not refering to zahone directly either. Simply an observation on online cacti collectors as a whole

Edited January 24, 2012 by sapito

[zahsone]

Yeh i wasnt trying to name it as roseii , thats why the title is 'roseii type peru' - i've got roseii 1 and 2 cuts which i got from sharxx on here and i was just meaning it looks similar- with the roundness of the areoles and the general shape and spination

[PD.]

The fact is, though, that roseii is so distinctive in comparison to other peruvian strains that it deserves its own name as a subspecies. The yowie thing I feel is superfluous because names like "true pedro" have already been used to refer to pachanoi with that distinct form. I generally refer to them as "yowieoid" because it makes it clear what particular form I am referring to without making any claim as to specific clone.

 

Yeh i understand what you are saying zac, though i consider the rosei clone to be the peru from fields as it is a peru, yet by him the old and defunct name of T rosei is still attached to it when it is now, for some time considered peruvianus. Yes it is a distinct clone but for a while a member was selling another peruvi as rosei which turned out to be different. It is similar but overall different and from a different collection entirely than fields. Norma is another peru that is similar and as yet im to grow it to maturity but im told is different again from rosei. The yowie clone is rather distinct and i have not seen a tricho of pachanoi bent with the two needle thin downward pointing spines on mature columns, this yowie clone though, like sausage, super pedro, pc pach and many a different bridgesii seem to have made their way around the country long ago which is no surprise. I have sausage plant from vic, SA and WA and all are the same clone afaic, i have yowie from SA and two locations in vic and all are the same clone, super pedro is everywhere also and it is an easy one to distinguish though many names have been applied to it.

There is no way im gon try and tell someone what to call their plant but if trying to attach an already in use name to a clone of unknown origins i think it best to at least try find out where it was sourced or ask for a collective opinion on ID as like i said, the more obvious clones are easy to tell apart from the crowd. Not havin a go at anyone at all here btw! God knows myself and other breeders have made things more complicated for future tricho collectors by hybridising (or mongrelising if that suits you better) but as long as things are labelled the history of the plant will be easier to find out if so desired.

Many of the plants i have applied a name to i have done for simplicity and memory of where I sourced the plant. For example the yowie clone was originally spotted by a member here who told me about it as i lived close by. I went along and found it to be a different looking tricho to what WE as a community had floating around. There was quiet a bit of material available and so lots of it was sent around, over time others have found mother plants which are obviously the same clone. It is much easier calling it yowie rather than "that plant that yowie told PD about with the double downward pointing spines which looks like a pachanoi of sorts" especially when replying to 20 PMs about the same plant. Most named clones have a story behind them, others are from big collections and are so different many people desire them, incognito named psycho0 as such when he got it for personal reasons and the name stuck out of respect, super pedro was named by the owner of cactus country and has called it that for 20 odd years, snags, cant recall who coined that one but it is self evident lol, eileen, a gift from Eileen to Ed and so on.

So afaic, the naming thing does serve a purpose and help keep track of desirable or unusual/sporty clones but only when ppl stick to what is what whether it be a new one they find and spread around to many ppl, use for breeding or an old fat chunk of eileen they buy from SAB classifieds. When an in use name is just slapped onto any plant someone finds without growing it out or really really looking at it/asking things are gonna get twisted and there will be plants with the same name that are well different and ppl just wont care anymore. Then youll have a garden full of bridgies pach and peru, which will be simple but boring as hell lol "who cares where i got it, its a pachanoi so gtfo". I guess it would make for a nice lot of ID arguements though, everyone loves a nomenclature fight.................. I still wish it got named "the terminator" rather than the sausage plant

The naming thing is only really relevant to us here though and even then a lot of ppl just dont care about it they just want a nice plant. Ok, i have had a bit too much tonite, time to stfu, i prolly contradicted myself in that lot, things are getting messy in this lil brain, nigh nighs.

- i've got roseii 1 and 2 cuts which i got from sharxx on here and i was just meaning it looks similar- with the roundness of the areoles and the general shape and spination

 

Might wanna check with sharxx on the origins of those ones mate ;). He had another peru similar to rosei for awhile, not rosei but an awesome blue number none the less

[ballzac]

I remember the initial thread where sharxx asked people's thoughts on that particular clone, and people said it looked like roseii. A lot of that clone has been passed around the community, and is usually referred to as roseii. As I said, I never thought roseii to be a particular clone, I thought it was the name of a subspecies (maybe if we're gonna name specific clones then lets not put put "i"s on the end ). I think most of what you see called roseii is likely to be that clone. I'm still confused on the roseii 1 & 2 thing

Edited January 24, 2012 by ballzac

[ballzac]

Oh, by the way, I have a pedro (also from sharxx) that is almost identical to yowie. But I'm convinced that it's not genetically identical because it retains unique traits even though it, and my yowie, are grown under the same conditions. One example is variegation. Yowie can display a little from time to time, but this one has quite strong variations in colour, patchy dark spots to be precise. Also, the rib shape seems slightly different. But the spination is identical.

[PD.]

well the rosei clone was called as such due to the fact robert calls that particular peruvi rosei, and he has two, one a short spine and one a long spine, hence rosei one and two, which is again roberts naming of them. From memory rosei was a somewhat accepted name for peruvianus quiet some time ago. I have always called it a peruvi when asked, t peruvianus "rosei" same as i would label T bridgesii "psycho0". I think there is a thread around about the whole rosei thing, the name was kept out of respect for Rob but all agreed it is a peruvi.

Sharxx had two peru clones he considered rosei, well he sent me two. One was a lot different but is an awesome blue peruvi, even moreso than rosei 1. The other is so close to rosei 1 im yet to make a descision for myself and my own labelling, for now they are tagged sharxx ;) They are the ones from the bendigo garden.

Oh, by the way, I have a pedro (also from sharxx) that is almost identical to yowie. But I'm convinced that it's not genetically identical because it retains unique traits even though it, and my yowie, are grown under the same conditions.

Should cross them and see what the outcome is perhaps. I have a lot of yowie in ground and see the thing you mention, that is, dark patches, also a light colour very occasionally which if yellow would be considered variagation, i think it has more to do with the nutrient/moisture uptake than the genetics but you could well be right it is a different clone.