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First steps into A. Phlebophylla

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#1 Quetzalt

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:05 AM

Some of us here have been generously gifted A.Phleb seeds. This thread is a grow log for those who'd like to share their experiments, methods, doubts and questions about germinating and growing these little black diamonds.
There's already quite a bit of info in the forum about previous successful and not so successful attempts, I for a start have found these threads quite helpful (many thanks to the authors :) ):
The Phleb Thread
Raising A.Phlebophylla
Acacia Phlebophylla reasearch (Out of my league but with some good bits and pieces)
______________________________
I'd like to give a shot in the dark...
Phleb loves granite... It is known that granite has variable "low" amounts of Radon emission. Could this be an influencing factor? I don't know anything about plant-mineral interaction, it's just a question that poped in my mind...
______________________________
I'm lucky to live in a zone 9 granite region, not far from some wild areas which are strickingly similar if not the same as Phleb's native habitat. All my walls are made of granite :) cold in winter and hot in summer.
Supposing things go well, I'll be using boilled water for the seedling stage and rain water after transplant. My raising mix will be sterilised 2 parts crushed granite with 1 part multipurpose gardening soil + a little humus. (Please let me know if sterilizing makes any difference)

I couldn't properly figure out what works best but that's what I intend to do:
1st lot.
1. Pour near boilling water over seeds and soak for 12 hours.
2. Plant the seeds in raising mix in a shade area (maybe green house?).

2nd Lot.
1. Nick seeds with a sterilized clipper.
2. Soak seeds in sterile water for 12 hours
3. Plant the seeds in raising mix in a shade area (maybe green house?).

I will also place a couple of seeds from both methods on moisted cotton pads in a sealed plastic bag and plant in raising mix after germination. I'll remove the seed coat If I notice difficulty in germination or just do it a couple of weeks later to ease germination.
Last but not least I'll cross my fingers and twist my mind in patience for the next coming years :)

And thanks for any tip or suggestion from the experieced companions of this plant.

Edited by Quetzalt, 12 January 2012 - 10:39 AM.

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#2 poisonshroom

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:14 AM

I also got some of those seeds - Ill be interested to see how you go =]

Im going to wait till it cools down a bit before I start mine (I live in the tropics, and its about 32*C every day at the moment, and this species is fairly cold loving).

Your techniques should work - Im guessing germination is similar to most other acacias. As far as Iv read, germination isnt the hard part - its getting them to live more than 3 years thats difficult for some reason.

Good luck

Edited by poisonshroom, 07 January 2012 - 11:16 AM.


#3 euphoraecopia

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:52 AM

I'll be following this thread enthusiastically, hopefully contributing a bit as well.

#4 Jonstn

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:21 AM

In my general acacia experience germination worked best with peat pellets, I used a seed raising mix for a few specimen and they either never popped up or came out weird then dying a week or so later. This is just my personal experiences but I figure I'll chuck it in.
I just soaked overnight in boiling water, ones that didn't swell I retreaded then I'd put em in the peat pellets and they'd go under 24 hour fluros, first ones usually sprout in a few days, my strongest one took 2 weeks to sprout then just went ballistic overtook all my other acacias started at the same time.
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#5 Mt.B

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:29 PM

I was fortunate enough to get some while picking up some cacti from P.D. I’ve had a not so successful go at growing some A. obtusifolia that I was gifted from Holy Mountain. So far I’ve got one tiny seedling growing from a 5 seed attempt. This was using the nick outer seed, soak in hot water over night, then sow. I’ll read through the OP links before doing anything.

#6 Sally

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:00 PM

I planted mine a few days ago.
I had a batch of acuminata that didn't respond well to the hot water tek the last time I tried, so I've gone off that method.

This time I scarified the seeds on some sandpaper to the point where the black coating was worn through and I could see a bone coloured patch on the seeds (not completely through the seedcoat to the embryo, just the black skin removed).
I then soaked them in warm water that I put a handful of worm castings in.
After about 30 hours all the seeds had swollen to about twice their original size and were very soft and rubbery to touch. I only had one floater but I planted that anyway.
I watered them in with a mix of fresh worm castings and de chlorinated water. The enzymes & bacteria from worm castings make most seeds germinate better and grow better in the early stages so hopefully it will be the same for Phlebs.

My planting mix was a mix of river sand, rock dust fines, worm castings and coir.

It's only been 4 days so time will tell.
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#7 obtuse

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:39 PM

I suspect one of the important things is the development of nodules on the roots. plants that form good nodules do very well, wheras those that dont form nodules just look crap and eventually die.

of course there is also general genetic effects, i.e weak plants. but i would suggest using soil from around other acacias as a way of encouraging formation of nodules on roots as soon as possible.

in the end i decided to plant mine in a different plant than i originally planned due to long term property concerns, and instead planed them in really sandy sedimentary soil, where other acacis are doing well, and likewise they are so far doing well. since getting them out of pots they have really progressed well.

lookign forward to seeing how well they do.

Cheers, Ob.

#8 euphoraecopia

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

Tonight I scored one seed with a nail file and am soaking in hot water. It's already swelled some 20 mins in. I'm going cautiously, one seed at a time so as not to waste a wonderful gift.

#9 obtuse

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:30 PM

Dont be too cautious. you will lose some, its normal and natural.

and i know you can kill plants from too much love and attention.

these plants grow in pretty extreme and desperate situations so will take some neglect.

cheers.
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#10 danshaman

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 04:56 PM

I'm soaking a bunch right now some i nicked some i removed the whole shell other are in boiling water will be planting them in a coarse sand/seed raising and rock mix

they're starting to look nice and fat now after 5 hours soaking will plant them out soon along with acuminatas chillis and toothless hostillis

cheers
dan
take life as it comes don't watch it as it goes

expectations only lead to dissapointment

#11 cheshire

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:48 PM

hello fellow travellors,
um...so any news/ pics yet?would love to see some forward progression in this topic.
anyways.................
:wub:

#12 danshaman

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:32 AM

no pics yet

I gave half my seed to a friend of mine for better chances of getting mature plants :)

I'm pretty sure i have 1 up though i forgot to use permanent marker on my labels but am certain its a phleb i only planted acuminatas and phlebs

got so many chillis i have no idead what they are....

when i can get pics onto my comp again ill load em up

I did a bunch of different techniques im pretty sure the one i removed all the seed coat from and soak in fish tank water sprouted... I only did that with 1 seed

hopefully will see some more updates soon!

cheers
dan
take life as it comes don't watch it as it goes

expectations only lead to dissapointment

#13 Quetzalt

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:25 PM

For me, nothing yet 3 weeks after treatment ... I might take a few coats out to see if it helps. For comparison sake, I planted 6 seeds of A. Maidinii at the same time and 3 germinated promptly.

#14 Sally

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:50 PM

I've had no luck with mine.
It's been almost a month and they have never dried out so I don't know what happened.
:unsure:

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#15 Darklight

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:28 PM

I've previously had to remove the seed coat from Phleb seeds to get them to germinate, I used a scalpel blade.

They were sown in TC media and left for a week til they got water fat, the coats were easier to remove then. Maybe someone could let them sit on damp filter paper a week or so then remove part or most of the coats, plant into pasteurised coarse sharp sand and let us know how it goes

I say part or most of, because under non-sterile conditions the seed coat does provide chemical protection from disease and dessication

Pasteurised coarse sharp sand happens when you heat your mix to about 70C for an hour. It's better than sterile for some things cos it kills the bad bugs but not the good bugs. Sterile propagation mix can sometimes be quickly colonised by bad bugs which will outgrow the good ones for a bit

If anyone tries this, take pics and let us know how it goes. Ten- twenty seeds is more than sufficient data for the purposes of this. If you'd like more rigour with the experiment, hot water soak or nick some seeds as you normally would, plant into an indentical unpasteurised mix and compare results. Label this batch as control, and keep separate from the experimental batch

Edited by Darklight, 05 February 2012 - 05:38 PM.

All the theories in the world won't help if you don't run an experiment. Just do it. And take good notes

#16 Darklight

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:36 PM

Other things I've heard about phlebs is they like a bit of shade, rather than prefering full sun

And apparently they don't like being moved. Expect losses if you try. They can survive a surprising amount of time in small pots

One of the biggest probs with phleb data I've found is ppl misidentifying the seed at distribution, and handing out seed which is often A. alpina

In my case, using tissue culture, the plants retain juvenile leaf form while replicating. So we didn't find out that the germplasm we were using wasn't phlebophylla until it was deflasked and had grown adult leaves

Back in the real world, misidintification of seed at distribution has meant that a few people were convinced they had successfully grown phlebophylla, posted their teks, and the data kinda muddied up the water

Please note that one of the defining features of phlebophylla leaves is it's distinct parallel venation. I'll attach some pics in a minute once I get the upload thing right :)
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#17 LokStok

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:41 PM

I've had no luck with mine.
It's been almost a month and they have never dried out so I don't know what happened.
:unsure:

its been my experience generally with acacias that an overnight soak (12-15hrs) after any dormancy breaking
treatment is about right. I reckon 30 hrs is way too much & detrimental.

Edited by LokStok, 05 February 2012 - 05:43 PM.


#18 Darklight

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:46 PM

Having said all that about ID problems, I do have some plants I grew from seed, they're about 8" tall now.

Seed received from a reliable and kind SAB member, good germination rates, healthy under 50% sun in coarse sand

Attached are pics of leaf detail in dry older and fresh young leaves which show the main leaf veins running parallel. If your phlebs don't have this, they aren't phlebs


Can someone please have a look at them and confirm they are A. phlebophylla? I believe they both are, but will edit for accuracy if they're not

It would be good if someone could post similar pics of Acacia alpina leaves as a comparison

Apologies for blurry images, my lab camera is pretty old



young fresh phleb  detail 5

young fresh phleb  detail 4

young fresh phleb  detail 3

young fresh phleb  detail 2

young fresh phleb  detail 1

young fresh phleb2

young fresh phleb1

Phleb leaf Dry 2

Phleb leaf Dry

IMG 2064

Dry detail 6

Dry detail1

Edited by Darklight, 05 February 2012 - 06:07 PM.

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#19 Sally

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:25 PM

Sorry I can't help Darklight, there are a few botanists here that might have an opinion more reliable than mine...... I won't mention any names.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone had much success with this batch of seeds ?
PD did the hard yards, I just wondered how it all panned out.

Edited by SallyD, 14 March 2012 - 08:26 PM.

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#20 Amazonian

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:35 AM

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone had much success with this batch of seeds ?
PD did the hard yards, I just wondered how it all panned out.


I am still watching the soils surface,,,,,, in hope,,,,,, waiting for any seedlings to erupt .

:)
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#21 Quetzalt

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:12 AM

Well, end of the line for me... :(
I only had 2 germinations from coco pellets, one died trying to surface and the other trying to shed the seed coat. I had removed the seed coat from another 2 without success. The remaining ones litterally disapeared/ rotted... I dugged but couldn´t find anything. I probably had too much humidity during the whole process. If I'm lucky enough to have another go at them some day, I'll defenetly go for the remove seed coat option.
Does any one know if sand would be better then vermiculite? (I'm asking because vermiculite seems good for air circulation...)

#22 mud

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

I'm having dreams about this one..
little green seeds germinating effortlessly in agar dishes.

Removed the seed coat, dusted in the right hormones etc..
straight on a closed agar plate..

I've seen it become a dime a dozen tek..with any man and his dog bein able
to start a plheb.

#23 Mt.B

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:14 PM

I started a bunch off today. Did the nick, hot water soak then outer shell removal to the seeds and they are now in Yates seed growing mix.
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#24 space cadet swami

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:39 PM

I started a bunch off today. Did the nick, hot water soak then outer shell removal to the seeds and they are now in Yates seed growing mix.


Thank you very much :wink: ...I've been having terrible luck striking A. obtusifolia's. I've tried re-boiling a couple of times...all I had to do was nick them. :BANGHEAD2:

Your timing was perfect...
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#25 The Ban Man

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:50 PM

Any updates folks :)

I'm signing nothing!






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