Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Roadside Drug Swabs

drug testing

  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#1 Give It Away

Give It Away

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:East of Melb
  • Interests:Very interesting
  • Climate or location:Temporate

Posted 31 December 2011 - 09:30 AM

SWIM has a theory about the first contact roadside drug tests done by the police in Australia. Having never experienced one (and not ever wanting too) I know very little about them. Anyway, they have never heard of anybody who has tested positive to MJ from the mouth swab. Neither have I actually and neither has anybody I have talked to about it. Amphs yes. MJ no.
After the swab I believe they take a blood test which shows MJ (and anything else they test for) but until then - no MJ.
Has anybody here experienced this 1st hand? Or know of someone who has?
  • niggles likes this
  • Educate, legislate, regulate

#2 El presidente Hillbillios

El presidente Hillbillios

    Reigning SAB arm wrestling champion

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,926 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hillbilly Hill Sydney
  • Interests:saving the world with my superhuman powers
  • Climate or location:Hillbilly Hill Sydney

Posted 31 December 2011 - 09:34 AM

Yeah my mate got swabbed on the side of the road and tested positive for cannabis. Lost his licence

Ravers do it for hours, Doofers do it for days!

á

á

Hit me up for wicked sick tie dye, my awesome wife is awesome at it and can do pretty much anything. Even surfboards!


#3 Amazonian

Amazonian

    ...

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,986 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Nature lover
  • Climate or location:Temperate, Melbourne

Posted 31 December 2011 - 10:57 AM

What about if you munged on a hot chilli or something just as you were being pulled over ? Maybe that would mask the MJ ?
                                   Don't be deceived by my plain exterior, on the inside, I am a Spiritual Warrior
                                  ___________________________________________________________________
                                                          
                                                  
                                                                  corroboree.jpg
 
                                                          
 
                                                                    
 

#4 Sally

Sally

    Gone

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,046 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hunter region
  • Climate or location:Temperate

Posted 31 December 2011 - 11:07 AM

I've watched (or sort of watched) a show on TV where they pull people over for mouth swabs and breath tests.

From what I've seen the mouth swab seems to give a lot of false positives which is verified when they drag the victim into the bus for a more reliable test.
I've seen instances on that show where the roadside test has given a positive result for amphetamines and THC and the follow up test has proven negative, but the second test has revealed another substance in their blood.
The people who have been charged have been pissed off because of the way it's all conducted.If the first (faulty) test didn't give a false positive then the pigs wouldn't have had reason to ream their arse in the first place.

It could be argued that the original test is faulty and the pigs are happy to use it because it gives them a reason to bend you over and give it to you up the arse. While they are in there they might be lucky enough to find something else by a fluke, something that they never would have had just cause to go looking for ie no reasonable suspicion. I'd like to see how it would go if challenged in court if their suspicion is based on a faulty test ie is their suspicion still reasonable ?
I can see many excuses why the test could give so many false positives, but to me it just seems like a convenient way for them poke around in your most personal asset (your body & blood) and go through your car as well.
  • whitewind, Cimi and Give It Away like this

Join the Army

Visit distant exotic lands

Meet exciting new people

And kill them


#5 Give It Away

Give It Away

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:East of Melb
  • Interests:Very interesting
  • Climate or location:Temporate

Posted 31 December 2011 - 11:42 AM

Yeah my mate got swabbed on the side of the road and tested positive for cannabis. Lost his licence


Thanks EPH :wave-finger:
  • Educate, legislate, regulate

#6 Give It Away

Give It Away

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:East of Melb
  • Interests:Very interesting
  • Climate or location:Temporate

Posted 31 December 2011 - 11:44 AM

What about if you munged on a hot chilli or something just as you were being pulled over ? Maybe that would mask the MJ ?


I've also had several people tell me about certain 'products' or ways of diffusing the swab. Any takers?
  • Educate, legislate, regulate

#7 etherealdrifter

etherealdrifter

    Shaman's Apprentice

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,990 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:happy

Posted 31 December 2011 - 11:53 AM

Yeah my mate got swabbed on the side of the road and tested positive for cannabis. Lost his licence

yep, ditto hilbilli. a foaf(old timer) had been out to visit the 'man'. while there, he sparked up a bunger. 20 mins down the road tested + to dakka.............lost his license. the only good thing that came out of it was that they warned him only for the small amount he had in his possession.
edit-they unburdened him of the choof :(

Edited by etherealdrifter, 31 December 2011 - 11:54 AM.

  • Yeti101 likes this

#8 niggles

niggles

    Plant Boy

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,241 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:southern Victoria

Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:10 PM

Ive heard people claim that they have passed the test by swishing coffee, in their mouths, also by eating lemon or vinegar.
Whilst I can see the logic in the lemon juice or vinegar claim and I imagine it would work, I wonder if they got off just because the test is so inconsistent..
  • etherealdrifter likes this

#9 Foo

Foo

    Supernaught

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,034 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:dystopia
  • Interests:Cherry Cola.
  • Climate or location:Zone 5, Csa, USDA 10

Posted 31 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

I know someone who swears that eating a hole cig will pass you. No chance that works.

Yes you can test poss to MJ even a few days later!

#10 Moses

Moses

    ĂGLĂCA

  • Members2
  • PipPipPip
  • 782 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:growing anything,martial arts,the unknown
  • Climate or location:Temperate/Coastal S.A.

Posted 31 December 2011 - 01:41 PM

I'd like to see how it would go if challenged in court if their suspicion is based on a faulty test ie is their suspicion still reasonable ?
.


as they do/will not acknowledge that their tests are faulty there is no reason for them to not question the validity of the test so their suspicions are justified

they can justify even the slightest suspicion because they are above reproach

victim- why did you stop me officer
aggressor- because you were driving out of a known druggie haunt
victim- but that is also the main track to the local fishing haunt can you not see the fishing rods hanging out my car??
aggressor- yeah but you look like the type that would be up to no good.

subsequent search of car finds small bag with last little bud in it........voila suspicions justified, just another druggie, the two dozen fish in the esky were obviously just a front so i could go have a cone :ana:
  • jwerta, Mr. Bowser, jimimij and 3 others like this
A coward has as much claim to pacifism as a eunuch has to celibacy

#11 waterboy

waterboy

    It Is What It Is

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,321 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arse end of Oz
  • Interests:many
  • Climate or location:cool temperate

Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:42 AM

I have heard of some rumours of munging on a jar stash of pickled onions to beat the test for MJ.

Have heard one story that is convincing, probably goes along the lines of consuming something that is acidic can affect the detection reaction. Like lemon/vinegar....

Cheers
WB
  • Cimi likes this

"We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character." - Albert Einstein

 

"An alkaloid never occurs alone....." .      "You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".


#12 PD.

PD.

    5,7,9

  • Trusted Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,037 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:NE Vic.

Posted 01 January 2012 - 11:17 AM

I know someone who swears that eating a hole cig will pass you. No chance that works.


A good mate got swabbed after leaving a house where he had just smoked cannabis, he tested + with the swab and was taken to the station. He said he chewed a heap of baccy on the way and the swab at the station was -. He wasnt blood tested, just re-swabbed but he kept his license.
I do agree though that it seems far fetched and is probably more likely a result of an inconsistent test rather than chewing a bit of baccy. If my license were at risk i would give it a crack though, I very rarely see pot these days let alone smoke it so got nada to be concerned about.
Another example of inconsistent testing was when another friend tested + for cannanbis, then back at the station they swabbed him again and got a - result so they tried AGAIN and they got a + for meth........ they had searched his car and found used/empty baggies so i guess they HAD to get him for something, can just see it happening. "Just keep swapping him till we get a hit cuntstable, one of these things is bound to be faulty" Ha, wouldnt surprise me at all if the tests are all marked and the filth know what the result of each test is going to be, "Grab one of the meth swabs sarge, looks like we got a speed freak coming up the road here"
  • pete34, Foo, chnt and 1 other like this

#13 Distracted

Distracted

    Boring

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:SA

Posted 01 January 2012 - 12:14 PM

I've personally known two people that have literally had a cone then drove round the corner and been pulled over and tested. Both tested positive to amphs which they denied so the cop let them go. Two different people from two different social groups pulled over months apart from each other.

I know this is a story about my friends, so for anecdotal evidence it's pretty shit so just take it how you want to.


edit: some more information just to cloud things up. I've been told that anyone who has taken a positive reading to court has had it thrown out.

Edited by Distracted, 01 January 2012 - 12:17 PM.

  • vual and Cimi like this

To know is to be cursed with knowing.


#14 Kee

Kee

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Philosophy, Nature, Ethnobotany, Finance, Foods
  • Climate or location:Brisbane

Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

Do the mouth swaps identify if you're driving UNDER the influence or you've USED the substance recently ~ week? Cause really, I don't smoke and drive for a reason...

#15 Sally

Sally

    Gone

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,046 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hunter region
  • Climate or location:Temperate

Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:07 PM

Do the mouth swaps identify if you're driving UNDER the influence or you've USED the substance recently ~ week? Cause really, I don't smoke and drive for a reason...

The tests just look for a detectable level in your bloodstream, it doesn't matter if you had the substance a week ago and are completely sober.
It's a bit like getting done for DUI for a beer you had last week.
  • Distracted and Cimi like this

Join the Army

Visit distant exotic lands

Meet exciting new people

And kill them


#16 Sonny Jim

Sonny Jim

    Senior Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Climate or location:South Coast. NSW

Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:40 AM

^^^yes this is potentially such a huge concern for many people.

but I think if it goes to court it is run past a clinical toxicologist who will try to determine the level in your blood and try to work out if it was likely that you were under the influence at the the time of testing.

That is what happened to me. I got pulled over and taken in a paddy wagon to the local hospital to have a blood test. Several months later the toxicologist report said that there was cannabis in my system but not enough to indicate that I was under the influence at the time of being tested. I hadn't smoked at all for ~ 3 weeks leading up to the police drug driving test but I am typically a daily smoker, so I am very concerned that the amount in my system in the morning from the previous night could get me in a lot of trouble one day.

There must be some way to fool the mouth swabs, I'd love to experiment with a box of them.

Edited by Sonny Jim, 02 January 2012 - 12:42 AM.


#17 Ambient

Ambient

    Exotic Gardener

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:AU
  • Climate or location:Mediterranean

Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:49 PM

Thats an interesting thought, getting you're own test kits & figuring out what will throw them. I did a quick google search but could only find urine test kits for sale.

One of my mates got pulled over & swabbed, he was still blazed & pretty paranoid due to the circumstances, but passed the test & didn't get done for anything. The friend tested is pretty skinny to say the least & only smokes every now & then. This may have had something to do with the results or the tests are just inaccurate. One thing's for sure though, he was super relieved when they let him go, as he was definitely high at the time.

gallery_9498_458_4696.jpg


#18 Neoshaman

Neoshaman

    demigod

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,090 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Coast
  • Interests:mycology, ethnobotany, sprituality , the human mind , comparative relgion , music , organic chemistry
  • Climate or location:Central Coast NSW

Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:56 AM

I think the whole problem with these tests is that they work on the premise that if the drug is in your system it effects your driving the fact that they are both lkpnown to record false positives and the secondary test is set at a level where the persons driving ability may be actually effected makes me think that they are more a drug war related ploy as oppose to keep road users safe if safety was the priority there would be no need for detection levels to be set so low
  • Cimi likes this
"How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."

#19 Give It Away

Give It Away

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:East of Melb
  • Interests:Very interesting
  • Climate or location:Temporate

Posted 13 January 2012 - 07:24 PM

My friend who is a nurse has heard that Biotane mouthwash (used for dry mouth caused by medication) works against the swabs.
  • Hendry likes this
  • Educate, legislate, regulate

#20 faustus

faustus

    perennially chat

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,412 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:sydney

Posted 13 January 2012 - 08:31 PM

The presence of tetrahydrocannabinol
in saliva, for example, appears to be due primar-
ily to contamination of the oral cavity following
smoking of marijuana cigarettes. Being highly
protein bound, cannabinoids do not pass readily
from blood into saliva and cannabis itself inhibits
salivary excretion (Karlsson & Strom, 1988).



so maybe washing thoroughly with an ethanol-based mouthwash? either that, or stick to shelving.
  • ~shameless~, El presidente Hillbillios, Cimi and 2 others like this
I've studied now Philosophy
And Jurisprudence, Medicine,
And even, alas! Theology,
From end to end, with labour keen;
And here, poor fool! with all my lore
I stand, no wiser than before.


~ Faustus

#21 Hendry

Hendry

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Living in a van down by the river!
  • Interests:Plants and Cacti,
  • Climate or location:( Sydney)

Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:30 PM

feel for the folks who get cased up when they are not even under the influence. Is rinsing with hydrogen peroxide within a 20 min window of providing a sample just a rumor? Short of purchasing the same model of test used by the spanish inquisition and testing the theory one will never know. Does anyone know the type/name/model of test they use?

Call me crazy but amphetamines should be compulsory for anyone operating an 18 wheeler....
  • ThunderIdeal, Cimi and chnt like this

#22 Jonstn

Jonstn

    Shaman's Apprentice

  • Members2
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,294 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:Dry

Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:07 PM

I've heard a few stories about people coming back with negative results, I think the tests are different in each state though

I heard back when the test were first brought out they were coming up with a shit tonne of false positives and they had to change something in the test? Any clarity on this would be awesome

Edited by Jonstn, 14 January 2012 - 08:24 AM.


#23 Hendry

Hendry

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Living in a van down by the river!
  • Interests:Plants and Cacti,
  • Climate or location:( Sydney)

Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:27 PM

My friend who is a nurse has heard that Biotane mouthwash (used for dry mouth caused by medication) works against the swabs.


Theres an idea! My prescription dexedrine dries out my mouth anyway. While I do not utilize any prohibited chemicals. The reality of these innaccurate tests leaves the innocent man by the roadside, illegally detained, publicly humiliated? while these cuntbags treat him like jack the ripper until proven otherwise. Only the paranoid survive.....

I found the following snippet from here http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1579288/

"Oral fluid production is stimulated by use of agents such as citric acid candy, chewing gum or other agents. This will inevitably change the pH and concentration of drug in the oral fluid. This has been shown to lower concentrations of codeine by about two- to six-fold,12,13 two- to four-fold for methamphetamine,14 and about five-fold for cocaine.15 It is likely that similar changes will occur for other drugs."


"A number of drugs are known to affect the secretion of oral fluid.11 Most commonly these are amphetamines, including the designer forms such as ecstasy (MDMA), and cannabis. Other drugs include the sedating antihistamines, antipsychotic drugs, anticholinergic drugs and a number of antidepressants. There are less commonly used drugs that increase flow and these include clonidine, pilocarpine and beta-2 stimulants (salbutamol, terbutaline etc).
Consequently, there is significant intra- and inter-subject variation in relation to drug concentrations depending on the technique used, the physiology of the person and the influence of factors affecting drug concentration in oral fluid.


Since the collection of oral fluid specimen can be viewed by a second person without infringing privacy it does not suffer from the same issues regarding possible adulteration or substitution as for urine.13 While this can be a distinct advantage, it must be recognised that methods can be employed to potentially affect the collection of oral fluid or the concentration of drugs in oral fluid. The prior administration of drugs and a range of physiological factors covered earlier can affect drug concentration. Foodstuffs, various beverages and various toothpastes did not affect the concentration of drugs of abuse using the Oratect® device 30 min after exposure.16 The use of commercial adulterants or other products capable of acting as adulterants, such as Clear Choice®, Fizzy FlushTM, Spit and Clean®/™ mouth wash and Cool Mint Listerine® also had no substantial effect after 30 min. In an early study using a small number of volunteers, the consumption of beer immediately smoking a marijuana joint appeared to lower concentrations of THC in oral fluid at 1 h post dose.17 It is likely that a short rinsing effect is seen with these agents and others, including water, for a short period after use. Since the oral fluid in the mouth is rapidly turned over, a wait of several minutes should allow re-equilibration of drug in the surrounding tissues.The rinsing effect with drugs is in some way similar to the contamination of breath alcohol by recently consumed alcohol in that a wait of 15–20 min allows any mouth alcohol to be removed by normal physiological processes.18 However, more research is needed to investigate this phenomenon in oral fluid for the various collection techniques"
  • PhoenixSon, vual, Ambient and 1 other like this

#24 Polanish

Polanish

    Psychonaut

  • Members2
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Climate or location:Adelaide

Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:39 PM

I know someone who swears that eating a hole cig will pass you.


I'd rather gargle some vinegar and bite a chilli.

#25 SunChaser

SunChaser

    Illuminated

  • Members2
  • PipPipPip
  • 952 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Goulburn Valley
  • Climate or location:Semi-arid

Posted 17 January 2012 - 03:27 AM

I got tested a few months ago and came back completely negative, about 20 minutes after leaving the house. Had a big sip of water before I left, but that was it.áI personally think the test just occasionally gives false positives for cannabis and then the person usually probably admits guilt. I did read a news story a few years ago saying how a lot of people admit guilt before the are even actually tested.

Also, does anyone remember the first bloke to test positive to cannabis in Australia? He got his face flashed all over the news, then came back with a negative blood test.

Peace
  • prioritise likes this

"I am no longer scared now, I'm free as a bird"
 

-Marshall Mathers

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=ybDApvQ2RLY