Invasive acacias

[Quetzalt]

Acacias here in the south of Europe are considered higly invasive species and there are some environmental efforts to remove them. I've seen specially 3 species arround - Melanoxylum, Dealbata and Longifolia.

I have no experience with acacias but I've been very curious as to whether there is any ritualistic utility to these species?

Do most acacias manifest similar reproductive patterns and have this invasive potentiallity?

On various ocasions I almost acquired Acuminata, Confusa or Obtusifolia but have given up due to afterthoughts cocerning invasive issues...

[ThunderIdeal]

i dunno about most, it's a huge genus and it all depends on the environment, they are pioneer plants though, they tend to grow in areas where other trees and large shrubs don't or can't grow. so perhaps in a heavily wooded area their invasive threat is greatly reduced.

a few members have had the attitude that "yay weeds, spread em around, spread the plant love it's natural anyway" or something along those lines. i hold the opposite view, certainly i think if you grow acacia species abroad you should be doing your best to contain them.

[planthelper]

i dunno about most, it's a huge genus and it all depends on the environment, they are pioneer plants though, they tend to grow in areas where other trees and large shrubs don't or can't grow. so perhaps in a heavily wooded area their invasive threat is greatly reduced.

 

you are spot on, describing the distribution!

obtusifolia, for example will grow in newly disturbed (and burned) soil, in mass, whilst older specimens are found often much further apart, but aswell in "stands" or say colonies.

there are some acacias which produce aswell, the most precious cabinet timbers!

most of us live in the home country of acacias, but they are often, not easy to cultivate,

no danger of invasivness wher i live, for most of them...

they are highly specialised, in a sence that they colonise different climatic conditions and aspects.

Edited December 11, 2011 by planthelper

[phyllode]

Weeds are the guardians of the soil, trying to condition where humans are negligent. I think you would have to be very negligent to turn most acacias into weeds in most of Europe.

[poisonshroom]

Thats not true at all - weeds that are native to the area could be considered guardians of the soil, but introduced pests can cause some huge problems for people and the local flora and fauna - for example chonky apple and lantana in australia, which can cover hectares of land and form impassable thickets, which outcompete native species and make it difficult for native animals like kangaroos etc to move to their preferred grazing areas. As for acacia's Im not too sure about in Europe, but in norhtern australia there are non native acacia's which are becoming quite significant weeds (eg. A. nilotica). And almost all acacia's produce thousands of seeds in one season, which remain dormant for years until the soil is disturbed, so most cold hardy species could easily become a problem. Eucalyptus species are not considered weedy here in their native environment, but in some places in america they are taking over forests, so really the message is any non-native should be carefully controlled because the habitat you introduce it into may turn out to be more suitable than you think (even more suitable than its native habitat), and a novelty in your country could easily become an invasive weed without proper care and attention

If they are taken care of and kept in the open where any seedlings that pop up around the plant can be pulled out then it shouldnt cause any problem.

[phyllode]

I think all weeds are guardians of the soil. If they are 'invasive; it's usually because they were deliberately planted in raped and disturbed conditions. It's one Earth. Humans are the 'invasive'.

[poisonshroom]

Thats true I guess, but isnt this thread about planting in 'raped and disturbed conditions' (ie someone's back yard)? And a lot of 'wilderness' area is impacted by introduced weeds even if the area itself is pretty much untouched by humans. All it takes is for a couple of plants to escape cultivation and they can quickly take over areas which are undisturbed (or not disturbed deliberately like in bush fires, cyclones, floods etc). For example - Salvinia, the stuff that clogs thousands of waterways in the north is thought to be one individual plant. It reproduces vegetatively so efficiently and quickly that often trying to remove it actually makes the problem worse

Edited December 12, 2011 by poisonshroom

[indigo264nm]

A. longifolia bark, although extremely variable and usually in low concentrations, has been known to yield extractable amounts of what I gather you're interested in by the species you've considered growing.

You would need to use mature species to have any hope at all but by memory somebody on here (probably Folias) yielded 0.1-0.2% before from longifolia bark so it is possible. It is considered not be a worthwhile choice by most people though.

[Quetzalt]

Thank you all for your feedback. Yes, it's hard to beleive how one tree would invade a whole ecosystem but it can happen easily... Thanks for the info on the longifolia, seems comparable to madeinii that way... Being interested in the entheogenical qualities of this genus as well as having an ecological concern regarding its propagation, I would like to know what would be the ideal one. I know that I would probally only live to see it grow to adulthood and that it would basically become some kind of rellic. I'd love to take care of an A. phlebophylla in that sense, but this one seems to be out of reach. Any other suggestion? Thanks

[indigo264nm]

I've only ever been to Italy out of the South Europe countries so I'm going by a very rough guess at what your climate might be like, but I don't think it would be too dangerous planting an A. obtusifolia as long as it's in a yard and no properties nearby back onto a forest or something just be safe.

Germination in the wild seems to be fairly reliant on bush fires - I've been in mountainous areas that get bush fires once or twice a decade and noticed that they tend to all be quite young in comparison to the big ones I've seen in other areas.

They tend to live in temperate regions and somewhat inland so they don't rely on lots of rainfall, and they don't seem to like being grown in coastal areas as much for that reason from my experience... not that they won't grow, but they won't grow as quick as the Acacia's native to the area.

They can stand heat waves but also grow in areas that get below a little bit below zero degrees during winter nights.

I would also be impressed if any seeds dropped by the tree would ever germinate in suburban areas with well maintained turf so I think you should probably be safe growing a tree without worrying about introducing a pest.

I would think you also probably be fine to grow A. acuminata as well but I don't have much experience with them on my side of the continent and haven't planted any that have seeded yet. I know they are very hardy trees, fast growing trees.

No experience at all with A. confusa so have no idea on that one.

Edited December 15, 2011 by -=IndigoSunrise=-

[Evil Genius]

One of the most invasive Trees in Europe is Robinia Pseudoacacia. Its consider an acacia though its actually not one it a botanical sense. But it has a very resinous bark so everything is possible there. Personally, i hate them and i would rather prefer not having them here. I am pretty sure they arent even german but they are pretty much everywhere. Very Very heavy seeders. In Autum, one large tree can carry ten- or hundred thousands of seed. If not even more, its hard to measure. No matter what, they are a very bad weed in my area. bye Eg

[ferret]

I've heard that A. floribunda is planted around portugal, maybe something to look out for..

[amanito]

Few years back I went to do volunteer work in Iceland where we cutting some invasive plant which was once imported to Iceland. It's really horrible, Iceland has only like a few hundred kinds of plants and this plant is dominating and taking all the space. You see it spreading rapidly across the country. I don't know the name, it's a pretty purple flower and when you drive you just see fields and fields of this plant.

Edited December 15, 2011 by amanito

[indigo264nm]

^^ Australia has an absolute menace of a 'pretty purple flower' weed as well.

I dunno what it's like in other countries but Australia has tonnes of weeds that have spread through into the bush. Bush regen work is a bitch. Most of them are UK plants as well that people thought would be a great idea to bring over when they migrated i.e. Privot, Lantana and Camphor Laurel to name a few.

But the Ipomea sp. are the fuckn worst to get rid of because you have to be so careful not to cause more plants to propagate from the process. Because it's a vine, you need to cut the vine from the root source (which you then poison) but have to make sure that you leave all the vine hanging on the trees to die because if any little sprigs of creeper reach the soil you can be sure that they will become new plants

[ThunderIdeal]

wow, as an australian it is pretty hard to worry about a small country like iceland dealing with a single weed species!

that photo is brilliant.

[planthelper]

I'd love to take care of an A. phlebophylla in that sense, but this one seems to be out of reach.

 

the few reports we get from overseas about acacia's, seem to indicate that phlebophylla grows realy well in many european regions. the seeds are around, i would say, it's not out of reach for you.

and wouldn't it be funny if a critical endagered plant, would become invasive somewhere else, hehehe.

[amanito]

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[Quetzalt]

planthelper, yes i've been following with great interest some of the very few successfull european attempts at Phlebophylla and what gives me hope with this species, even though I might not have the necessary expertise, is that I live in a great granite region... houses are made with it and out of it

I never came across seeds though, should you know someone who might sort me out a few , please PM me, I would be most gratefull.

"and wouldn't it be funny if a critical endagered plant, would become invasive somewhere else, hehehe"

Evil, Genius, I don't think I can see much of this Robinia Pseudoacacia around... I know how millions of seeds can be scary... Well, at least it doesn't seem to be an ugly tree.

I'm not an Acacia Connaisseur, I can distinguish them but I'm not sure of which is which. I need to do some research. It's forbidden arround here to sell Acacia species at the shops, but they're everywhere in the forests and the few green areas we have.

This one is the most common I've seen around:

[Bush Turkey]

a non psychoactive plant is not gonna get touched much, but a psychoactive plant is gonna be touched by many, thus keeping the numbers down.

[Roopey]

I don't get why some people think that humans shouldn't help shape ecosystems. We already do it, we might as well become aware of it and do it constructively rather than say "You shouldn't introduce potentially invasive blah, blah, blah." Why not think about the fact that you are letting a plant flourish where it otherwise wouldn't, but do it responsibly and respectfully. If it invades and starts beating out other species, well then it is your responsibility, as a conscious being that is able to see what is going on, to save the plants in danger by managing the invasive species and helping spread seeds of those in danger.

The fact of the matter is that humans have been shaping ecosystems for millions of years. Look at Australia and how integral the Aboriginal culture was with the surrounding ecosystems, constantly reshaping and burning down the old to make way for the new. So much so that the ecosystems on this continent greatly suffer from the lack of these practices. When you think about it, though, how many species were lost due to their inability to adapt to these practices? Not just plant species, animal as well. Many. Such is the cycle of life.

When it all comes down to it, humans are a part of the ecosystem too, it's just that most of us happen to be horribly irresponsible and disrespectful towards the other beings on this planet, including each other.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Roopey

[Bush Turkey]

thats a bit harsh greencavefloat. He does have a bit of a point

[poisonshroom]

I agree, he does have a point, but I also dont completely agree with roopey on that either. It is natural for animals (including humans) to change their ecosystems whether its intentional or not, but having said that, humans have already made massive amounts of changes to the environment, and its often not for the best. Many people wouldnt have the means to control a highly invasive species once it starts to take over (eg. cane toads, lantana, salvinia, para grass etc), and it can really throw the diversity out of whack very quickly as is the case with cane toads, which have pushed many native frog species to extinction and are inedible to almost everything.

The Aborigines using fire to shape the environment is just taking advantage of a natural occurrence by doing it in a controlled manner, all the plant species that depend on fire to spread already had that habit (likely before humans even left africa/asia/wherever they actually arose from).

The horrible irresponsibility part is what worries me - I doubt planting a couple of exotic acacias in your back yard is going to cause a problem, but it very well could, and many introduced species naturalize themselves by escaping cultivation (tilapia and carp escaping from aquariums and ponds is another good example of this).

[ThunderIdeal]

I don't get why some people think that humans shouldn't help shape ecosystems. We already do it, we might as well become aware of it and do it constructively rather than say "You shouldn't introduce potentially invasive blah, blah, blah." Why not think about the fact that you are letting a plant flourish where it otherwise wouldn't, but do it responsibly and respectfully. If it invades and starts beating out other species, well then it is your responsibility, as a conscious being that is able to see what is going on, to save the plants in danger by managing the invasive species and helping spread seeds of those in danger.

The fact of the matter is that humans have been shaping ecosystems for millions of years. Look at Australia and how integral the Aboriginal culture was with the surrounding ecosystems, constantly reshaping and burning down the old to make way for the new. So much so that the ecosystems on this continent greatly suffer from the lack of these practices. When you think about it, though, how many species were lost due to their inability to adapt to these practices? Not just plant species, animal as well. Many. Such is the cycle of life.

When it all comes down to it, humans are a part of the ecosystem too, it's just that most of us happen to be horribly irresponsible and disrespectful towards the other beings on this planet, including each other.

 

yeah, nah, if we could just manage invasive species then there wouldn't be dozens and dozens of them rampaging across the countryside.

once you introduce a really bad weed it is here to stay even if somebody is willing to spend bulk coin controlling it.

[Evil Genius]

Quezalt, congratulations on not having so many Robinias around where you live. I cant tell you how bad they seed. I made pics of only one tree that was so full of seed that it almost fell over. I have collected some seeds of them because its a good tree for permaculture but i wont send them anywhere where the plant doesnt naturally occur anyway. So if people in countries where they grow want some seed, just let me know and i send you some. Its definately an interesting tree for lab-testing but having them in Australia would be a desaster. bye Eg

Edited December 19, 2011 by Evil Genius

[SunChaser]

 Why not think about the fact that you are letting a plant flourish where it otherwise wouldn't, but do it responsibly and respectfully.  If it invades and starts beating out other species, well then it is your responsibility, as a conscious being that is able to see what is going on, to save the plants in danger by managing the invasive species and helping spread seeds of those in danger.  

 

They constantly have council workers spraying chemicals along the river here trying to get rid of certain invasive weeds. But it doesn't even get rid of most of the weeds and the ones they do get rid of just come straight back not long after. So in reality, I really don't think it's easy or even possible to eradicate a lot of these weeds once they are established.

 

 

fact of the matter is that humans have been shaping ecosystems for millions of years.

 

Well actually, as far as we can tell homo sapiens have only been around for about 120 thousand years. 

Look at Australia and how integral the Aboriginal culture was with the surrounding ecosystems, constantly reshaping and burning down the old to make way for the new. So much so that the ecosystems on this continent greatly suffer from the lack of these practices. When you think about it, though, how many species were lost due to their inability to adapt to these practices? Not just plant species, animal as well. Many. Such is the cycle of life.

 

Australian native flora evolved to take advantage of fire long before humans ever arrived. The aboriginals simply enhanced a natural occurrence for the purpose of there own survival. It is true that they probably did effect some ecosystems in a negative way by drying up some of the less arid environments, causing certain animal and plant species to be come extinct. But they were simply replicating a natural process so the environment quickly adapted and many other plants and animals would have thrived from the aboriginals burning the land.

It's completely different to growing plants in your garden that come from extremely diverse environments and there for possess very aggressive attributes for survival, just because they look pretty.

When it all comes down to it, humans are a part of the ecosystem too, it's just that most of us happen to be horribly irresponsible and disrespectful towards the other beings on this planet, including each other. 

 

Yeah I completely agree, humans are very much part of the ecosystem. However, our non-nomadic way of life we have developed is not part of any ecosystem. In order to be responsible and respectful to 'all' life we share the planet with, we need to live our way of life in a manner that benefits both us and the life around us.

Experience has well and truly shown us that just letting plants grow in ecosystems they don't belong in, without any consideration for the damage it might cause, can have extremely negative effects and is also sometimes impossible to fix.

 Peace