59 replies to this topic

[planthelper]

i thought a thread on this could be usefull.
i hope to expand this thread with more details, in given time.

first all three different viridis in one shot, all the plants are of similar age, but the moon aka la luna was a bit bigger when i recieved those beauties from tort.

 K3094DFC0AE9_1000175 3 viridis strains.JPG   645.69K   209 downloads

Edited by planthelper, 17 April 2013 - 06:52 PM.
grammar

[Teotzlcoatl]

indendification?

[Teotzlcoatl]

"La Luna"???

[planthelper]

close up of the stipules. note the shipibo stipule is partly pinkish in coloration!
 K3094DFC0AE9_1000176la luna1.JPG   671.99K   75 downloads  K3094DFC0AE9_1000177shipibo.JPG   649.06K   94 downloads  K3094DFC0AE9_1000178common viridis.JPG   696.43K   66 downloads

identification, im dyslexic, hehehe....

Edited by planthelper, 25 June 2011 - 10:31 AM.

[planthelper]

close up of the domatia (called jaguar paw scratches, by the natives, the more scratches the better, they reason).

domatia psychotria viridis "la luna" aka moon.
 K3094DFC0AE9_1000179la luna domatia.JPG   643.61K   88 downloads

domatia psychotria viridis "shipibo".
 K3094DFC0AE9_1000181shipibo domatia.JPG   666.37K   95 downloads

domatia psychotria viridis "common"
 K3094DFC0AE9_1000182common viridis domatia.JPG   624.53K   73 downloads

very late edit: removed a seemingly wrongfull term.

Edited by planthelper, 15 August 2011 - 09:12 AM.

[Teotzlcoatl]

How does one obtain this "La Luna" plant?

[Zaka]

Irie ph,
Very cool!
Excellent shots!
I hope you can get some photo's of the flowers & berries too!!!
Respect,
Z

[planthelper]

yep, i will let some flower and fruit, and hopefully, i'll manage to take photos of that.

the flower and fruits, show at times some characteristic traits, like for example, i' sure to remeber that, psychotria carthaginensis fruits are more of a darker red, than the red color of ripe common viridis fruits.

aswell, i think to remeber that maybe psychotria alba can be seperated from psychotria carthaginensis, by the color of the flower. but i say this thinking, that alba and carthaginensis both, very well be synonyms, and this is a view held by some professionals aswell.

[Zaka]

yep, i will let some flower and fruit, and hopefully, i'll manage to take photos of that.

the flower and fruits, show at times some characteristic traits, like for example, i' sure to remeber that, psychotria carthaginensis fruits are more of a darker red, than the red color of ripe common viridis fruits.

aswell, i think to remeber that maybe psychotria alba can be seperated from psychotria carthaginensis, by the color of the flower. but i say this thinking, that alba and carthaginensis both, very well be synonyms, and this is a view held by some professionals aswell.

Irie,
As far as I can tell(?) alba(?) & Cart(?) may indeed be slightly different.
But the viridis are supposed to have flowers with at least some green tinge to them, as well as hanging down (oh what's the word???I forget my orchid terms!!)
Will be interesting to see anyways...
Respect,
Z

[mauve]

Thank you for those beautiful pictures Planthelper !

To my knowledge it is the first picture on internet showing side by side differences between different Psychotria viridis.
Very interesting and beautiful.

I find that what you in Australia call the "common viridis" looks very special with its pointy and long leaves. It would be very interesting to learn about it's origins and how it came in Australia.

[kadakuda]

plant helper. there are some good journal entries. check out flora treatments of various south/central american regions. I have not remember much of what i have been reading, but you could referrence them and check it out.

From journal entries it seems the viridis flowers range from white to greenish, are not always green and can be white. so having green tint flowers can help aim at viridis, white flowers cannot help aim at alba/carth.

[planthelper]

can you give me a search term for those journal entries?

nice info, about the flower color.

btw, if somebody could upload an overal shot of a nexsus, and close up stipules and domatia it would be great (my nexsus is still very small).

[Torsten]

The 'common viridis' we sell is a mix of plants that were originally grown by magickal botanicals [sold via Medicine Garden] and seed grown plants that I raised myself from seed purchased from otj. Over 10 years we could not find any differences between the strains [originally called strain 2 and strain 3] so lumped them together. This is probably due to the seed coming from the same source, as in those days all the growers got their seeds from otj.

Planthelper, where did the 'white princess' name come from? 'La luna' is a clone of a plant that is dear to the Santo Daime in australia and we originally called it 'moon', but then realised there is a conflict with that name so quickly changed it to 'la luna'. The most distinct feature is that it has rounded leaf tips and very short internodal length. A very compact plant.


After years of keeping carthaginensis and alba separate we are about to lump them together. There may be differences in the varieties in other collections overseas, but we certainly can't find any in the plants we have - neither on a potency, quality or morphology basis.

[kadakuda]

plant helper, the journals all have links in the psychotria identification thread, look further down this forum, should be page one.

[planthelper]

Planthelper, where did the 'white princess' name come from? 'La luna' is a clone of a plant that is dear to the Santo Daime in australia and we originally called it 'moon', but then realised there is a conflict with that name so quickly changed it to 'la luna'.

yes, it's not unlikly that this term, i rember incorrectly.
i never remeber names well, but i remeber often the story around a name or term very well, but i think reading up on santo daime, i read this name, but it could aswell have been something like la senora iluminada.

Edited by planthelper, 01 March 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[Paradoxical]

Hi Guys,
Do you know at what age of the plant the leaves start to show the domatia phenotypes?

[planthelper]

Hi Guys,
Do you know at what age of the plant the leaves start to show the domatia phenotypes?

age can't be used as a terminolegy here, in a time sence.

for an average grower it could take you two years from the moment a leafcutting has produced it's first shoot.
but a super grower, in a place which is ideal for a plant, can produce the same development, i more than halve this time.
in other words, "a first time mature plant" could be 1 or 5 years or more old, depending on the enviroment.

unhappy and struggling viridis, don't show many domatia.
but young, and healthy ones do.

late edit:

for me it's conceavable that domatia are a sign that the viridis plant has something to offer (to the insects?), so young or struggling plants don't produce domatias, because it would further reduce there virgor.
whilst happy viridis, are happy to give away....

Edited by planthelper, 13 August 2011 - 09:13 AM.

[Torsten]

psychotria viridis "la luna" aka moon aka white princess.

Spoke to the source of the 'white princess' and it is not the same as 'la luna'. In fact, apparently the daime people don't like the 'white princess' for some reason [didn't elaborate]. Might be best to edit the original post to avoid future confuddlement.

[DarkSpark]

i think to remeber that maybe psychotria alba can be seperated from psychotria carthaginensis, by the color of the flower. but i say this thinking, that alba and carthaginensis both, very well be synonyms, and this is a view held by some professionals aswell.

I agree they are VERY similar. Although in my few plants i have noticed that the Carthaginensis seems to grow much more upright whereas Alba is branching. I don't have enough different ones of each to compare TBH but that is the only difference i have noticed in the two

If you are ever looking to sell a "La Luna" let me know i am very keen to buy one (a shipibo as well)

[Teotzlcoatl]

Perhaps this is something I should do when I go to South America?

[mauve]

Maybe i am jumping a little too quickly on conclusions but it looks that what is called the "common" P.viridis is not common at all !

It could be "Amiruca", a special variety of chacruna used and cultivated in the Napo region.

It would confirm my feelings about this special plant, my favorite form of Psychotria viridis.

http://forums.ayahua...=26148&start=30

I love those elongated and elegant leaves !

[Zaka]

Irie Mauve,
Well interesting mon;
I note that the flowers are white & erect like the alba, but without the waving edge to the leaf.
Not to confuse things more;
but I was looking through some photos of carthagenensis from Costa Rica that had the green flowers & wavey edge leaf!
Respect,
Z

[mauve]

Here is a quote from member "Pinkoyd" on The Nook forum:

"Anyone who managed to get seed from ...of the jungle back in the day has pv from near the town of Tena, Ecuador. I don't know the exact GPS coordinates or anything, but OTJ tracked some plants down through a local Quechua shaman there and offered seed through their catalog for a few years. I know,'cuz I was there while they were doing it, though not at the exact place and moment of their discovery. :cry: We were staying at the Sacha Runa Biological station at the time.(sorry, I might be repeating myself here)

OTJ always guaranteed the ID of their plants and seeds, and in many years of dealing with them, they never steered me wrong. I mean, the guy who ran it was the aficionado's aficionado and I trust his ID skills. (I always thought he should write an autobiography.)"

Tena is the capital of the Napo province...i think we can now stop saying "standard" or "common" viridis !

[planthelper]

update!

a pic of the domatia of a nexus seedling.

 K1CF4E7C71_1000070nex domatia.JPG   558.76K   28 downloads

a pic of the stipules of the same nexus seedling.
sorry for the focus.


 K1CF4E7C71_1000069nex stipules.JPG   641.85K   27 downloads

i was told by the person who gave me this nexus seedling, that, a seedling grown from an original nexus, displays the same characteristics as the original. but i can't veryfie this.

[mauve]

I found an interesting forum, if someone can read portuguese (Quetzal ?). A thread on the differents varieties of chacruna they cultivate in Brazil, fascinating !

http://plantasenteog...tificacao.3452/

They have six different varieties:

-orelha de duende
-caboclinha
-cabocla
-branca pingada
-cafezinho
-olho roxo

Olho roxo has a characteristic similar to the "shipibo strain": it has colored stipules.
It would be interesting to try to indentify wich type is "la luna" sold by SAB.