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Why is there only one human species?


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#26 botanika

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 11:36 PM

How come aliens are always at the end of everything! They didn't leave us very advanced genes if true ;)

I understand 'eve' and the OOA DNA tests but does it prove 'eve's' ancestors were all African or could she have previously moved south from eurasia? In a way north Africa IS part of Eurasia - especially when ice pushed down from the north during ancient ice ages forcing northern hemisphere 'people' south - old remains have been found recently in the Arab peninsula dating 400,000 years and much of the fossils and tools of the northern hemisphere have been ground up by ice aged. There is evidence too suggesting early humans came from the
southern tip of Africa - this also supports colder climates and distance from the equator being contributors to human 'development'. Eve is a line drawn in the sand by scientists supporting their theory but the evidence doesn't yet qualify wholisticly what dynamic the inherited alleles from archaic prototypes would have on us, nor does it usually discuss the older ice ages in relation to movements of early 'humans'. There are a lot of pieces still missing and perhaps other pieces right in front of our nose.

Edited by botanika, 19 August 2011 - 01:21 AM.

'By convention bitter, by convention sweet, but in reality atoms and void'
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'decadence without sickness, health without boredom'
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle

#27 Zen Peddler

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:58 PM

I think its interesting that all human lines except africans have a small sample of Neanderthal DNA. The wikipedia article on Cro-Magnon man seems pretty close to what we were taught at Uni. cheers.

#28 mud

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 01:00 AM

The 'missing link' is all around us.
Someone just got too politically correct
at some stage to realise this.
Even today, we got gorilla, monkey and neanderthal looking peeps.
And everything inbetween.
And im sure, the 'genetic difference' too.
I see a pretty smooth continuum..

#29 mescalito

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 01:43 AM

From my many hours of research reading,listening to audio from well renowned experts in these fields and listening to African Shaman's takes on this very subject.
At least a few people here are making the most sense.

Is it that hard to conceive that 1:Wikipedia is full of shit, and 2: Full disclosure hasn't reached it's peak as far as revealing that genetic experiments that go waaay beyond the times mentioned in this thread could have been conducted by more advanced cross civilisations than ourselves?

I mean there is undoubted proof now that the stones of the Great Pyramid and others were indeed not solid,moved and carved to fit as has been believed and debated for many many years.

Answer,they were most likely cast using simple bio-chemical processes and put together like a cake,thus the exact tight fit(and the hair fibers inside the "stones).
My mate is going to build an outdoor oven using the exact same technique.

Don't believe Whisperpedia,research many areas.
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#30 FancyPants

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:18 PM

I think its interesting that all human lines except africans have a small sample of Neanderthal DNA. The wikipedia article on Cro-Magnon man seems pretty close to what we were taught at Uni. cheers.


Fascinating, hey? I've spent hours multi-tabbing wikipedia learning all I could about this topic. So much I didn't know :D

Thanks for posting, Tripsis.

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Play the tunes that make the ladies swoon.
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#31 botanika

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 11:41 AM

Full disclosure hasn't reached it's peak as far as revealing that genetic experiments that go waaay beyond the times mentioned in this thread could have been conducted by more advanced cross civilisations than ourselves?

400,000 yr old 'modern humans' recently found in Israel. Fossils not easy to find in Europe, parts of Asia and north America because of ice age grinding deposition and geology.  'eve' is suspiciously 'biblical'. There seems to be this pervading idea that hominids always 'just barely clung on' but given the diversity of hominids and their ability even 2MYA to spread across most of the planet I suspect bipedal apes were highly successful with their adaptability and like other animal groups their populations may have been higher in the northern hemispheres. Truly explosive populations only started with agricultural and industrial revolutions.

Genetic data is still in its infancy and it's statistics can be spun. Further analysis of living groups could reveal they have higher % of Neanderthal DNA blurring the line - especially the middle east and caucus region (an area we are told was an interbreeding hotspot and is currently an aggressive region with high sexual dimorphism, monotheist male dominated godhead, history of marriage within group (Ashkenazi) retaining bloodlines as well as other strong Neanderthal traits like beaked nose, hairy, robust features, high mathematical intelligence etc). Look at Einstein. Id like to see scientists truthfully test his brain for Neanderthal gene flow. Obviously a contentious area and one likely to be well already understood and censored in the MSM.

I mean there is undoubted proof now that the stones of the Great Pyramid and others were indeed not solid,moved and carved to fit as has been believed and debated for many many years.

Answer,they were most likely cast using simple bio-chemical processes and put together like a cake,thus the exact tight fit(and the hair fibers inside the "stones).
My mate is going to build an outdoor oven using the exact same technique.

Don't believe Whisperpedia,research many areas.

I saw the French group on YouTube that build a small pyramid in a day using that limestone concrete concept. It's a very plausible and efficient technique - at least for large quantities of 'filler' blocks. Precast technology is still common throughout the region today. However it doesn't explain the quarries, later construction descriptions and artworks, sled artifacts, ramps and transportation roads built. None of that would be needed if they were simply pre-cast.

The hobbits in Flores may be part of a pygmy australapithecus group that occupied African, Indonesian and even Australian equatorial jungles. Not many people ever heard about the Australian pygmies because allegedly the missionaries took them out of the jungle and diluted them into other aboriginal groups.

In Tolkien's study of old Celtic and Gaelic history (especially language) he could well have been describing old europe in lord of the rings. Who the orcs were is anyone's guess but we could look at the historical aggression and disproportionate influence of power in the middle east and it's surrounds for suggestions. Still a lot we don't know.

Edited by botanika, 23 August 2011 - 06:17 PM.

'By convention bitter, by convention sweet, but in reality atoms and void'
Democritus

'decadence without sickness, health without boredom'
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle

#32 devance

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 01:30 PM

http://www.stevequay...rts/charts.html


Maybe not all were small.

And why couldn't giants have conquered the earth.

A bad adversary called lucifer, not God as usually thought.
You can give a man a seedless watermelon [yummy] but can he raise one.

#33 botanika

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 12:48 PM

DNA study deals blow to theory of european origins.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-14630012
'By convention bitter, by convention sweet, but in reality atoms and void'
Democritus

'decadence without sickness, health without boredom'
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle

#34 Zen Peddler

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:40 PM

I remember reading a book on how farming made humans bored and how in some celtic mythology there was always a strong appreciation for their previous hunter behaviours which they missed greatly and how many cultural ills in their times were put down to their farming culture with this sort of belief that their old hunting ways were purer.

Im not sure that many jewish people have characteristics that can be seen as neanderthal. Your making the assumption that neanderthals were hairier than Homo sapiens sapiens which we can never tell from skeletal remains and I dont remember seeing any reconstructed neanderthals with hook or large noses. Cro magnon - which many regards as our direct precedent had square-shaped eye cavities and was very muscular and robust. We dont have those characteristics and I doubt any neanderthal genetics this far removed would result in clear and obvious neanderthal characteristics.

More likely jewish people tend to have characteristics similar to arabic, italian and greek people - more a regional characteristic than purely based on their specific racial group. Race does not fall exclusively on religious lines. There are jews from all walks of life and locational phenotypical collections.

A dude at uni I was smoking weed with was a doctor student in archaeology and he swore that wide hips in women - something I always admired - was a neanderthal trait. Makes no sense as african woman have the widest hips and the least neanderthal genetics according to current thought.

More interesting to me is the facial similarity between Whitley Streiber's grey alien and modern asiatic peoples.

Race is an interesting thing. In two races of dogs we would expect obvious differences - A grey hound would run faster than an english bulldog; a kelpie would be smarter than a maltese. Maybe its because we bred them for these traits - or atleast claim that we to have.

#35 mescalito

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 01:47 AM

As far as Dogs go I think the general thought is still that they all came from the same source originally.
The Wolf.

Some food for thought:



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#36 mescalito

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 02:11 AM

I'm glad you are questioning the reasons/validity about the Pyramid building techniques Botanika....my questions are more about why and less about how :wink: , though they still had to quarry the ingredients and transport those to the site to be mixed even if they did way less than solid rock after the fabrication.

Here's something for ya!

Earlier this year I was looking at Dad's Masonic bible and gear.He had one thing left in his wallet where he would keep his notes, an oddly folded U.S. Bill!

After taking a closer look I decided to search for the word it formed....Theica, then The Ica which yielded something very interesting!



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#37 mescalito

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 02:31 AM

Here's the note:

Attached File  DSC01296.JPG   223.1KB   21 downloads

I like how it says This for All :wink:

Then I got my 20X microscope and had a look around the note, in particular around the Pyramid.....it took quite a steady hand and many attempts to get it in focus but check this out!

Attached File  DSC01298.JPG   114.14KB   26 downloads

This is at the base of the left of the Pyramid.

Do you see what I see?

:P


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#38 Gunter

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 08:30 AM

I've read that the alleles for red hair in our species originate from another that interbred with some of us...


The stories of rakshasas in the old Hindu text seem a lot like a description of another human species that was physically distinct, lived separately from us and would often eat us, but could still interbreed with us. The texts say that a few of them interbred with people and their offspring lived, however they also say that the rakshasas were hunted down and exterminated.

Those same Hindu texts say that our kind is ancient, more ancient than is typically believed.

We are not evolved from chimps, as primates we both have a common ancestor, but we are not gorillas or moneys or chimps that evolved.

#39 ThunderIdeal

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 10:52 AM

mescalito, what do you see? it might be a couple of alien dudes, i can't really make it out.

Race is an interesting thing. In two races of dogs we would expect obvious differences - A grey hound would run faster than an english bulldog; a kelpie would be smarter than a maltese. Maybe its because we bred them for these traits - or atleast claim that we to have.


is it accurate to liken dog breeds to races? as soon as a greyhound breeds with a bulldog the offspring are called mongrels, they have no breed. if human reproduction was directed in order to create traits, do you doubt that lines could be created with the physical traits for faster running, better smelling, the instinct to take prey in their mouth but no instinct to deliver killing blow :P

zen peddler, that book you read about agrarian europeans becoming bored, i saw a doco with the same idea. the sun became the ruler of agrarian people, and stonehenge was built to show that the moon (ruler of earlier people) was superior, during a well timed ceremony when stopping at a marked point on the approach to stonehenge, the sun would shine through a lower part of stonehenge and the moon through a part directly above it. interesting how, whether you believe in anything 'supernatural' or not, it shows that a person with knowledge can set things up to make people think a particular way.



it is interesting that when people call somebody neanderthal they usually refer to a large, ugly, sub-intelligent animal of a man, but what is being suggested is that neanderthal genetics gave humans some kind of a boost towards forming civilisations.
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In Occidental theology, the word transcendent is used to mean outside of the world. In the East, it means outside of thought. To imagine that your definitions of your God have anything to do with that ultimate mystery is a form of sheer idolatry from this standpoint. Your God is good enough for you and mine’s good enough for me. A God, from this point of view, is merely a reflex of one’s ability to conceive of God. Since people have various abilities of this sort, they have various powers of apprehending God.


#40 Zen Peddler

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 06:43 PM

mate my dog breeds thing was just me stoned, rambling and trying to get some people fired up LOL

#41 mescalito

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:42 AM

No shit :wink:


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#42 woof woof woof

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 03:13 AM

recent article in dutch http://www.nu.nl/wet...uunsysteem.html

says we inherited HLA (human luekocyte antigenes) from denisovans / neanderthals that protect us against many diseases nowadays. and that Asians have up to 95% and europeans about 50% of HLA to thank to our ancestors interbreeding. Africans have almost nothing.

The HLA genes we inherited from denisovans / neanderthals had 100.000's of years to adapt to diseases that were present in Europe.

#43 botanika

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 03:38 PM

Im not sure that many jewish people have characteristics that can be seen as neanderthal. Your making the assumption that neanderthals were hairier than Homo sapiens sapiens which we can never tell from skeletal remains and I dont remember seeing any reconstructed neanderthals with hook or large noses. Cro magnon - which many regards as our direct precedent had square-shaped eye cavities and was very muscular and robust. We dont have those characteristics and I doubt any neanderthal genetics this far removed would result in clear and obvious neanderthal characteristics. 

More likely jewish people tend to have characteristics similar to arabic, italian and greek people - more a regional characteristic than purely based on their specific racial group. Race does not fall exclusively on religious lines. There are jews from all walks of life and locational phenotypical collections.


Both Jewish people, particularly ashkenazim but also shepardic jews who eventually ended up in spain, and the original Arab tribes originate from the Caucasus mountains and the jumble of Taurus, Zagros and Elburz mountains, The Balkans, the russian steppes and Hindu Kush ranges to the east. These are a known late lingering refuge of the neanderthal and those mazelike mountain ranges supported an ice age environment for a longer period (which neanderthals were adapted to). Also the italian spine and french Massif Central alps, Pyrenees, Juras mtns. Get out an atlas and look how important that region has been. Take a look at a neanderthal skull to see its large nasal vestige. Of course neither cro-mags or late lingering neanderthals or people with higher % of neanderthal gene flow are going to look exactly like what they did tens of thousands of years ago but traits don't always completely dissapear either. Whether the Neanderthals retreated to those mountains for habitat reasons or because they were pushed back there by new invading cromags is not clear. 

After the Ashkenazi converted to Judaism in AD740, Judaic injunctions against intermarriage with gentiles prevented genetic mixing and dilution more than other barbarian tribes from the region. In this regard the Jewish race does follow religious lines because by default a jewish mother is required to be Jewish. The Arabs have however been much more diluted both physically and culturally as their empire stretched out across vast areas of land and because importantly their culture was far less enthnocentric and more tolerant than the jews - therefore neanderthal genes linger on in core semitic groups (until at least before the transport revolution and mixing in with other wealthy european groups) without nearly as much dilution. It is not merely coincidence that extremely hairy people are found in these Caucasus/middle eastern/central european regions today and no coincidence there is historical hatred between the the jews and arabs given they are from a similar genetic stock - their identities are in direct tribal competition with each other.  

Modern groups also living in cold ice age type environments (like scandinavians, siberians or east asians) have not developed such hairy tendancies and are ultimately more related to atlantic or asiatic cro-mag, 'modern types' or tropical archaic species. The difference is the Neanderthals and other archaic northern hemisphere hominids before them endured the ice age environment for far longer and to greater extremes. It seems evident cromag/'modern humans' were indeed pushed back out of europe southward from the last ice and could only re-enter fully again after the ice age retreated and as technological novelity greatly accelerated. Cro-Magnons may have come to know Neanderthal religion and knowledge initially through secret observation during 10,000 years (or more) of co-existence. When Cro-Magnons arrived in Europe they were likely shocked by the knowledgeable Neanderthals, and wanted the Neanderthal magic for themselves; so, they slowly and carefully spied on Neanderthals, copied them, and in the process stole all of their knowledge and wisdom, including writing systems and rituals.  

With the unexpected discovery of homo habilis bones in the Soviet republic of Georgia reported in 2002 there is sufficient reason to suspect that homo habilis may have been an ancestor of Neanderthal. This is simply because Neanderthals were to occupy that very same Caucasus region as the epicentre of their Ice Age domain. There is also significant evidence of a major environmental catastrophe at the end of the last ice age (comet?) that throws a wildcard into the evoutionary poker hand. 

It's not just genetics, outwardly physical characteristics or anatomical difference in teeth, feet and skulls but behavioural traits. For example over towards the Atlantic coast the Cro-mags were painting cave art depicting mostly plains animals yet the Neanderthals never produced anything similar. They were more focussed on magic, paranormal, religion and astronomy. They worshipped the cave bear, bats, dragon (pterosaurs now extinct) and snakes they shared the caves with. They were more mathematical and more aggressive (as forensics on their bones and early calculational/musical scale artifacts show). Today semitic artwork is highly geometric, highly masculine and drawing animals is even forbidden to a degree. The obsession with 'one god' maybe mathematical. 'Ein' (german yiddish), 1 is the constant, the infinate. 13 also a magical number and moon cycle. Moon worship. Classical music (mostly from central europe) is highly mathematical. The Jewish have never been widely recognised in the visual arts until the modern art movement in the US which finally allowed them to 'join in'. The Jews are highly numerical (they run the banking cartels (trolls?), highly entertainment driven (hollywood warlocks and SFX), extensively involved with mining (their cave background and ancient knowledge of minerals and metals?) and led the development of atomic bombs under escort from Oppenheimer, Truman, Einstein, Eisenhower, cast out german scientists and the financial support of Rothschild  (orcs and goblins). The behaviour of the Semitic groups is clearly expressed in 3000 years of recorded history and in probably in more european artifacts than we'd care to admit. It is clear for anyone to see the differences but much harder for most people to understand why those differences occur or where they originated from. Of course there are other factors too such as changing environments, diet and the spread of technology. They are all interelated. In Stan Gooch’s view 'modern humanity' is a result of the intermixing, both biologically and culturally, of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal elements. In his words,
'A biological supernova occurred when Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal man met. We can, if we will listen, still clearly hear the echoes of that explosion and observe its after-effects… Behind these echoes and tendrils we can also then detect the still fainter traces of Neanderthal civilisation itself, and hear the still fainter echoes of falling cities of dreams.'

The regions stemming out of the Caucasus were and still are highly aggressive areas. Cro-mags, however, were more widespread on the atlantic coasts, mediteranean coasts, north africa, the vast european and Indu plains and river valleys and did not always have such heavily fortified cities until the bronze age. The neanderthal remained in some of the rugged foothills and mountains for much longer. Cro-mags who followed waterways and plains remained purer until later being conquered by northern tribes.

A dude at uni I was smoking weed with was a doctor student in archaeology and he swore that wide hips in women - something I always admired - was a neanderthal trait. Makes no sense as african woman have the widest hips and the least neanderthal genetics according to current thought. 

It makes sense when you consider mechanisms for taming aggression. Neanderthals were stocky, women with wide hips and large breasts (like russian steppe tribe women today above the Caucasus). The neanderthal women were very short in comparison to the men suggesting that it was a male dominated social structure. This is part of an ice age adaption that unfortunately also produces a form of sexual maladaption - in particular a lack of mechanisms for reducing aggression. African women with large breast like butts (mostly a difference in fat deposition), smooth skin, taller relative stature, smaller efficient breasts but happily exposed in the warm weather and men with large dicks is not an ice age adaption. It is a tropical adaption and promotes sexual activity and reduces dimorphism, which in turn reduces aggression. As is the smooth skin of east asians. The most aggressive and sexually dimorphed people in the world are the Caucasians and within that group the Jewish and Arabs are the most aggressive and anti feminist further again.  Much of Jewish writing over the centuries and even Hollywood films today are a neurosis of sexual maladaptions. Read the Talmud. Watch Hollywood teen films with the poor jewish nerd who through 'trickery' gets the cheerleader. Or watch Woody Allen. Watch Howard on 'The Big Bang'. I'm sorry to anyone out there but africans, western europeans, asians, aboriginals, pacific islanders and south americans do not make so much neurotic films/literature/art concerning sex. The psychosexual ambivalence that pervades specifically jewish culture reflects little else and has robbed Islamic literature - even Muslim love and erotic poetry - of any pyschological depth (by western standards). Its often very funny and clever as with Seinfeld and often very defended or unconsented as with circumcision. 

They were called Hittities, Hurrians, Mittani, Hebrews and Hyksos in biblical times. They were called Germans during the 1st century, closely related to the Visigoths, 'Longbeards' (Lombards) and Vandals of the 3rd and 4th centuries. They were feared by Western Europeans as Huns, the 'scourge of God', during the 4th and 5th centuries. They were known as Khazars from the 8th-12th centuries. The same genetic stock became Arab and Turkish Moslems from the 14th century to the 17th and then became known as Ashkenazim Zionists in the 19th and 20th centuries. They are best known as Israelis and Arab fundamentalist 'terrorists' today. All of these barbarian invaders brought conflict and genocide and inevitably also the imposition of increasingly monotheistic and pyschosexually repressive religions upon formerly rather peaceful and pyschosexually healthy people. 

Archaic elements of our past species are still fighting for dominance, revenge and control today. 

One of the things that really sets humans apart from other animals is this defence of identity and territory through time. Other intelligent animals may do this to a degree but not to the extent that humans and in particular, western civilisation does. The idea of Judaic and Islamic monotheism is a distinctly odd departure from the beliefs of most humanity. While it's true other groups conceived of a primary creator god it is only with Judaic and Islamic monotheism - and within more or less diluted derivitives or impositions of them like new testament christianity and Druse faith - that this 'creator god' continue to take a primary place in world affairs, even after 'his' work has been completed. The old christianity - paganism or proto christianity, the worship of 'Yesu' (Jesus) was more of an Atlantic cro-mag belief. It can be seen in Egypt (Isis, Osiris, Horus) 'Mary, Joseph, Jesus'...and the saints (nearly polytheism). It is more primarily based on plains animals (the bull/bison/ox, horse, lion, dog, cat, bird etc), hunter gathering (Diane), agriculture and herdsmen (the shepherd - the virgin mother, the father, the son).  There are direct consistencies between the 'old christian'/pagan beliefs and the Indu or Asian beliefs (the Indu Valley Krishna and Chinese Buddhist fertile valleys).  They are the intermediate band between northern neanderthals and cro-mag groups and express a 'duality' between hybrid cultures.

Quite simply, Neanderthals occupied the mountainous and foothill areas more readily and Cro-mags the waterways/oceans, valleys and fertile plains. Neanderthals may have also been more nocturnal in habit. The Neanderthals left us a lasting legacy, one that remains an undercurrent of modern human psychology, society, and culture. It is important, even critical, to understand this Neanderthal legacy. Part of this can be traced following haplo groups and arachaeology as well as language, political ideology, technology and art/ritual symbology.

The stories of rakshasas in the old Hindu text seem a lot like a description of another human species that was physically distinct, lived separately from us and would often eat us, but could still interbreed with us. The texts say that a few of them interbred with people and their offspring lived, however they also say that the rakshasas were hunted down and exterminated. 

Those same Hindu texts say that our kind is ancient, more ancient than is typically believed.

We are not evolved from chimps, as primates we both have a common ancestor, but we are not gorillas or moneys or chimps that evolved.

Chimpanzee (specifically the bonobo) are our closest known relatives but it is still unclear whether we evolved from them, a common ancestor or had gene flow from another ground ape like the baboon (cynopithecoid) We share like 98% DNA with the chimpanzee but we also share 70% of our DNA with an ocean sponge and 96% with dogs. However there is a problem with our evolution from the chimpanzee/australopithecine in our feet. Something had to bequeath humans our plantigrade feet that ground apes have but astralopithecine did not have. The ground apes have plantigrade feet, like the baboon, also have dog like faces that could explain humans well developed nostrility as well as the ground apes difference in behavior (chimps, especially bonobos are family orientated, baboons are more aggressively tribal). Geographically and biologically it's certainly possible. Cynopithicoids are presently represented by the baboons, drills, mangabeys, gelada in Africa. They are represented by the rhesus and macaque groups in India, Indonesia and south east Asia, with one species in japan. Such a genetic input from ground apes, if true, could help explain many differences between groups genetically, physically and behaviorally.  Even the Rh blood type. Australopithecine would have had to have acquired genes for plantigrade feet from another similarly related ground ape (cynopithicoids) because chimps and australopithecines had previously lost it much further back in evolution when they became tree dwellers. 


The old Hindu cultures (mostly cromag) were focused around the fertile river valleys and coastal locations (where many new ancient civilization remnants are currently being found). The aggressive archaic groups they referred to were likely Neanderthal types up in the Hindu Kush and Pamir mountains - an area of significant and continued aggressive tribal conflict today. Ancient masculine Judaic synagogues and geometricly laden Muslim mosques are in direct contrast to the smiling Buddha, animal worshipping and carved naked ladies of Indu civilizations (even Angkor Wat further east for example).  There are also plenty of 'wildmen' stories that persist, especially out of asia - perhaps the even hairier erectus, Australopithecus or Cynopithicoid crossbreeds. http://www.cfz.org.uk/almasty.pdf

None of this is meant to be anti-semitic. It is common anthropological and pychobiological knowledge. As Eric Trinkaus, the worlds acknowledged living Neanderthal expert wrote in his epic 1996 book 'Neandertal': "Only people from central europe and parts of the middle east can boast Neandertals per se in their direct ancestry". Trinkaus was one of the strongest proponents in arguing Neanderthal interbreeding had occurred well before the 2010 study confirmed it. It is not just genetic evidence that supports this but biological, geographical and behavioural.

'All humans carry the MC1R gene, but modern redheads possess an altered, or mutated version of it. 
This rare variant does not work as effectively as more common forms of the gene. This loss of function alters the chemistry of the cell, producing red hair and pale skin.' There is, however, no reason to believe that the different versions of the MC1R genes that caused red hair in each species would have been anything other than original to them, separately.

'In recent decades it has become apparent that human diversity tens of thousands of years ago was much more complex than previously believed. Some 50,000 to 30,000 years ago, for instance, there may have been half a dozen or more distinct species of humans inhabiting Earth. Besides Cro-Magnons (archaic Homo sapiens) and Neanderthals (Homo neanderthalensis) in Eurasia, in what is now modern Indonesia there was the diminutive “hobbit” form Homo floresiensis34 as well as apparently the last remnant populations of Homo erectus.35 In southern Africa were found the Boskop people, Homo capensis, reputedly with brains 25 to 35 percent larger than those of modern humans.36 In Siberia about the same time there was another population of humans, who may have been a species distinct from those listed above (though perhaps most closely related to Neanderthals), at present simply referred to as the “Denisovans.”37 To add to the list, the indigenous aboriginal Homo sapiens populations of Australia and New Guinea may have been relatively isolated for the last 50,000 years or more.38'

Of course there are other mechanisms which might explain a commonality of genetic material (the 1-4%) - such as shared ancestory (H. ergaster, H. heidelbergensis, H.habilis, H. erectus etc). It is important to note that although we detect a
signal compatible with gene flow from Neandertals
into ancestors of present-day humans outside
Africa, this does not show that other forms of gene
flow did not occur (Fig. 6).
http://news.bbc.co.u...ure/8660940.stm

Some of those old european folktales about mountain Trolls collecting tax under the bridge, Witches in the deep foothill forests casting spells and tricks, short bearded rabbi gnomes, warrior orcs, dwarves, giants and enterprising mountain goblins mining in caves could well have a lot of truth to them. Note common adornment of symbolic hats, heavy brows and sloped foreheads.

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Edited by botanika, 03 September 2011 - 11:54 PM.

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#44 Zen Peddler

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:34 PM

recent article in dutch http://www.nu.nl/wet...uunsysteem.html

says we inherited HLA (human luekocyte antigenes) from denisovans / neanderthals that protect us against many diseases nowadays. and that Asians have up to 95% and europeans about 50% of HLA to thank to our ancestors interbreeding. Africans have almost nothing.

The HLA genes we inherited from denisovans / neanderthals had 100.000's of years to adapt to diseases that were present in Europe.


SO I can blame neanderthals for my Ankylosing spondylitis then - fucking HLA B27 can suck...

#45 Zen Peddler

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:46 PM

Botanika - since when have jewish peoples been connected with the Vandals and goths - people who arrived in Rome from the North?

The lack of real genetic diversity in modern humans indicates a common ancestory for all modern humans. The Huns came down from Finland and Russia and are now regarded as the Maygar. And Cromagnons were nearly as robust as Neanderthals - they could run faster and their woman were of similar size so they could potentially outhunt and compete the poor old Neanderthals. But how many square-eyed cromagnon skulls were found outside Europe and eurasia?

#46 botanika

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 11:02 PM

Botanika - since when have jewish peoples been connected with the Vandals and goths - people who arrived in Rome from the North?

The lack of real genetic diversity in modern humans indicates a common ancestory for all modern humans. The Huns came down from Finland and Russia and are now regarded as the Maygar. And Cromagnons were nearly as robust as Neanderthals - they could run faster and their woman were of similar size so they could potentially outhunt and compete the poor old Neanderthals. But how many square-eyed cromagnon skulls were found outside Europe and eurasia?

12% of the DNA differs amongst human races and populations: http://news.softpedi...ons-40872.shtml
Humans show big DNA differences: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6174510.stm

On May 10, 2010 a Svante Paabo co-reseacher on the new neanderthal DNA study, Johannes Krause, said on the Mid-German TV Network that 'the people of the Middle East, the Semites, were at least from “10 to 20″ percent Neanderthal' (orignally aired in german). The Internet link to this interview on the Mid-German TV Network was deactivated on May 18, 2010. That's 10-20% of the study group. With people from more remote areas not sampled, like isolated middle eastern russian steppe mountain ranges, that % may well be far higher. The evidence and trends suggest a particular group of humans share a much higher degree of Neanderthal ancestory - that there is NOT a common ancestory to ALL humans. There would be considerable motive to censor such information by the MSM, they instead spin the line 'we are ALL neanderthal', not bothering to inform Neanderthal DNA % tapers off towards western europe and eastern asia. We are STILL in the process of 'meeting the Neanderthal' that started 10's of thousands of years ago. They were never truly exterminated - in fact they'll be on the news tonight.

A world history atlas will give you a good indication of the geographical influence of semitic people throughout history and one only needs look at the Middle East and America today to see how a small number of people can infuence vast geopolitical ground.

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'decadence without sickness, health without boredom'
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle

#47 ThunderIdeal

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 11:20 PM

i have no idea if you're really on the right track botanika, but it fits in a bit with the idea of jews being a chosen race sent forth by god, except god and his crew were just similar hominids who imparted their genes in some groups of humans.

why couldn't the other hominids hold their own? just time and pressure, as a mighty stand of trees succumbs to a weed species?

In Occidental theology, the word transcendent is used to mean outside of the world. In the East, it means outside of thought. To imagine that your definitions of your God have anything to do with that ultimate mystery is a form of sheer idolatry from this standpoint. Your God is good enough for you and mine’s good enough for me. A God, from this point of view, is merely a reflex of one’s ability to conceive of God. Since people have various abilities of this sort, they have various powers of apprehending God.


#48 botanika

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:07 AM

i have no idea if you're really on the right track botanika, but it fits in a bit with the idea of jews being a chosen race sent forth by god, except god and his crew were just similar hominids who imparted their genes in some groups of humans.  

why couldn't the other hominids hold their own?  just time and pressure, as a mighty stand of trees succumbs to a weed species?

It's just a theory - keep it tucked away and use it as another lense to view the world - some things might pop into focus. Any person with a reasonable knowledge and logic will admit to the formidability and uniqueness of the 'The Chosen People'.  The Jewish faith is a faith in Yahweh, tolerance, ….'brotherhood and love for all men'. But the only men in their Talmudic eyes are their fellow 'men' of Jewish faith. 'You're either with us or against us'. God’s Chosen People….but the god is “the god of this world”. 'The Holy Land'.  No one said anything about cattle being men.  (And Goy means “cattle” in Hebrew, and also “Gentile”). Jesus was born in Galil Ha Goyim, Galilee of the Gentiles, and almost all his disciples were from Galilee of the Gentiles (Peter was recognized at Jesus’ trial by his Galilean accent.). The satanic kabbalistic mountain goat and cave bear versus the sacred cow (the bull and the bison) and lamb.

What if the real 'Holy Land' - the promised land - was archaicly referring to the Neanderthal landscape...or in wider scope...the essential lands and evolution of all the hominids we know of in europe/middle east like H. heidelbergensis, H. ergaster & H. habilis? Ice Age alpine and glacial lake environments. One has to consider spiritual cognition and basic cultural rituals are very ancient, millions of years old. The Caucasus and Black Sea hinterlands was a last refuge that then flooded 5600 B.C. pushing them insecurely south...to Israel or scattered further back into surrounding mountains. It was much easier for Cro-Mags to enter middle and western europe through the Mediteranean and northern europe via the flatter western side of the Black Sea area. The Atlantic coasts eventually opened up other easy routes in. In western europe the last 1 or 2 brutal Ice Ages may have condensed the Neanderthal into much easier pockets for expanding cro-mags to take over (or there simply may not have been large populations) whereas the Caucasus Jumble are much higher, rugged and mazelike environments. Amount of Neanderthal DNA flow may have been variable by area but generally tapering away from the Caucasus. Getting into Asia and Australia was relatively easy. The 'Garden of Eden' is perhaps a reference to the landscape 'modern human' people originally occupied before the interglacial allowed them north to new resources. Lush 'sub-tropical and temperate heavenly paradises' as the ice age alpine forests receded forming rich river valleys extending from the North African, Solutrean Atlantic, focussing on Mesopotamia and Mediteranean and further east to the Hindu river deltas and beyond plus of course the original ancient African Rift Valley. Those worlds collided like our planet and its moon. 
Middle-earth.

For almost 2 million years we know hominids were in Eurasia and they had to get used to ice ages coming and going. The neanderthals would have long adapted to a cycle of 'Armageddon and Salvation' as ice sheets forced them to move around perpetually 'homeless' for great periods and perhaps slightly neurotic. Other African and Asiatic groups had to adapt to that climate change too but not ice sheets of the same magnitude that made living in certain homelands impossible and ultimately they were more tropically or savannah adapted.

Why didn't other hominids hold their own? Maybe the same reason the Soviet Union, China, the blood brother Arabs, the Latin or native Americans and USA couldn't hold their own and now it looks like europe might not be able to hold its own.  Patterns are repetitive. Religion, Communism, Globalism  :o 

I suspect the evolution of hominids is likely to be a similar pattern to the rise and fall of our civilisations but not nearly as accelerated in novelty. Different sized or behavioral strength waves of influence, difussion, adoption, innovation, divide and conquer. Isolated and stable in some areas, complex and engaging in others - genes fuelled along by resources, climate, environment and now ideology. Sometimes a strong civilization will be outnumbered, exterminated or diluted by its higher population of immigrants and other times a large population expanse or geographical area will be changed by a small but potent minority - whether by diseases, technological superiority/control or aggressive and clever enslavement.

Edited by botanika, 01 September 2011 - 02:39 PM.

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#49 botanika

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 04:24 PM

Tropical 'Hobbits' and 'Alpine Giants'
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Pygmy tribes are found in the equatorial rainforests of Africa, South East Asia and until recently Australia. The discovery of Homo floresiensis in Indonesia introduced a 'new' hominid 'species'. Debate continues as to its exact classification but it is interesting to consider the relationship with modern pygmy tribes considering it is thought to have gone extinct only very recently.

This is the artistic drawing of Homo floresiensis with a 'distant' intepretation that looks more apelike than human, particularly the eyes, nose and mouth.
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This is the artistic model looking crazy and worried but also more accurate. The impression shows straight or wavy hair which is unusual considering endemic equatorial people tend to have curly frizzy hair.
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This is an African pygmy tribe with a suspiciously flirty safari suit explorer.
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These are Malaysian negritos similar to Adaman Island and Phillipines pygmies.
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This is an Australian Pygmy tribe in the rainforest behind Cairns, 1890.
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Their tropical adaptations and small size suggest a lineage from a tropically-adapted Asian Australopithecus, and their “child-like faces” suggest interbreeding with a neotenic Asian Australopithecus. The adult males were between 4½ and 5 ft tall and the women ½ ft to a foot shorter (exactly like floresiensis). These pygmies lived in the rainforest until missionaries drew them out and mixed them with other aborigines; now they are almost extinct. Floresiensis may have been devestated by a massive volcanic eruption that hit Flores 12,000 years ago although stories of their existence have persisted into historical times.

On the opposite end of the size spectrum, it is reasonable to speculate 'Giants' of old european folk-tales or the Biblical 'Nephilim' were more massive archaic eurasian or european Homo heidelbergensis (or even habilis) sub-species or variants, perhaps gaining considerable average size in higher latitudes hunting megafauna. It has been suggested that dwarfism can evolve fairly rapidly due to diet and habitat constraints (ie islands and thick vegetation dominated jungles) so it may be true also that greater stature can evolve rapidly into groups if abundant diet and wide habitat is available (like in the european interglacial periods where plains were filled with large amounts of meat).

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Body mass vs. time, from Ruff et al. 1997. Note the large body sizes of a few individuals after 600,000 years ago, and the subsequent stasis. Also note spikes between 50,000 and 10,000 years ago. Homo heidelbergensis was tall, 1.8 m (6 ft) on average, and more muscular than modern humans. According to Professor Lee R. Berger of the University of Witwatersrand, numerous fossil bones indicate some populations of Heidelbergensis were "giants" routinely over 2.13 m (7 ft) tall.

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Article on Australian Pygmies: AUSTRALIAN PYGMIES

Oliver the 'human chimp'. Check out the Liger footage - that is one very big cat!

Edited by botanika, 03 September 2011 - 11:05 PM.

'By convention bitter, by convention sweet, but in reality atoms and void'
Democritus

'decadence without sickness, health without boredom'
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle

#50 botanika

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 01:35 PM

This is more pseudo science but still fun to ponder. The idea that a large brained alien looking human existed came about maybe due to a misinterpretation because of the small sample size of the original specimens.

The first few skull specimens were found in the early 20th century belonged to large males, which led to the claim of an extinct "large brained" race being discovered in South Africa. Since then more and more skulls of normal size have been discovered and with them the so called "Boskop Race" has been shown to be nothing more than a sampling anomaly. However it is true that Neanderthals had large brains and it is believed early Cro-Mags had large brains by average. Still fun to speculate what such a large brain could potentially do and its possible relationship with climate change/environments.

Aliens

Homo Capensis
Boskop future

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'In the autumn of 1913, two farmers were arguing about hominid skull fragments they had uncovered while digging a drainage ditch. The location was Boskop, a small town about 200 miles inland from the east coast of South Africa.

These Afrikaner farmers, to their lasting credit, had the presence of mind to notice that there was something distinctly odd about the bones. They brought the find to Frederick W. Fitz*Simons, director of the Port Elizabeth Museum, in a small town at the tip of South Africa. The scientific community of South Africa was small, and before long the skull came to the attention of S. H. Haughton, one of the country’s few formally trained paleontologists. He reported his findings at a 1915 meeting of the Royal Society of South Africa. “The cranial capacity must have been very large,” he said, and “calculation by the method of Broca gives a minimum figure of 1,832 cc [cubic centimeters].” The Boskop skull, it would seem, housed a brain perhaps 25 percent or more larger than our own.

The idea that giant-brained people were not so long ago walking the dusty plains of South Africa was sufficiently shocking to draw in the luminaries back in England. Two of the most prominent anatomists of the day, both experts in the reconstruction of skulls, weighed in with opinions generally supportive of Haughton’s conclusions.

The Scottish scientist Robert Broom reported that “we get for the corrected cranial capacity of the Boskop skull the very remarkable figure of 1,980 cc.” Remarkable indeed: These measures say that the distance from Boskop to humans is greater than the distance between humans and their Homo erectus predecessors.'

“There’s just one thing we haven’t quite dared to mention. It’s this, and you won’t believe it. It’s all happened already. Back there in the past, ten thousand years ago. The man of the future, with the big brain, the small teeth. He lived in Africa. His brain was bigger than your brain. His face was straight and small, almost a child’s face.”

Did these ancient people leave any cultural legacy? Perhaps the ancient Manetho, Mesopotamian, Berossos and Vedic Cronologies as well as ancient mathematical and astronomical knowledge descended from larger brained forgotten races?


Wildmen?
http://web.ncf.ca/bz...ePage.yeti.html
http://www.altereddi...masWildMen.aspx

'The Almas, Mongolian for "wild man," is a purported half-man, half animal creature that lives in the Altai Mountains in southern Mongolia and the Caucasus and Pamir Mountains in central Asia. Typically described as human like animals between five and six and a half feet tall, bodies covered in reddish-brown hair, and human like facial appearances and human like hands. Scientists note that descriptions are remarkable similar to descriptions of Neanderthals.'

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'Speculation that Almases may be something other than legendary creatures is based on purported eyewitness accounts, alleged footprint finds, and interpretations of long-standing native traditions that have been anthropologically collected. Almases appear in the legends of local people, who tell stories of sightings and human-Almas interactions dating back several hundred years. Apparently nomadic creatures who frequently move throughout the countryside, sightings by farmers and villagers are common even today.

Drawings which some have interpreted as Almases also appear in a Tibetan medicinal book. British anthropologist Myra Shackley noted that "The book contains thousands of illustrations of various classes of animals (reptiles, mammals and amphibia), but not one single mythological animal such as are known from similar medieval European books. All the creatures are living and observable today."

Sightings recorded in writing go back as far back as the 15th century. In 1430, Hans Schiltberger recorded his personal observation of these creatures in the journal of his trip to Mongolia as a prisoner of the Mongol Khan. He noted that Almasty are included as entries in Mongolian and Tibetan medical books, along with thousands of other animals and plants that live today. Schlitberger observed the Almas creatures himself and described them as hairy wildmen.

In 1871, Nikolai Przhevalsky, a Russian geographer, observed the animals. Przhevalsky was on a Russian funded expedition with 10 other men. Their journey to Mongolia was intended partly as a spy mission (China was experiencing a large Muslim uprising at the time) and partly as a mapping project whereby Przhevalsky would map the Russian-Chinese border. He estimated that the animal weighed around 500 pounds and when running, moved approximately 40 miles per hour.'

'It has been speculated that the Almases are a relict population of Neanderthals while others have speculated that they are surviving specimens of Homo erectus. Others insist they are related to the Yeti of the Himalayas, being closer to apes than to humans.'

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Edited by botanika, 06 September 2011 - 06:32 PM.

'By convention bitter, by convention sweet, but in reality atoms and void'
Democritus

'decadence without sickness, health without boredom'
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle