How they betel in these parts

[kadakuda]

Thought it would be fun to discuss how betel nut is commercially done in your region (or where you have traveled/lived). because as i have seen around SE Asia it is quite different area to area.

in Taiwan it is almost a science, but very much unofficial. some may call it a racket/raquet (sorry, beer limits my vocabulary lol).

here nuts are never sold dried, and are never harvested mature because they become very hard. in my little area machines are used to grade the nuts, the sorting house i frequent has 7 size grades. some of these grades are further sorted, by hand, into different qualities.

ultimately the prices are kept in line across the board, but on the retail end quantity per bag will differ, generally as to quality (best been less per bag for the same price).

there are different preparations here, but all of them work on the same principle. betel nut, betel leaf and hydrated lime. no type differs from this with the exception of substituting betel vine flower for leaf, which is my addiction...its awesome.

i dont have pics of all the types right now, and dont think i can manage photoshop right now anyway, but basically these are the types sold here without getting into quality concerns which are not so noticeable to those who dont chew a lot.

regular

is just an immature nut, about 1/4-1/3 the size of a yellowing nut (about 2cm tops)wrapped in a single betel leaf with some lime on the inside that helps stick the 2 together. the "acorn hat" like thing (man im forgetting all terms tonight) is left on and bitten off prior to putting in mouth.

twins

2 fairly small nuts, which are usually very very soft and juicy (nice to chew) have one sife of each nut cut off and stuck to each other. these 2 nuts are then wrapped in a single piper leaf and lime like the regular version. instead of one slightly larger nut, there are 2 smaller ones...twins. I liek this, but taste is same as regular.

large nuts

some shops, though not as popular, also sell 1/4 nuts from large almost yellowing sized nuts. these are more in the line of 3-4cm long and halved or quartered 9depending on the size of a nut). the reason Taiwan follows a "young nut" tradition is because of ease of chewing, older nuts are harder and so is this one but still chewable. Wrapped in a single betel leaf and lime, taste is same as above. But harder on your gums/teeth. Not so popular locally due to this.

lastly, a least for tonight, here is "Hong Hway". I really dont know how to translate this, at least for now. Hong means red...

this is what i chew almost daily cause it tastes so much better, and like many others I find it FAR stronger than any other type. When i put a new nut in my mouth after about 5mins of holding it i feel blood rush to my head (right now i am feeling it as i put one in when i typed teh stuff above). warm face and slight tingle, at least with alcohol (by the way, betel nut and booze are meant for each other).

A young nut is cut open in half but left connected, so it opens liek a hot dog bun. the inner seed is scraped out and mixed with lime, which makes it red. the mixed seed/lime are rolled in a ball and put back into the nut seed cavity...call it the wiener. then a slice of a betel nut flower (bud) is put ontop, like ketchup/mustard. I have some theories about if they add other things because this chew is sweet and does not have the cotton mouth/bad taste some other chews have. this is actually very tasty and Uckfing strong compared to otehr chews.

prices are generally set by one man in an area, at least around these parts. and everyone follows suite right to the retail outlets. it is a system that follows no government control and has strangely worked very well...taiwan is weird like this, it does this very well...not sure if its like this elsewhere. My farm is surrounded by betel palm farmers and a little further away there are lots of vine farmers as well. they often have to keep coming back all through the night to make sure no one is stealing them wen in season. i am at my farm usually 11am-5am due to my intolerance for daytime heat, so there is very few otehr people to talk to lol. between my drunken already crappy chinese and their half chinese/taiwanese lack of teeth language we come to many agreements on farming lol. price per "jin" (taiwan measure, it = 600g) is usually about $3-$15 US. that is for the farmer, and it goes up step by step. form what i can gather the farmers tend to take it to the grading houses which are sold to distributors which sell to teh retailers. sure, many have "gang" influence, but when we go to ask about things, there is never and angry face, even with the "bosses" of certain areas. its kind of funny, but is really an amazing system how farmers, gang heads, grandmas, children etc all come together. If i didnt feel so weird about it i woudl take my camera in there, its really a bazaar sight!

in travelling the only place i have been to that ate fresh nuts like taiwan was Palau (coincidentally a political ally with taiwan [fuck china!])

in Palau they use the "normal" method like here in taiwan but they use larger nuts. I may be wrong, but i could not find any evidnce of drying or taking out the inner seed in Palau, they ate the outer and inner seed together with lime/piper leaf. They also sell a fun drink...whiskey???? called betel joes. its some kind of 40% booze with betel leaf and nut inside. I doubt there is lime, but i really dont know.

The otehr places i have been that chew betel nut (philipinnes, malaysia, borneo, indonesia, china) have all eaten the larger nuts and cut them open to extract the inner seeds. Some fresh, some dried india style. In borneo they sold HUGE nuts (you can see it right at the main market in Kota Kinnabalu, and other places) that were fully mature (what i would use for growing. BUt hey also sell moldy crap looking nuts because they only eat the inner seed, which is perfectly intact. DIRTY AS ANYTHING ON THE OUTSIDE, BUT RINSING THEM AND CUTTING THEM UP WITH A BETEL KNIFE/SCISSOR THING THEY ARE PERFECT INSIDE.

sorry caps.

another thing i notice country to country is how its almost always sold alongside tobacco (and alcohol in non Islam powerhouses)

how bout where you guys are/have been. how is betel done there?

By far my favourite and most used "ethno".

[∂an]

in Dili, East-Timor, betel is mainly chewed by the women, and to some people it is seen as a mark of the lower class, probably because it is a traditional practice that was frowned upon by the Portuguese missionaries. In the mountains it doesn't have such a bad rap and is still used in traditional religious ceremonies. It is generally sold dried on sticks with cuts down one side of the nut to expose the inside. As you mentioned they get a bit dirty and mouldy but the sellers are always furiously scrubbing them to keep them looking palatable. I bought about 50 nuts, a big wad of betel leaves and a huge bag of lime for 1 USD, but as a foreigner you always get ripped off. I didn't like the idea of basifying my mouth with lime so ended up just chewing the nut and leaf, and it was still pretty effective.

[etherealdrifter]

excuse my ignorance here people but is this 'pan' or is that something else.

a while back, i read a series of books by Paul Mann

one of them being

http://onlydetect.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/paul-mann-season-of-the-monsoon-1992/

and the main character george sansis describes 'pan'. - pretty sure his name was george>anywho>

it intrigued me then.....as it does now

nice read kadakuda, thanks mun

and to u kalika

sorry edit>

in the book he describes the buying of said pan ....as simply walking up to a 'hole in the wall or a street vendor' affair and ordering his 'style' of pan.

so easy and nice

Edited June 17, 2011 by etherealdrifter

[Zen Peddler]

Those Taichung gangsters run that gig

[AndyAmine.]

Yes it is called 'Pan' in India among other places.

[kadakuda]

Fucking Taichung gangsters!

i hear ya, but they aint the only gangstas with their hands in the pot hehe. At least in Taiwan the criminals tend to do a far better job at certain activities, though not as civil when something goes wrong.

etherealdrifter, ya pan is an Indian (and probably surrounding areas have similar names?). it is dried nut with ingredients added, often other herbs are added as well. dried vs fresh betel nut are about the same as dried vs fresh mangoes....i dont hate dried betel nut, but i certainly wont take it if i can get it fresh! Thats interesting you got it to work without lime, usually the lime is needed to get the goods through the mouth.

on a side note many places note that swallowing will make you sick. this is often due to the lime. chew for a few mins and hold it. spit out the first 2-3 mouthfuls, that should dump all the lime. after that i just swallow cause i am often inside and my wife REALLY isnt impressed seeing a betel cup in the house. the nut/leaf has never made me sick, but the lime can sure do a number on the gut/mouth if not right.

[opiumfreak]

betel nut is an aphrodisiac as well it make my whole body a nice tickling sensation especially the genitals

[kadakuda]

ya it can have a nice tingle. it gets more intense with alcohol as well. BUt i find too much kills the mood entirely, also like alcohol.

[kadakuda]

i usually get "hong Hway". Thats the chinese name and i have foudn out they use taiwanese in Taijong so it may be called something else youray? In taiwanese Sorry i amd BAD at trying to "pinyanize" taiwanese): Tsay you know when someone says somethign sarcastic and youre just like: pfft, the chiense word for that "Tsai/Tsay"? thats the taiwanese word for hong hway lol. its the stuff that comes in a box, not bai hway (white), but red. its good man, you will like it. far batter than the regular bags you get. A box, depending on seasonal price, has 4-10 that i have found. I finish a box when i open one cause they only last a day then go black like plants do. A bag of nuts may have 10-20 per bag though, i cant finish a whole bag unless its all day at the farm. But a box is a good size for me.

try to try each type there is here man, there is some real good stuff.

[kadakuda]

$50. Just like that box you have, but other kinds are also put in those boxes. boxed nuts are usually somehow more special, or at least more money cause not as many fit in them and they are still $50. I will try and get some pics next time i pick some up (might be tonight if i cant sleep lol).

edit: 4 am sleep no come...so here is some betel with flower not leaf. I like my betel like i like my weed.

Edited June 23, 2011 by kadakuda

[tripsis]

It's extremely common in India, where it is called 'paan'. Ranges from a fairly simple preparation of the chopped nut, probably with spices and sugar, wrapped in a Piper betle leaf. so much fancier preparations, which are basically the same thing, but with frills. Sometimes you can find 'candied' versions of the chopped nuts, in more expensive stores, rather than the single-seller type street stall. Don't think I took any pictures of how they do it.

The raw fruits with the nut still inside are sometimes sold too, though I suppose the people who sell are the prepared paan would be their customers. Plantations are fairly common in tropical areas and there's the odd wild palm too.

[kadakuda]

thats cool. I have a good idea of how its done there, but i would really like to see how its done. If you ever find pics and have some time you cant fill, 2 eager eyes sitting here

[tripsis]

 

Google has it right.

 

[∂an]

Some interesting info from Rätsch et al's "Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalaya's":

"The betel palm (Areca catechu L.) is one of the sacred traveling plants of the shamans. It has very powerful nuts (supari) that can carry you away" (MR). The betel nut, actually the seeds of the orange colored fruit, are the starting point for the betel blend that is spread throughout Southeast Asia, and that is chewed daily by millions of people. Of these millions of people only a rare few travel into the other worlds with betel. The reason for this is clear: in the commercial usages the fresh, strongly psychoactive fruits are treated or, as is the practice in other industries dealing with pleasurable substances (such as tobacco or tea), they are fermented. The raw nuts are cooked together with milk. "They lose their strength that way, they lose their soul," explained Mohan Rai. Shamans use nly the untreated, raw betel nuts, which are mixed in a solution of dissolved lime. Eventually they are mixed with some salt, are shelled, and are chewed in a betel leaf (Piper betle L., called pan or paan).

There are also repeated reports that other powerful ingredients are mixed in the betel blend – for example, opium, ganja, thorn apple seeds, strychnine, "brown sugar", heroin, cocaine, and so on. A knowledgeable pan wala, "betel merchant", also said that it is mostly clever Indian merchants who mix "addictive" substances into the betel without the knowledge of their clients, in order to make them "addicted". An interesting hypothesis.

 

Would you like some betel nut with you cocaine?

[kadakuda]

interesting. but betel here in Taiwan are very much raw, and I would not call tehm at all close to psychoactive, and I have chewed a LOT at one time. They are a stimulant. THey do have interesting synergies with some things though.

Here, they are cut from the trees with a long pole taht has a knife attached to the end. thrown into the back fo a truck (or into a scooter with poorer farmers/thieves) and taken to a sorting house. the nuts are cut off the stems and placed into bins based on physical aspects. tehy then run them through a machine (i dont know the name, i jsut call tehm "green machines" cause they are always green) whcih sorts them further. Then hand sorted again and bagged to sell to distributors. no sprays at all except some farmers that use pesticides. betel leaf is similar process. farmer picks them, by hand, then rinses and clips offf the stem (too hard to chew nicely) and stacks them. Interesting note that I am sure no one here will care about. The old Taiwan Lonely Planet book shows "caterpillar tea leaves" in its colour photos shots, but these are not tea they are betel leaf. tea leaves are never picked and stacked, but betel leaves sure are and can certainly take on a snake appearanc when large stacks lay on in the basket.

I personalyl think that jsut with betel nut/leaf/lime the most one can expect is some euphoria aside fromstimulation. But thats just my own experience. mixing with other species will surely create other results.

[∂an]

but betel here in Taiwan are very much raw, and I would not call tehm at all close to psychoactive, and I have chewed a LOT at one time. They are a stimulant.

 

maybe you mean betel is not psychedelic, rather than psychoactive? betel certainly is psychoactive, in that it affects the mind. but I agree with you, I haven't had profound experiences from betel, its in the same class as tobacco and coffee to my mind. when the himalayan shaman says "It has very powerful nuts (supari) that can carry you away", you have to remember their approach to intoxication is much different to ours – they are able to induce trance through seemingly benign activities such as drumming, chanting etc, and would use betel to just help them into their natural trance state. an interesting plant, I wonder if its possible to grow it in oz?

[tripsis]

an interesting plant, I wonder if its possible to grow it in oz?

SAB sells them, doesn't it?

[∂an]

SAB sells them, doesn't it?

 

yeah I guess I thought they might import their betel products as they all seem to be processed in some form or another. these guys sell 1/2 m betel palms for $9.95, so must be some people growing in oz. would be well cool to have a betel palm in the backyard

[tripsis]

They probably do. I thought I'd seen plants being sold too, but could be wrong.

They grow pretty tall! I don't imagine it's a particularly difficult palm to grow, considering how common it is in cultivation in Asia.

Edited June 29, 2011 by tripsis

[santiago]

never seen or tried betel but it looks and sounds nice, saw an doco which was maybe 30 years old in the pacific ocean islands somewhere, maybe the solomon islands and the locals have a unique relationship with the sharks, unlike most of the world who fear them the islanders live with them peacefully as respectfully, seeming that their lives consist of fishing and diving they absolutely do not fear sharks, they say the spirits of the deceased inhabit the sharks so when they bump into them it is a long lost relative they feel, even though there are occasional incidents there is no fear of them.

but in respect to the betel there was the village shaman who could summon the sharks at any time, but to do this he had to have chewed betel, if he didnt it didnt work............so he chewed the betel and summoned the sharks to the very stunned doco makers the shark came right up to the shoreline and the old shaman got into the canoe and played with the shark, like a kid plays witha puppy. the very traveled doco people were amazed and so was i, in regards to shamanism and betel nuts they seem to have a very close connection.

[kadakuda]

maybe you mean betel is not psychedelic, rather than psychoactive? betel certainly is psychoactive, in that it affects the mind.

Ya you're right, sorry. I tend to always get psycho------ mixed up, damn dislexeeah.

They wilkl certainyl grow very well in OZ, i have no clue if they do grow there, but i would expect them to. They are easy platns to grow anywhere that never freezes and has access to water. Betel leaf os mor eor less the same, but they sun burn easy in real intense sun it seems.

Betel trees are selectively bred a little bit here for things like shorter trees. But eventually they get too tall to really be bothered trying to get the nuts. So a few years before that happens, most farmers here start new trees. Takes about 5 years to start harvesting. I have some 3-4 year old trees which look liek they *may* put out a flower now, but i jsut noticed now at night so need to double check. Starting palms is also generally done under shade cloth or a cover crop (like banana). when young htey sunburn easy too.

but in respect to the betel there was the village shaman who could summon the sharks at any time, but to do this he had to have chewed betel, if he didnt it didnt work............so he chewed the betel and summoned the sharks to the very stunned doco makers the shark came right up to the shoreline and the old shaman got into the canoe and played with the shark, like a kid plays witha puppy. the very traveled doco people were amazed and so was i, in regards to shamanism and betel nuts they seem to have a very close connection.

 

Have the name of the film, or any more info on that? that sounds incredible!

Edited June 29, 2011 by kadakuda

[santiago]

ill try track it down the name of the doco, it was australian and roughly 20-30 years old, the shaman was a shark sorceror and the people had a close connection with sharks and it was the pacific islands, thats pretty much all i remember but he def used betel to do it, i know others here would have seen it..........it was a late night time filler, on about 2am about 3 months ago on commercial telly, pretty obscure but it should be findable if so ill re-post : )

[∂an]

ill try track it down the name of the doco, it was australian and roughly 20-30 years old, the shaman was a shark sorceror and the people had a close connection with sharks and it was the pacific islands, thats pretty much all i remember but he def used betel to do it, i know others here would have seen it..........it was a late night time filler, on about 2am about 3 months ago on commercial telly, pretty obscure but it should be findable if so ill re-post : )

 

yeah that doco sounds awesome! this webpage has a relevant story on shark priests and betel nut in the solomon islands.

[planthelper]

i went to my local botanical garden yesterday, and asked the super friendly stuff there, for the location of there betel palms, and he showed them to me.

further he promised me to keep some seeds for me, once they are red and fall from the palm.

this is certainly a palm worth growing, it's so beautyfull!

i'm a bit worried about the strengh of those nut's, regarding my first time with this plant, but i think i learned a lot from this thread and others here at sab, about this subject.

if i manage to source some seeds i will gicve them away for free at the exchange forum,

cheers again kada, your input, has aroused my interrest with this plant.

[kadakuda]

cool to get them at the nursery. but betel nut are never red when mature, they go green->yellow-> brown. yellow or brown is for growing.

on a side note i just bought a bag of supply of betel nut here in south Laos and they dont use lime. its the first timei have foudn it for sale here, but they use the nut/leaf and a piece of bark they scrape and chew (dont burn). wierd, i have a piece of bark and the name in Lao (sut cant read it). pics when i get back. anyone else seen something used instead of lime?