Papaver Somniferum

[Yogibear]

Before I begin, let me just emphasize, that the purpose of this post is NOT a 'how-to' for recreational poppy-seed tea. The effects aren't really worth the effort, and consuming the tea at higher doses (500grams+ seeds) - as I'm sure we all know by now - can kill you if you don't have the tolerance to opiates. aside from that, you would have to buy-out the entire rack at your local Woolies or Coles to get a decent buzz. What I'm trying to get at: If you want to get out of it on Opiates, there are much better options than Poppy Seeds.

Anyway,...

Two days ago, I stopped taking pain-killers through necessity, (around 600mg Codeine per day, for a few months now).

So, there I was faced with two options: (1) Cold-turkey it out of me, or (2) give this much talked about 'Poppy Seed Tea' a bash.

Anyone who's abruptly stopped taking any reasonable level of Opiate-based medications will know, that 'cold-turkey' is simply no fun whatsoever: The Cold/hot flushes, restless/wiggly feet when you're trying to sleep, shakiness, irritability and mood swings always gets worse until about day 3 or so, when calmness finally returns. THEN there's the gastro/diarrea.. *sigh*.

So, I figured I'd give option (2) a go. My thinking being, that even if there wasn't enough alkaloids in poppy seeds to notice any effects - even if there're none at all - at least I'd have that comforting placebo effect right? That's something, I figured. I'd probably still have to run to the toilet for the entire first day, but I'd have the comfort of knowing I had eaten *something* that originates from an opium poppy.

..So I rock down to my local Woolworths, and grab myself 6 100g bags of Poppy Seeds, Hoyts.

Well, after two days with no tablets, and not a single whisper of any withdrawl signs, I have come to the conclusion that they actually work.

The *reason* for this post, is that I remember reading a thread a few months back where someone asked what they could do to reduce the symptoms of opiate withdrawl, and thought I may as well confirm - definatively - that Poppy Seed Tea, really does work.

I haven't been taking the 500g doses I've read about online, just 200g (2x100g bags) in a cup of cold water, twice a day. The beauty of it is that the Tea lasts several hours, so you really don't need 4kgs a day: 400gms a day is more than enough to completely remove any trace of discomfort.

So next time you're looking down the barrel of withdrawl from opiate-based pain-killers, go out and get yourself a few bags of Hoyts Poppy seeds to tide yourself over for those first few days.

The method I used couldn't've been simpler:

1) Into an empty 1.25 litre plastic bottle (I used a coke bottle) add 200 grams of Hoyts Poppy Seeds, and enough water to cover the seeds by an additional 1/2 inch or so.

2) Cap it, then shake till your arm starts getting tired. Leave stand for ~20minutes, then shake the shit out of it again.

3) Loosen the cap *just* enough so the liquid can dribble-out, then turn the bottle upside-down over a tall glass and gently squeeze the bottle to force-out the liquid: The thread on the cap will filter-out the seeds for you.

4) Gulp the muddy-tasting liquid, and you're done for the next several hours - 100% withdrawl FREE!

You can add fresh water and re-wash, once you've drained all the liquid out, but you'll only get 2 'washes' or 'teas' out of each lot of seeds. Basically, (after approximately an hour of being wet) the seeds will begin soaking-up water. Once the seeds start doing that, they're spent - might's well just toss em.

I've found that after the second wash, that's usually when the seeds start absorbing the water, and all you'll get is milky-coloured shit not worth drinking.

The first wash will be mostly brown-tinged, the second will be lighter, and by the third - yeah.. white liquid rubbish.

Edit:

I am aware, that replacing one opiate with another isn't really withdrawl, but since you can regulate your own dose, you don't HAVE to guzzle 200 grams at a time: You could stat with 200 grams, and taper down to 1/2 a bag, then 1/4 bag, several times a day, or once every two days. ..Given the ready availability of the seeds, and the fact that it is completely legal to eat Poppy Seeds, I don't believe there are even any legal ramifications to it. Win-Win, it seems to me.

Mind you, you could just as easily go from 1/2 a bag to 5+ bags a day, but that's up to you. All I'm doing is pointing out that the seeds really DO work, and are a very viable option for anyone wishing to throw their Morphine tabs in the bin.

I haven't mentioned anything about the effects either. This's partly because I don't want to advocate heroic dosages, and would like to see these seed-packs stay legal, cheap, and readily available. But also, because my highest 'dose' so far (200 grams) is relatively small, though I certainly notice subtle effects, but yeah, ..

I personally think we should reserve the seeds for those of us who need them, in smallish doses, simply to lessen the anguish of withdrawl.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Yogibear

[Sonny Jim]

Congratulations!

You have just found the super market equivalent of methadone. My congratulation are meant sarcastically because using methadone to treat codeine withdrawal is like using xanax to quit a tobacco habit.

I say the "super market equivalent of methadone" because PST, at the right dose will keep you "well" for at least two days. This ain't a good thing as just like methadone, PST seems to have a long half life, which usually leads to protracted withdrawals. Protracted withdrawals i.e over a month (if your lucky)worth of difficulty eating anything plus diarrhea = prolonged malnutrition and dehydration = one sick person, in a potentially very dangerous situation health wise.

IME PST is the same as PPT. A far stronger concoction than codeine. PST should contain codeine as well as all the other alks (M included).

In other words, if your interested in getting off codeine PST is the last thing you should be taking. Please don't take this the wrong way Yogibear, it's not a slight against you. How are you to know, without going down that road but I can't read what you just wrote and not comment. Plus, I have seen opiate naive people come close to an OD from less than 100g used to make PST (rare but it depends on the person). It all depends on the type of seed on the shelves at the time you go shopping and if they have been pre-washed or not, which can change greatly. There can even be variation within batch numbers.

[Yogibear]

Congratulations!

You have just found the super market equivalent of methadone. My congratulation are meant sarcastically because using methadone to treat codeine withdrawal is like using xanax to quit a tobacco habit.

I say the "super market equivalent of methadone" because PST, at the right dose will keep you "well" for at least two days. This ain't a good thing as just like methadone, PST seems to have a long half life, which usually leads to protracted withdrawals. Protracted withdrawals i.e over a month (if your lucky)worth of difficulty eating anything plus diarrhea = prolonged malnutrition and dehydration = one sick person, in a potentially very dangerous situation health wise.

IME PST is the same as PPT. A far stronger concoction than codeine. PST should contain codeine as well as all the other alks (M included).

In other words, if your interested in getting off codeine PST is the last thing you should be taking. Please don't take this the wrong way Yogibear, it's not a slight against you. How are you to know, without going down that road but I can't read what you just wrote and not comment. Plus, I have seen opiate naive people come close to an OD from less than 100g used to make PST (rare but it depends on the person). It all depends on the type of seed on the shelves at the time you go shopping and if they have been pre-washed or not, which can change greatly. There can even be variation within batch numbers.

 

Yeah well, I didn't claim it was perfect

Still, it's.. mm you have a point actually, though, it *is* alot more natural than Methadone: All you're consuming is the water used to wash food-grade seeds, it's not concentrated or refined in any way at all - simply trace amounts of opium. I've also noticed a calm, anti-depressant effect the last two days, but I haven't been at all 'out of it' just,.. calmer. Mm I should cut it down to 100g I *spose* .. sooner rather than later, but I'n even legally allowed to eat them ffs - how many psychoactives can you say THAT about

Anyhoo, bedtime for me, whilst it's still raining.

And it's still an option worth considering, I believe. being so natural it's not like you're giving-up Bourbon for Methylated Spirits

Moving from any synthetically produced 'medication' to a raw, natural substance, is at least safer in the short term.

[PD.]

All I'm doing is pointing out that the seeds really DO work, and are a very viable option for anyone wishing to throw their Morphine tabs in the bin.

 

Never has for me EVER, even up to and over 1kg from diff sources but i have mates that have used it and have it work for them although they say its well mild. If you have a habit on M then PST aint gon do shit for you, neither is shitty ol cody for that matter lol, morph is a far cry from codeine my friend. Yogi, you would find it a lot easier to taper with the cody if you are serious about tapering, the seeds are just too variable to even think about tapering with and it is far far easier to break the tabs up into halves and quaters or take less tabs and reduce that way. What ever you do its gonna be a tad uncomfortable but working down slowly and jumping off 30mg cody and diving into a big ol bag of weed for a week to numb you aint gon be so bad.

lol, throw ya morph tabs in the bin hahahahahaha, maaan that made me laugh.

Edited March 7, 2011 by PD.

[Yogibear]

lol, throw ya morph tabs in the bin hahahahahaha, maaan that made me laugh.

 

Shhh

You're right, I should've re-read that line before hitting the "POST" button.

Codeine *is* much weaker than Morphine, and why the seeds work so well for myself: They provide traces of codeine AND her big brother, the Morphine'd be what's filling the 'gaps' so well, since I haven't taken Morphine for a quite a while

[Sonny Jim]

PD

It depends on the type of seeds. It can vary greatly. Some are very very potent, some have been washed, some are not even the right species and some are a less potent sub type. My extended group of FOAFs, would say that the right seeds, at the right amount and extracted in an efficient way is comparable to M, oxy, H (you name it) and will easily do when the things are not available. It is not as euphoric as some of them and may not have the rush that a lot associate with the pleasurable effects.

Yogibear

If you have the right seeds then you have replaced your codeine habit with the equivalent of a pod tea habit. It is safer than codeine only if your are getting your codeine from a CWE because CWE is not perfect at getting the NSAID or paracetamol out. Also, I don't think it is technically legal to extract and consume alks from the seeds.

Everyone is different but kicking cody can be very difficult. There is lots of good advice around including what PD just wrote. I will add that when you are ready to kick make sure you look after the nutrition and hydration side of things. Use loperamide (immodium) if you have to. It may be an opiate and you may have to taper from that but dehydration and malnutrition make every thing worse.

Maybe this thread should be deleted in the interest of *all kinds of good reasons* and we can continue the discussion VIA PM or something. Maybe it belongs in the addiction thread.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Sonny Jim

[solomon]

As SonnyJim says it all depends on where you get your seeds.

Ones from the supermarket are usually washed whereas ones from say an Asian grocery store are usually not.

[PD.]

It depends on the type of seeds. It can vary greatly. Some are very very potent, some have been washed, some are not even the right species and some are a less potent sub type. My extended group of FOAFs, would say that the right seeds, at the right amount and extracted in an efficient way is comparable to M, oxy, H (you name it) and will easily do when the things are not available.

 

Yep i agree some are waaaay more potent than other but even when ppl i know have told me a certain brand at a certain time are killer i have never gotten anything from them, like i mentioned in my previous post. There is no way pst could ever compare to M let alone H for me, shit it takes HUGE doses of taz pods to get me anywhere and cody i class the same as pst, has never worked for me at a range of ridiculous doses. My tolerance and method of administration i have no doubt are the cause of these things ;)

[Sonny Jim]

Sorry PD, I edited my post while you were replying. It still makes sense so I will leave it.

[Sonny Jim]

"Yep i agree some are waaaay more potent than other but even when ppl i know have told me a certain brand at a certain time are killer i have never gotten anything from them, like i mentioned in my previous post. There is no way pst could ever compare to M let alone H for me, shit it takes HUGE doses of taz pods to get me anywhere and cody i class the same as pst, has never worked for me at a range of ridiculous doses. My tolerance and method of administration i have no doubt are the cause of these things ;)"

I getcha PD ;)

[Yogibear]

... It is not as euphoric as some of them and may not have the rush that a lot associate with the pleasurable effects.

 

No, I wouldn't class it as Euphoric, though at 200g, my aim wasn't to get toasty; just nip the symptoms in the bud.

... It is safer than codeine only if your are getting your codeine from a CWE because CWE is not perfect at getting the NSAID or paracetamol out. Also, I don't think it is technically legal to extract and consume alks from the seeds.

 

It is safer, because I never bother with farting around with CWE with any tablets, I just click-out a handful from the blister-pack, and swallow; Paracetamol/Ibuprofen and all.. ..So yes, much safer.

Maybe this thread should be deleted in the interest of *all kinds of good reasons* and we can continue the discussion VIA PM or something. Maybe it belongs in the addiction thread.

 

Maybe, I actually figured Planthelper woud've gone all 'cranky-old-man' and deleted it already,.. But Iunno.. As I stated initially: The purpose of the thread is not to give the thumbs-up for recreational PST use, but to offer one more option to try, for people detoxing from Opiates. PD's pointing out the obvious of course, in that someone using H or M isn't going to bother, but it's still an option for some.

Why not inform .. I know, I know, because "then it's open to be abused by everyone and anyone" .. sigh.. Well, *I* for one, found it helpful .. still am finding it helpful

[Alice]

because I never bother with farting around with CWE with any tablets, I just click-out a handful from the blister-pack, and swallow; Paracetamol/Ibuprofen and all..

 

Serious?

[Yogibear]

Serious?

 

Completely.

[solomon]

Dude your liver must be hating you.

[Yogibear]

Maybe, but if it does, it's certainly not giving me any indication how it feels.

I'm 6', 78kgs, fit, active, and, according to how evidence presents itself, perfectly healthy.

*shrug*

[etherealdrifter]

Opiate use is not a light matter to deal with Yogi

Many people play with them for recreation and soon find themselves in a living hell.

Poppy tea methods- are u serious dude?

"Morph is a far cry from codeine my friend"...............ur a classic PD.

[random]

Start caring about your insides as much as you do your outsides. ;)

Thats what's important. But you did say you were trying to get off the codeine yeah?

So lets be supportive of that and wish you well with the journey of treating your body as the temple that it is.

[Yogibear]

Start caring about your insides as much as you do your outsides. ;)

Thats what's important. But you did say you were trying to get off the codeine yeah?

So lets be supportive of that and wish you well with the journey of treating your body as the temple that it is.

 

Thank you, Meeka

... As for you ED, I'm quite well aware of the addictive potential for a range of Opiates; Codeine is simply the weakest, so I've restricted myself to taking that, and not even asked for anything stronger - for years now, and it all started with a part-time residence in Cabramatta, in Sydney, over 15 years ago, so shut-up already.

Edit: Codeine has been the strongest pain-killer I've allowed myself to have. By choice. For ages.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Yogibear

[etherealdrifter]

Thank you, Meeka

... As for you ED, I'm quite well aware of the addictive potential for a range of Opiates; Codeine is simply the weakest, so I've restricted myself to taking that, and not even asked for anything stronger - for years now, and it all started with a part-time residence in Cabramatta, in Sydney, over 15 years ago, so shut-up already.

Edit: Codeine has been the strongest pain-killer I've allowed myself to have. By choice. For ages.

 

It's quite obvious by your tone your edgy.

You sure this approach is working for you?

Besides, dolling out advice on "how to" methods is not a good example for this place.

...As for you yogi....it's etherealdrifter to you. Not Ed.

Ed is someone else here. Oh, but you'd know that if you'd been here longer than 5mins.

all the best to you.

[Sonny Jim]

Hi Yogibear

I am now very concerned for your life. How on earth are you able to achieve a 600mg dose of codeine with out a CWE. Even with panadeine forte (30mg codeine per tab) you would be taking a potentially life threatening dose of paracetamolevery day. If it is over the counter then you are alive against overwhelming odds. Even if you are taking an ibuprofen/codeine mix you are extremely lucky to still be alive.

Maybe it was a good idea that you did post this Yogibear. This thread could save your life. In your case PST is much safer. I can't stress enough, how much safer it is than taking all that paracetamol or ibuprofen.

The only reason you can buy pain preparation with a little bit of codeine in them (in Australia) over the counter (i.e no prescription) is because they have paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin in the tabs. One of the reasons they contain paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin is to prevent people from taking the whole packet and abusing the codeine.

Read up on ibuprofen and paracetamol toxicity. From memory 10g of paracetamol is enough to do serious damage or kill an adult.

You may feel "ok" but it is very likely you have damage to your liver, kidneys, stomach and intestines, heart (their the main ones) from taking all that. Let me put it another way. It is extremely unlikely that you don't have serious damage from exposure to toxic doses of these pain meds.

I hope you are going to reply and say words to the effect of "oops...sorry, I meant 60mg of codeine per day not 600mg". That still equates to a dangerous amount of paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin but it makes the fact that you are still alive less mind boggling.

[CβL]

As far as I know, a slow taper is the best way for you to get back to normal. In order to perform a successful one, you need to accurately reduce the dosages slowly. For this to work with minimal discomfort, you need to know how much you are taking each day, and at what times. I suggest you closely follow an exponential taper (dose, in mg = start_dose*e^[-1*k*days], with k being a constant that you can work out with how long you think you'll need for the taper) as this is the most natural. For this you'll need an accurate scale, and if you're shaving pills - fine sandpaper. Good luck. You're in the cloud now, and you won't be able to see what the cloud was until you are outside of it.

[Yogibear]

Hi Yogibear

I am now very concerned for your life. How on earth are you able to achieve a 600mg dose of codeine with out a CWE. Even with panadeine forte (30mg codeine per tab) you would be taking a potentially life threatening dose of paracetamolevery day. If it is over the counter then you are alive against overwhelming odds. Even if you are taking an ibuprofen/codeine mix you are extremely lucky to still be alive.

Maybe it was a good idea that you did post this Yogibear. This thread could save your life. In your case PST is much safer. I can't stress enough, how much safer it is than taking all that paracetamol or ibuprofen.

The only reason you can buy pain preparation with a little bit of codeine in them (in Australia) over the counter (i.e no prescription) is because they have paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin in the tabs. One of the reasons they contain paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin is to prevent people from taking the whole packet and abusing the codeine.

Read up on ibuprofen and paracetamol toxicity. From memory 10g of paracetamol is enough to do serious damage or kill an adult.

You may feel "ok" but it is very likely you have damage to your liver, kidneys, stomach and intestines, heart (their the main ones) from taking all that. Let me put it another way. It is extremely unlikely that you don't have serious damage from exposure to toxic doses of these pain meds.

I hope you are going to reply and say words to the effect of "oops...sorry, I meant 60mg of codeine per day not 600mg". That still equates to a dangerous amount of paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin but it makes the fact that you are still alive less mind boggling.

 

Nope, 600mg/day lately - 2*30 packs per day.

Till a few days ago, that is. . At the height(s) of my habitual tablet chomping, I would consume well over 48 Neurofen+ every day. Frequently I'd have half a dozen or so left of a 75 pack at bed-time, at which point I'd get pissy about *having* to go out and secure my tablet quota the next day, and cut down a bit - for a while.

I do recall that on the days that I'd eaten a full 75 pack, I occasionally felt abit ill, but nothing to worry about

Then they changed the regulation on 48 and 75 packs, so I would go out and visit two or more chemists every day to full-fill the (calculates) .. yeah 900+.. almost 1 gram daily "habit".

Anyway, I don't feel sick at all. Only when I'd run out, about the end of the second day, I'd start to get flu-y and bluh.

So, you can understand my excitement over the PST: Something natural, costs half as much, and at low doses provides me with a subtle anti-depressant effect for hours at a time.

--J

[random]

Great that you're giving it up then. Those kind of doses would most certainly kill you eventually.

Shit though, 2 panadeine forte put me to sleep... I hope you haven't sustained too much damage to your organs from such massive codeine ingestion.

Best of luck and keep away from those little white bastards if you can.

[Sonny Jim]

"So, you can understand my excitement over the PST: Something natural, costs half as much, and at low doses provides me with a subtle anti-depressant effect for hours at a time."

Yeah mate, I can understand your excitement.

Keep in mind that there are other option. Have you ever tried a two week buprenorphine detox. They do them at methadone clinics. It might be a good option for you when your ready, so why not look into it. I think it works very well to minimize the physical aspects of withdrawal.

If you have been using for a long time, I am sure you realise that the physical withdrawal are usually the least of the problem. The psychological reasons (you talk about enjoying the anti depressant effects of opiates) are often the guts of the situation.

Be careful and I wish you well

[qualia]

psyllium husk will help for ibs symptoms, much better than immodium imo which could land you with constipation