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#1 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 05:03 AM

Coleus is NOT native to the Americas, it was introduced some time in the recent past.

I do not believe it is psychoactive and if it is then the usage would likely be found in it's area of origin in Asia, not in Mexico.
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#2 planthelper

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:43 AM

no, i think there are some reports of very well respected people which used some coleus sucessfully.
there methode was keeping a large ammount of leaves in the mouth for a long time.

there is a coleus type plant, which just looks excactly like sally, i wondered if that one would be even stronger.
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#3 lofty86

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:50 AM

Coleus is NOT native to the Americas, it was introduced some time in the recent past.

I do not believe it is psychoactive and if it is then the usage would likely be found in it's area of origin in Asia, not in Mexico.


it was employed by the mazetecs so perhaps the spanish introduced the species it is a very pretty plant
the main active of coleus blumei is forskolin wich is used in modern medicine to treat parkinsons as it raises levels of cyclic amp (transmitter for dopamine, epinephrine etc) it is also used as an antihistamine so i can see how it could be used as an hallucinagen but perhaps not the way some vendors are marketing it as a replacment for salvia. its also pretty common in body building suppliments for its stimulatory and weight loss properties.
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#4 zelly

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:28 PM

quoting from Garden of Eden, The Psychoactive Use of Flora & Fauna and the Study of Consciousness by Snu Voogelbreinder :

Myself, and some others, have had definite psychoactive results.



The book not only mentions the shamanic use of various species of the plant in Mexico, but other areas of the world as well.
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#5 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:55 AM

The book not only mentions the shamanic use of various species of the plant in Mexico, but other areas of the world as well.


Find me a reference of Coleus being used in Mexico before 1492... doesn't it say something that it isn't native?
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#6 sapito

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:13 AM

Find me a reference of Coleus being used in Mexico before 1492... doesn't it say something that it isn't native?


Where are your references for the countless claims you make?

Does it matter if it originated in Mexico or not? What does it change? If people use it and value it as a teacher plant then so be it. How do you define 'native' anyway? Its a pretty tricky and often contradicting term.

Now can you provide some references on the origins of Coleus and why it is not an active plant?

#7 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:23 PM

Everybody knows it's native to Asia and that area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleus

Native is a very important term and idea... You people in Oz should know best about native and invasive species.
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#8 mud

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:30 PM

I know people who say it's as good as dmt.
Very extreme l.s.a like rush from smoking a bowl of it.

#9 Yeti101

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 03:18 PM

Seriously though, are you saying that 'native' is equal to 'authentic' and that something is only worth taking if it's 'authentic'? This is a separate question to it's psychoactivity (or not). This does sound very similar to your opinion that only 'authentic' ayahuasca is worth taking.

That aside, reports of the activity of Coleus or Solenostemon are wildly varying at best - I've herd tell of a sp that looks very similar to SD that people apparently got results from, but have never experienced it myself. There are active Plectrantus eg Plectranthus barbatus, syn Coleus forskohlii, so another active plant related to these is not unlikely.

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#10 mutant

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 04:31 AM

I know people who say it's as good as dmt.
Very extreme l.s.a like rush from smoking a bowl of it.


lol [it WAS a joke, no? :P]

Dunno about the Sally D looking Coleus, but we 're not looking for a sally-D active here IMO not we're looking for the C.forkolii active with known medicinal properties.

I am talking about a tall variety than can become pretty big, and colours like in taozen's pic and plants of the gods. This a lot unlike many single or multi coloured thinner varieties seen in the trade.

'Coleus blumei'

and , yeah Solenostemon is the 'right' name now
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#11 zelly

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:01 PM

Find me a reference of Coleus being used in Mexico before 1492... doesn't it say something that it isn't native?


Teotz-

If you were to purchase & read the book, you actually might learn a thing or two and be less likely to so frequently toot your ignorance.:wink:

A Mazatec informant reported that C. pumilus and two varieties of C. blumei ['el nene' and 'el ahijado'], were used for their divinatory property of their leaves, in the same manner as Salvia divinorum.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazatec

Mazatec tradition includes the cultivation of entheogens for spiritual and ritualistic use. Plants and fungi used for this purpose include morning glory seeds[1], coleus leaves



A time line for the Mazatec civilization (750-1521) can be found here.

#12 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 09:48 AM

See that is the bullshit I'm talking about! There is no way the Mazatec culture that existed from 750 to 1521 used Coleus! No fucking way!
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#13 mud

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 10:54 AM

yeh I met a member from here who was very excited to share seed,
as his experience

had the whole room melt before his eyes with one cone of the stuff.

#14 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 02:48 AM

I'm pretty sure Coleus didn't arrive in the Americas until at least sometime after 1700... I'd actually guess the date is closer to 1900!
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#15 san p

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 07:13 AM

hi teotz,do you have any knowledge of its traditional use in asia before it arrived in the americas? if not,then i think its use in the americas is of more interest ,therefore the argument over its arrival is fairly unimportant?
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#16 krazykungfu

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 07:17 PM

Most of us should know that Wikipedia is not a reliable academic reference... That being said it's still a great starting point

Regarding Coleus' country of origin

Coleus are native to tropical areas of Southeast Asia, India, Africa and Australia, with the largest population being in Indonesia and Sri Lanka. Coleus found their way into Europe and later, America, by way of traders and botanists


from: http://www.rosydawng...out_Coleus.aspx

Not a good source, but just what a quick google search uncovered, Wikipedia reckons the same but doest not state it's sources either...

As for it's effectiveness - chew some... There's only one real way to find out

I've got plenty growing but haven't been game/bothered yet...

#17 IceCube

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:03 PM

I've tried ones purchased from a local nursery (whom buys off of a national supplier) and from smoking one cone of leaf material dried quickly in the microwave (this goes against what is said about the 'actives' being unstable in heat) I felt like I was going to melt into whatever I was sitting on. The effects only lasted for around 30 minutes and were not the same as other herbs which have only had a light effect such as Lion's Tail (I guess this rules out deep breathing/oxygen deprivation?). If anyone is interested in a cutting of the same plant I smoked, just shoot me a PM.

Regardless if it is placebo or not, it's worked at least 5 out of 5 times so far. That's enough for me to grow it/look further into it.

Also got some seeds labled as "Coleus blumei" which I planted in the last few days :D

Oh and P.S. Southerners, go have a look at Bunnings. They finally have them in stock (don't have in cold months) and I picked up 2 yesterday for $2.20 each.

Edited by IceCube, 18 October 2010 - 09:03 PM.


#18 incognito

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:09 PM

yeh I met a member from here who was very excited to share seed,
as his experience


hey mud, any chance of enticing the memer to come out and talk about this on the forum?
i understand if he wants to hold the info privvy but thats some pretty exciting shit!!

coleus is pretty easy to grow, and sets seed like a mofo so hows about spreading the love?

was it a common coleus or a strain he had isolated!! talk about a prik tease!!

edit - doh thanks ice cube!! id be keen on a cut!


ive heard of peeps drinking it as a tea to no effect and ruled it out, never did i think that smoking could be the go. wicked man!

speaking of salvia, ive heard that a salvia splendens extract is quite similar to sal d effects. dude i used to go to tafe with in wollongbar said he used to extract crystal (though i never saw any) and considered it even crazier than sal d, if that could ever be possible?

Edited by incognito, 18 October 2010 - 09:14 PM.

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#19 IceCube

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:58 PM

doh thanks ice cube!! id be keen on a cut!

ive heard of peeps drinking it as a tea to no effect and ruled it out, never did i think that smoking could be the go. wicked man!

speaking of salvia, ive heard that a salvia splendens extract is quite similar to sal d effects. dude i used to go to tafe with in wollongbar said he used to extract crystal (though i never saw any) and considered it even crazier than sal d, if that could ever be possible?

No worries, chuck me a PM and I'll make it happen :D I've also tried the tea with 7 or so large (half a hand sized) leaves with virtually no effect.

As for the splendens, I shall let you know soon, I'm actually growing some in order to give it a good looking over (smoking leaf/tea/enhanced leaf, etc). A member on here has also offered me cuttings of other potentially active species and I shall post all my results, both positive and negative.

#20 incognito

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:36 PM

do try an extraction on splendens.
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#21 Symbiate

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:31 PM

In regards to whether or not coleus is native to the americas, Daniel Siebert mentions in an article on his website that coleus is introduced (http://www.sagewisdom.org/ott2.html), and references the following article as the source:

Schultes, R.E. 1967. The place of ethnobotany in the ethnopharmacologic search for psychotomimetic drugs. In: Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs Edited by D.H. Efron, et aI., pp. 33-57. (Public Health Service Publication No. 1645). Washington, D.C.


Unfortunately I haven't managed to find a copy of that article.

I've tried ones purchased from a local nursery (whom buys off of a national supplier) and from smoking one cone of leaf material dried quickly in the microwave (this goes against what is said about the 'actives' being unstable in heat) I felt like I was going to melt into whatever I was sitting on. The effects only lasted for around 30 minutes and were not the same as other herbs which have only had a light effect

I've had a similar experience to this. Effects lasting about 30 minutes, relatively mild but with psychedelic undertones and mild visual distortion. Definitely not placebo.
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#22 planthelper

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:22 AM

but were those people reporting smoking sally substitutes with good effects, able to repeat ther findings?

some sally substitutes, seem to work only once or twice, and tantras theory is, that the brain rewards novalety.

i remeber a senior members report about strong effects with some of his legal salvias, but later he said, he could not repeat the process, and claimed the plant was inactive.

i have heard of, some african origin salvias being sold as ethnos in some head shops in europa.
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#23 ubza_1234

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 12:11 PM

i was growing 3 varieties at one stage. A pink with a white center leaves, green with purple centre leaves, and green with yellow centre leaves. I tried boiling maybe 25ish medium sized leaves (for some reason the ones i grew had leaves no larger then about 3inchs unlike the ones at bunnings) of each variety, cooked it down and held it in my mouth. Nothing happened but i felt well sick. Hahaha smoking the leaf did nothing too. i'd like to try some more complex extracts when i have time but at the moment i only have the green and yellow variety left.
In terms of groming them, the yellow one is the strongest and easiest to grow as it takes strong abuse realy well. I cut a few branchs off each vaiety for drying and put the branchs on some shade cloth out of direct sunlight to dry. The two other varieties dried and shriveled quickly within weeks but the yellow variety not only stayed hydrated, but it also became a deeper yellow colour and some parts grew slightly. They stayed like this for over 2months! On the 3rd month they slowly becan to dry.
The less light they get the more beautiful the leaves become. In saying this, i'v dever tried growing them in the dark just shady areas or inside. The tends to bleach them a bit in the centers of the leaves so keep them in the shade and once established they love water like a fish.

#24 mutant

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:46 PM

hello hello

Coleus is active, at least the big variety with nice colours I have talked about. Combined with pot, its mild activity becomes more apparent

Check out my first post here in the coroboree from dec 2007

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coleus tea is out of the question it seems, and quidding, eating and smoking are the ways to go. Anybody who didn't know that hadn't done his homework for sure.

about psychoactive salvias in general

many salvias are active. they are of two kinds excluding S.divinorum. Salvia splendens is definately active causing a repeatable eno-numbing & sedation thing, totally uninteresting IMO. Many salvias are like that , f.e. S. coccinea. I have played a lot with thujone rich species like officinalis or combine with cannabis, but people say this is active alone. S.officinalis is mildly stimulating, for one, in a tea. Anyways the high of splendens is not like divinorum.

I think I should eat some of my -coleus- plants to check the oral activity. I have advocated coleus activity for too long to not have done this yet.
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#25 Thelema

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 06:10 AM

If you UTSE I report on many experiences with coleus blumeii. No effect, even smoking crystals isolated. The only other salvia I have found that generated a unique experience was salvia gregorii. It must be said, however, that homegrown young leaf of S Splendens did on one occasion only produce quite strong effects. Subsequent assays with splendens and gregorii extracts were negative, even on the extracted crystal level.

As regards to the whole C Blumei thing, it is apparently an Urban Shamanic myth that goes back to a crop of the stuff being grown in the household of one of the original Mexican Shamans that intoduced SD to the west. Apparently the daughter grew it in the yard, and when the shaman was questioned about it, indicated that the "coleus" was the "sister" of S Divinorum. And from thereon it was assumed that coleus has some sort of mild activity.

That remidns me, had anyone sussed out the whole "vietnamese balm" thing. (Elchollzia ?)this too was a plant that was meant to mimic SD

Edited by Huichol_Eyebrow, 22 October 2010 - 06:18 AM.

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