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Raising A.Phlebophylla


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#1 kindness

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:11 PM

I have been gifted some phleb seeds... I feel totally honored to have the chance to raise them. I have raised acacia seeds in the past and haven't had much problem getting them to grow. This time round however I am not having much luck at all. So far I have tried 1). Doing nothing to the seed and popping it around 1.5mm in some seed raising mix. 2). Boiling some water in a kettle, pouring this over some seed in a tea cup and leaving till it cools, then planting 1.5mm in some seed raising mix. Both times I have kept the pot in sunlight and spray misted the surface of the soil, keeping it moist.

I have not had a single one come up. It's been months. Are phleb seeds wildly different to other acacias in their requirements for germination?

I am thinking that my next attempt will be to file off a small nick on the seed coating and see if that makes any difference...

Any other suggestions? I have searched the site here, there is some suggestion of ways to raise seeds but I couldn't find any actual descriptions - the closest I have come to any direction is on wikipedia and I would rather get advice from someone here who has real experience.

Thanks in advance.
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#2 Chiral

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:23 PM

hey meanies...look with this seed if it's this years from the place I got some from, then I'm pretty sure but the seed may need to go completely dormant first, freeze, smoked and then awaken next spring with heat and smoke or boiling water scarification ...I'm almost sure that it needs to go dormant at least the first year anyways, but like I say I'm unsure how old the seed is.

Sticking it in the freezer over winter won't hurt it and may in effect help it when time comes to thaw in the fridge then hot water soak in spring.

#3 PD.

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:48 PM

Was fresh seed.

Try nicking or sanding the seed then soaking in cool water not boiling. Not a long soak.
or
Boiling water and then into pots or tray and leave it. After rain you will see them come up. I put some in months ago and there is still new ones popping up here and there after rain. Sharxx had some success with them, 4 out of 5.

Once established they do like wet feet in a way, dislike dry alot.


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#4 obtuse

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:17 AM

I've also had about 4 out of 5, once i worked out a few problems.

the trick with these particular seeds is that the seed coat is rediculously hard, and the poor little plant seems to have a hell of a time trying to break free from it, and either stagnate or rot.

I would scar the coat, soat, and plant, and nothign would happen. a little reading via the search engine revealed others had had the same issue.

What i ended up doing was completely removing the seed coat, very (and i mean very) carfeully with a scalpel, and then planting with the eye pointing down to facilitate upward growth while in such an unprotected state.

Seems to work for me. :)

perhaps it time for some pics :wink:

Cheers, Ob.

#5 kindness

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:24 AM

Okay :) thankyou for the suggestions. I will try some via each method mentioned. Gotta have success with some that way. I haven't completely given up on the ones that I have already sown though. I think that I might pop the whole pot into the freezer for a few days and then thaw via fridge then out into the house near my sunny window.

I'm pretty excited about this plant and would really love to get them going so there are more around given the status of them in the wild.

Has anyone had success using soil from around other acacias or innoculating the soil with some fungus that forms a myco relationship with the plant? I know it has been talked about as a possible way to get the plant through the death at three years old problem...

edit to say is it worth doing the tissue paper in a container method? This has worked for me with P.Cartha + Viridis - these seeds are amazing, there is rot and all sorts of crap in the container I have them in and they have been popping up for the last few months having been in the same container for at least 6 months now!!

Edited by meanies, 29 April 2010 - 08:32 AM.

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#6 PD.

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:37 AM

Yeh dont dismiss the ones tha havent popped yet. One person i was talking to said they just had a few pop up after sitting for 6 months.

The only problem i have had in the past with sanding or nicking the seed coat was seed rotting but as ob suggests try removing the whole hard outer layer as to give them a chance to break free instead of rotting in the shell. Jar and sandpaper should work for bigger amounts but for a few seeds prolly best to steal ya GFs nail file lol

I also have tried burning the seed pods with the seeds sitting on the soil just beneath them. Got alot of germinations from this but it was after i had given up on them and recycled the soil, lil buggers started to pop up after that lol. Was a pretty intense lil fire too and some seeds lookd absolutely fukd so that gives indication of the hardness of the seed coat, mite try that one again soon a bit more controlled.

Ill def go back and get some more seed this year for a few more ppl, after some time we should have this method down and have lil phlebs everywhere :)

#7 kindness

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:21 AM

I just had a bit of a dig around in the pot my seeds are in. They have swollen heaps, probably twice the size they were when fresh - so I guess I might just leave that first lot and try the other methods on some of the ones I've got left.

Righto so I'm going to try the following:

1.) Leaving some seed in the freezer for spring

2.) Putting some seed in the freezer for a couple of days, then fridge, then scarifying by pouring boiled water on them and leaving to soak for an hour or so.

3.) Nicking the seed with a nail file then soaking in warm water for an hour

4.) Removing the entire seed coat, planting with the eye pointing down

5.) Leaving the ones I already have scarified, (by pouring boiling water over them) in the pot they're in and see what happens...

6.) Plant some (around 1 - 2mm deep) and make a fire over the top, using euc' leaves, (fast and hot fire).

I think I have enough seed to try around 5 seeds per method. Will report back with germ rates.

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#8 obtuse

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:58 AM

I just had a bit of a dig around in the pot my seeds are in. They have swollen heaps, probably twice the size they were when fresh - so I guess I might just leave that first lot and try the other methods on some of the ones I've got left.


You can take them out and remove the seed coat even at this point. it was at this point that i got worried.

I had a small group of seeds that got stuck in the seed coat and rotted, so i didnt want a repeat. and after reading a post by torsten about removing/loosening the seed coat if seeds hadnt shown growth after two weeks, i tried this method, and they are

but all worth experimenting with if you have enough material, id rather not take too many risks with this species, and i have sadly lost more than i would like to have.

i have had similar issues with some obtusifolia seeds as well.

Cheers, Ob.

#9 spunwhirllin

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:18 PM

I've had 4 year old seed germ after being in the soil for a year.I used smoke infused vermiculite.
I'm reluctant to keep the feet too wet,have had a stalk rot.

#10 Snaggletooth

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:02 PM

from what i have heard.. these been endemic to such a small area which has quite specific environmental qualities such as night temp as low as -10C and possible day time temp as high as 40C for example, these are extremely difficult to grow outside of these climatic conditions, not impossible. One thing which would be a huge help in growing seedlings is finding the right Rhizobia bacteria to help roots establish and create the symbiotic relationship a lot of legumes need to thrive.

#11 Maurice

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:18 PM

Have you tried here-
http://en.wikipedia....ia_phlebophylla

#12 obtuse

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:13 PM

Have you tried here-
http://en.wikipedia....ia_phlebophylla


yeah :lol:

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Edited by obtuse, 29 April 2010 - 08:14 PM.


#13 kindness

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:16 PM

@ obtuse - hah! I just pulled three of the seeds I had in the pot out and peeled the seed coating off, it came off so easily :) hoping that this spurs them toward some action! The embryo's inside were perfectly healthy and quite waxy feeling. I reckon they are going to be ok :)

@ spunwhirlin smoke infused vermiculite sounds interesting, did you infuse the vermiculite with smoke yourself?

@ snaggletooth, yeah it would be good to know that stuff wouldn't it.. I don't know enough about it to make any educated comment however.

@ maurice, yeah, looked at that... some good stuff there, would be nice to add to it and to see phleb seeds become widely available if cultivation techniques keep getting better.

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#14 Chiral

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:30 PM

In the spirit of the thread what are the recommended soil properties for this one...granite rocks, ryhzobes etc..

What I would like, is a small bag of soil from the mountain to get the seedlings underway next spring, if that's ethical.

#15 spunwhirllin

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:55 PM

Its not that difficult to raise them outside of there natural habitat,I have a 9 year old plant,whats difficult is getting them to flower and produce seed before they die of old age.
You can buy the smoke infused vermiculite on ebay.

Edited by spunwhirllin, 29 April 2010 - 10:02 PM.


#16 tripsis

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:02 PM

I've been thinking about the requirement for this species recently, not because I have seeds to play with, but just because if I do end up getting the chance one day, I'd like to have a plan. A bag of soil from Mt. Buffalo might be best, but I think just going out to your local bush and gather soil and roots from around various Acacia and Eucalyptus species would be a good start, especially if you can see mycorrhizas around the roots.

what's considered old age spunwhirllin?

edit: typo

Edited by tripsis, 30 April 2010 - 08:19 AM.

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#17 spunwhirllin

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 10:07 PM

Old age,I'm thinking about 10 to 12 years.
I'm sure rhizobium isn't that big of an issue,planting side by side with any legume should help,if its even necessary.I've never innoculated any of my Acacia's,and they seem to grow okay.

Edited by spunwhirllin, 29 April 2010 - 10:10 PM.


#18 PD.

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 07:55 AM

I'm reluctant to keep the feet too wet,have had a stalk rot.


Yes but do all the lower phyllodes fall during hot weather???

What I would like, is a small bag of soil from the mountain to get the seedlings underway next spring, if that's ethical.


No problems ol fella.

#19 Snaggletooth

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:13 AM

@ spunwhirllin: would love to see a photo, would be awesome to see an old one in cultivation.

#20 spunwhirllin

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:46 PM

PD
Yep,the lower phyllodes drop every summer,and aren't replaced,so yea it's naked at the lower portion.
I do water it quite a bit in summer,but still try to hold back some.Gotta realize I haven't the resources to replace it. :wink:

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Edited by spunwhirllin, 30 April 2010 - 09:52 PM.


#21 Mycot

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:02 PM

Beautiful plant Spunwhirlin.
I prefer scarification and then soaking in water for a period.
The seeds should have absorbed enough water to be obviously swollen.
Pleb seed often takes longer to germinate than other acacia species sometimes as long as three to six months although taking just one month is not unusual.
What one wants to avoid is seed rot and fungal attack for this period.
I place the seed in sphagnum moss because the Ph inhibits fungal attack.
Keep an eye on it and once it germinates and puts out a root it's then planted with the seed above the soil surface and only the root buried.

Edited by Mycot, 01 May 2010 - 03:04 PM.

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#22 PD.

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:29 PM

Gotta realize I haven't the resources to replace it.


give it a week or so ;)

#23 Chiral

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:44 PM

Beautiful plant spun, the leaf is quite different to wild ones though isn't it..growing conditions..?

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#24 spunwhirllin

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 10:47 PM

The phyllodes were broader when the plant was younger,and I'd assume that the growing conditions most certainly play a role.
The key to identification is the undulating edges of the phyllodes.

#25 PD.

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 07:54 AM

Yeh phyllode shape and size varies alot even on single specimens. Juveniles tend to have much larger and irregular shaped.