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mao a and the criminal gene


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#1 t st tantra

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 08:10 AM

heard about this on the law report on radio national this week.am surprised i had not heard about it before.

there is apparently a gene which causes low mao a levels in some racial types.
70%of chinese and also maoris and pacific islanders were mentioned.
for them it has been termed the criminal gene.

for caucasians expression is aparently different and the term worrier gene was mentioned.

it was stated nature and nurture were both involved in its expression.

legal cases were mentioned in the report.

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#2 tripsis

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 08:20 AM

Nothing like a bit of controversial science combining genetics and an apparent predisposition of certain races towards crime to cause a stir.
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#3 The Dude

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 09:32 AM

Don't know much about mao a, assume its got something to do with violence based on the criminal/warrior thing.

...because violence is a criminal tendency in non-whites and a warrior quality in whiteys! The differentiation is pretty funny. War is just sanctioned violence (crime) so this is dumb.

Warrior/Criminal is a matter of social context. Napoleon was a hero to many, a mass murdering criminal to others.

...sounds interesting
It's all been said before

#4 tripsis

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 09:48 AM

Agreed, it really just comes across as racially biased pseudo-science, when presented in such a stupid (and racist) way.
Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly. Edward O. Wilson 1992

Donít believe all this crap you hear about primitive people and their lovely equilibrium with the environment. All societies disturbed the environment to the extent of their population and the technology available. They're the only two things that matter - population and the technology available. John Pickard 2011

#5 Neoshaman

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:05 AM

Agreed, it really just comes across as racially biased pseudo-science, when presented in such a stupid (and racist) way.

I think the point being made is this gene that lowers Mao a can generally create a disposition to be violent to ones fellow man I think the fact there was a differentiation made between caucasians is not really right and kind of takes away from the value of the information although the whole arguement kind of opens a myriad of ethical concerns IMO , will future governments craete mandatory screening for this gene , will parents invest in gene screening to eliminate it , will people identified to have this gene be required to take some form of drug , I find the reaserach rather intresting however the path that this kind of knowledge may take us on could be a rather scary one
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#6 Alchemica

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:12 AM

Are The Monoamines Involved In Shaping Conduct Disorders? http://www.medicalne...cles/163824.php is worth a read.

#7 t st tantra

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 06:08 PM

you appear to have misread worrier,one who worries as warrior.....opposite ,maybe, expression in caucasians.

i have wondered about entheogens being used in some older cultures for warfare but producing peace and love in the modern western cultures.i thought it was because these are programmable experiences.

http://www.abc.net.a...010/2826652.htm

Next time you commit a crime, rather than blame your parents, your socio-economic disadvantage, or your mental state, try pinning responsibility on your DNA!

Convicted murderer Abdulmalek Bayout recently made legal history when a court in Italy reduced his sentence because it accepted that Bayout was genetically predisposed to being aggressive and violent! Controversial...well it gets worse...the so-called crime gene is more prevalent in some racial groups than others!


t s t .

#8 ThunderIdeal

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 03:29 PM

it is a gene

calling it a crime gene is stupid

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#9 bℓσωηG

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 03:41 PM

i watched a show once on social phobia or extreme shyness , they diagnosed some extreme cases as a chemical /genetic trait passed down through the ages which stemmed from their ancestors need for survival ,them being an oppressed /hunted people or race... i dont know about criminal, but fearlessness sure would be brain chemistry aided

#10 Torsten

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 12:52 PM

I saw a doco on this issue nearly 10 years ago, but there they called it the risk taking gene, which I think is much more appropriate. The low MAO-a causes an increase in dopamine which is well known to increase risk taking behaviour. At the tiem genetics wasn't too reliable, so the study was actually more epidemiological. ie they looked at the prison population in several countries and found that about 50% of them had low MAO-a, while the incidence in the general population was something like 5%. When they looked at only the violent and sex offender part of the prison population the ratio was higher again - somethign like 80%.

Obviously calling it a crime gene is stupid, but the underlying epidemiological data [and now genetic data] is very interesting and significant. If remorseful repeat offenders would have the option to curb their urges via pharmacological means then this should be offered to them as an option.
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#11 ThunderIdeal

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:01 PM

i'd like to hear about people with this gene who manage to live a decent life without attacking innocent people. let's say these people exist, they have a good mind and a moral guidance system. what kind of lives would they lead? does the gene inevitably lead to a problematic life, or can the recipients of this gene navigate through the pitfalls and rise above their urges, somehow moderate the effect so it doesn't slowly drag them down, and transform into fairly extraordinary people?

what do the resident brain chemistry experts think?

In Occidental theology, the word transcendent is used to mean outside of the world. In the East, it means outside of thought. To imagine that your definitions of your God have anything to do with that ultimate mystery is a form of sheer idolatry from this standpoint. Your God is good enough for you and mine’s good enough for me. A God, from this point of view, is merely a reflex of one’s ability to conceive of God. Since people have various abilities of this sort, they have various powers of apprehending God.


#12 Slybacon

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:02 PM

Low MAO-a might be a product of lifestyle perhaps. I know that some genes are activated by lifestyle. Whales Tail, and some fish species will develop different genes depending on location and lifestyle. Either way blaming unsocial behavior on genes is going to open a can of worms for court cases
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#13 ThunderIdeal

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:16 PM

i believe in personal responsibility, and i hope the courts will uphold the idea that an individual is responsible for their actions. we are all different, we are all more or less inclined towards particular behaviours, by our genes, our upbringing and our circumstances.

the first thought that comes to my mind on the issue is if you say you are not accountable for your actions, then why should society give you the same level of freedom as people who will be held accountable for their actions? if you can't moderate your behaviour you are essentially child-like, IMO plenty of people are child-like but most of them don't go around bashing and raping people. accept the full punishment for this sort of unacceptable behaviour, or accept that you can't be trusted with freedom.

In Occidental theology, the word transcendent is used to mean outside of the world. In the East, it means outside of thought. To imagine that your definitions of your God have anything to do with that ultimate mystery is a form of sheer idolatry from this standpoint. Your God is good enough for you and mine’s good enough for me. A God, from this point of view, is merely a reflex of one’s ability to conceive of God. Since people have various abilities of this sort, they have various powers of apprehending God.


#14 Teljkon

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 05:58 AM

This is going to be relativly harmful in my court system as ive seen from personal experinces the courts are far less intrested and effective at prosacuting violent crimes than prosacuting other areas of the law, like say the cash cow of alchool and drug users! oh well the wrold getting that much more fed up!

#15 Alchemica

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 07:23 AM

Free will is an illusion, biologist says
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Three different models explain the causal mechanism of free will and the flow of information between unconscious neural activity and conscious thought (GES = genes, environment, stochasticism). In A, the intuitive model, there is no causal component for will. Will influences conscious thought, which in turn influences unconscious neural activity to direct behavior. In B, a causal component of will is introduced: unconscious neural activity and GES. But now will loses its "freedom." In C, the model that Cashmore advocates, will is dispensed with. Conscious thought is simply a reflection of, rather than an influence on, unconscious neural activity, which directs behavior. The dotted arrow 2 in C indicates a subservient role of conscious thought in directing behavior. Credit: Anthony Cashmore.

(PhysOrg.com) -- When biologist Anthony Cashmore claims that the concept of free will is an illusion, he's not breaking any new ground. At least as far back as the ancient Greeks, people have wondered how humans seem to have the ability to make their own personal decisions in a manner lacking any causal component other than their desire to "will" something. But Cashmore, Professor of Biology at the University of Pennsylvania, says that many biologists today still cling to the idea of free will, and reject the idea that we are simply conscious machines, completely controlled by a combination of our chemistry and external environmental forces.

http://www.physorg.c...s186830615.html



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Edited by Alchemica, 04 March 2010 - 07:47 AM.


#16 incognito

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 09:59 AM

Hitler would have loved this stuff!!
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