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What is the universe inside?


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#1 Slybacon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:27 PM

If the universe is expanding. What is it expanding into?
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#2 Quill

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:31 PM

whoa! I got a feeling that that is gonna plague me

wish I had something profound to add

Edited by Quilliam, 27 January 2010 - 04:32 PM.

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#3 ~shameless~

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:41 PM

......Something so infinantly small that it has to be ,in turn ,part of something that again is so infinantly small which again is probably fitted into something smaller again......... and so it goes on
'just be a shameless muva phuka

#4 Quill

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:49 PM

or maybe we're just pushing more dirt out of our pot. but what happens to the dirt?
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#5 JDanger

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:53 PM

The universe isn't expanding. Our measuring stick is shrinking.
I disagree.

#6 Slybacon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:02 PM

Infinity comes to mind. It expands into imagination (land). Would It will continue for as far as we could imagine? hypothetically if you were to stop time and get into a space ship and continued in one direction for a very long time say at a fraction less then the speed of light for a fraction more then the age of the universe since the big bang would you keep going infinitely. Or would it be more like those computer games where you just come back on the other side and you hit your starting point again?
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#7 Quill

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:12 PM

I reckon you'd keep going into nothingness/ infinity but then surely the nothingness is part of the universe as well.
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#8 paradox

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:39 PM

If the universe is expanding. What is it expanding into?


my mind...& your mind too...

#9 Quill

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:45 PM

surely it could scout some more spacious areas :wink:
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#10 Yeti101

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:55 PM

The "main-stream" physics answer is that it is expanding, but that this doesn't mean that it is expanding into anything. Make sense of that if you can!

pulvis et umbra sumus - we are dust and shadows (Horace)


#11 Slybacon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:58 PM

Yeah, that totally makes sense :blink:

Edited by Slybacon, 27 January 2010 - 06:58 PM.

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#12 paradox

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:51 PM

surely it could scout some more spacious areas :wink:


what could be more spacious than your mind? after all thats the only place the universe exists... right?

#13 Yeti101

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:09 PM

what could be more spacious than your mind? after all thats the only place the universe exists... right?

mmm boundary of observable universe is inside my head...love it!

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#14 C_T

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:13 PM

what could be more spacious than your mind? after all thats the only place the universe exists... right?


Well no, the universe is physical. Hubble and the telescope tell us this.

#15 Yeti101

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:29 PM

Well no, the universe is physical. Hubble and the telescope tell us this.

How do you know that the Hubble telescope (and everything else) is physical as opposed to an illusion or simulation? :wink:

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#16 Quill

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:36 PM

touche xoda touche
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#17 paradox

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:54 PM

Well no, the universe is physical. Hubble and the telescope tell us this.


yes but the subjective experience of physicality only exists within the mind. the physical universe is only a conception. it's just a thought...or a collection of thoughts. so does the physical universe exist independently of the mind? well yes... but no... as it's existence is wholly reliant on an observing perspective. to speak of the physical universe without the mind to observe it is meaningless... & to do so would be to think in an abstract way using the imagination.. which is also entirely a construct of the mind... just like everything else.

...the pixels in these letters on this screen exist right? hmmm... well...yes but in YOUR mind. the act of observation & cognition brings them into existence & they exist in your mind just like everything else right NOW.

you're the creator of the entire universe & it's all occurring...expanding within your mind this moment. it can't be any other way

this is the ultimate definition of paradox... it can't be understood. perhaps though, it can be realized?

whatever...



beansprouts







...IMO

#18 Slybacon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:56 PM

So if man can imagine a machine to see further into the sky and builds this machine, would what he see's with his machine be a product of his imagination?
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#19 C_T

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:59 PM

How do you know that the Hubble telescope (and everything else) is physical as opposed to an illusion or simulation? :wink:


oh stop trying to mind fuck me :P

#20 Slybacon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:01 PM

oh stop trying to mind fuck me :P


Why, are you scared your mind is gonna cum all over it self... :rolleyes:
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#21 JDanger

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:25 PM

So if man can imagine a machine to see further into the sky and builds this machine, would what he see's with his machine be a product of his imagination?

I think you're putting Descartes before des horse. If a man gets shot in the head, is it all just in his mind?

Personally I'm not convinced we can dismiss the physical world as a simple illusion. We can well make the claim that mind holds subjective priority over the physical world, but all we're really saying there is that subjective experience is more real than abstract theoretical law, as given by immediate experience. That's not a very interesting claim.

This makes our claim epistemological--a matter of knowledge--rather than a claim on reality itself.

Phenomenologically the physical world feels very real to me, even if I only ever experience a filtered simulation of it.

In short, there is an external world, else our imagination would have nothing to hold on to. All things being equal, my house is always around me when I get up in the morning. If it was all in my mind, a few too many drinks the night before may mean I forget to imagine it. Seems a little silly to me.

Edited by JDanger, 27 January 2010 - 09:29 PM.

I disagree.

#22 Quill

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:36 PM

Descartes, Danger? You're Desman. The argument or questions posed seem to me reminiscent or related to solipsism. ie the universe in which a person exists being a product of that person's mind


edit: on readings xoda's post again I think that this is a misrepresentation/simplification. But i'lll leave it there because Solipsists are interesting

Edited by Quilliam, 27 January 2010 - 09:38 PM.

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#23 Slybacon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:40 PM

I think you're putting Descartes before des horse. If a man gets shot in the head, is it all just in his mind?


In short, there is an external world, else our imagination would have nothing to hold on to. All things being equal, my house is always around me when I get up in the morning. If it was all in my mind, a few too many drinks the night before may mean I forget to imagine it. Seems a little silly to me.


Ok, so the question remains. If the material universe is expanding, expanding into what? Everything starts to seem a little silly when you look closer.
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#24 Quill

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:45 PM

There's more nothing in between the things, I think maybe the key to this pickle is trying not to see the border of the universe as a clear distinct thing.
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#25 Slybacon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:47 PM

Its kind of like the tree falling in the woods thing......
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