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I took a cutting today off a plant I ID'd as Solandra something (it's variegated)

It really just had that look about it, but google pictures came through with a search "massive yellow cup flower", or something along those lines.

There was a few mentions of it a while back, just wondering what sort of experiences people have had with this one, what can I use it for, does it differ much in alkaloid profile/effect to other solanales of that 'nature'?

I may be able to get more cuts, I just have to see the willie nelson looking dude who owns it :lol:

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i have read from a reliable source (which i can't effing find right now dog dammit!) that solandra brevicalyx, known as 'Kieri' by the huichols is highly sacred to the huichols & certain other mexican tribes.

i will do some searching & see if i can come up with the reference but i remember reading that to the huichols, Kieri rivals peyote in terms of it's importance in their spiritual tradition., which, if it's true is certainly saying a lot!

a very interesting plant & it's flowers are huge & beautiful! i recently successfully rooted some cuttings. only have a few but i'm gonna put them up for trade on here soon.

but we're talking tropanes here so much care should be taken whith experiments.

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the following is taken from The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants: Ethnopharmacology and Its Applications by christian rastch source

Psychoactive Material • Flowers • Stalks • Leaves Preparation and Dosage A tea can be made from the stalks (Schultes and Farnsworth 1982, 166*). The fresh stalks can be pressed to obtain a juice; "the shoot juice of Solandra maxima [= S. nitida] is an inebriant of the Mexican Indians" (Bremness 1995, 29*).

The Huastec are said to still ingest the flowers of solandra nitida ritually and to place the scented flowers on altars as an offering (Alcorn 1984, 320, 793*). The Mixtec also are reported to traditionally ingest Solandra as a hallucinogen for divination (Avila B. 1992*). The most well-known use of the "plant of the gods" known as kieli or kieri occurs among the Huichol Indians who now live in the Mexican state of Jalisco. One of the plants they use has been botanically identified as Solandra brevicalyx (Knab 1977, 86).

The Huastec use the rainwater or dew that has collected in the buds of solandra nitida as eyedrops to improve sight (Alcorn 1984, 793*). A tea made from the flowers is drunk to treat coughing (Yasumoto 1996,247). Constituents All of the Mexican species of Solandra contain potently hallucinogenic tropane alkaloids.

In Mexico, solandra nitida Zucc. (Perilla) is regarded as poisonous (Jiu 1966, 256*). A tea made from one flower induced a "toxic psychosis" in an adult, who required thirty-six hours to make The illustration to the left shows the kiele plant {Solandra sp.) on a Huichol yarn painting; the blooming shrubs to the right are from wall paintings at Teotihuacan and may represent Solandra bushes. (From Ratsch 1994) "Rue, leaves of henbane and thorn apple, dried Solandras and myrrh; these are the odors that are pleasing to Satan, our lord.

Solandra brevicalyx Solandra guerrerensis Solandra guttata solandra nitida Solandra spp. Solanum dulcamara Solanum hirtum Solanum nigrum Solanum villosum Solanum spp. Withania somnifera Scrophulariaceae Digitalis purpurea Lancea tibetica Scoparia dulcis Bignoniaceae Tanaecium nocturnum Acanthaceae Justicia pectoralis var. stenophylla Pseuderanthemum sp. Teliostachys lanceolata var. crispa Lentibulariaceae Utricularia minor Valerianaceae Valeriana officinalis Valeriana spp. Campanulaceae Isotoma longiflora Lobelia inflata Lobelia tupa Lobelia spp.

Solanda grandiflora and solandra nitida are the most commonly cultivated species for garden and ornamental use (Bartels 1993, 207*). Appearance The perennial, heavily branching, fast-growing climber develops oblong-elliptic leaves that are up to 15 cm in length and tapered at the end. The solitary, terminal, chalice-shaped yellow flowers exude a sweet scent, usually in the evening, that is intoxicating, delicious, and very fine. This scent is comparable to the perfume of Brugmansia suaveolens or Brugmansia x insignis.

The flower of solandra nitida can attain a length of 20 cm. Its fruits, known as papaturra, can weigh as much as 1 kg (Bartels 1993, 207*). Solandra species can be confused with the tropical dogbane Allamandra cathartica L., a potent laxative (Blohm 1962, 79 f.*). Psychoactive Material — Flowers — Stalks — Leaves Preparation and Dosage A tea can be made from the stalks (Schultes and Farnsworth 1982, 166*). The fresh stalks can be pressed to obtain a juice; "the shoot juice of Solandra maxima [= S. nitida] is an inebriant of the Mexican Indians" (Bremness 1995, 29*).

The Huastec are said to still ingest the flowers of solandra nitida ritually and to place the scented flowers on altars as an offering (Alcorn 1984, 320, 793*). The Mixtec also are reported to traditionally ingest Solandra as a hallucinogen for divination (Avila B. 1992*). The most well-known use of the "plant of the gods" known as kieli or kieri occurs among the Huichol Indians who now live in the Mexican state of Jalisco. One of the plants they use has been botanically identified as Solandra brevicalyx (Knab 1977, 86).

The Huastec use the rainwater or dew that has collected in the buds of solandra nitida as eyedrops to improve sight (Alcorn 1984, 793*). A tea made from the flowers is drunk to treat coughing (Yasumoto 1996,247). Constituents All of the Mexican species of Solandra contain potently hallucinogenic tropane alkaloids.

In Mexico, solandra nitida Zucc. (Perilla) is regarded as poisonous (Jiu 1966, 256*). A tea made from one flower induced a "toxic psychosis" in an adult, who required thirty-six hours to make The illustration to the left shows the kiele plant {Solandra sp.) on a Huichol yarn painting; the blooming shrubs to the right are from wall paintings at Teotihuacan and may represent Solandra bushes. (From Ratsch 1994) "Rue, leaves of henbane and thorn apple, dried Solandras and myrrh; these are the odors that are pleasing to Satan, our lord.

Solandra brevicalyx Solandra guerrerensis Solandra guttata solandra nitida Solandra spp. Solanum dulcamara Solanum hirtum Solanum nigrum Solanum villosum Solanum spp. Withania somnifera Scrophulariaceae Digitalis purpurea Lancea tibetica Scoparia dulcis Bignoniaceae Tanaecium nocturnum Acanthaceae Justicia pectoralis var. stenophylla Pseuderanthemum sp. Teliostachys lanceolata var. crispa Lentibulariaceae Utricularia minor Valerianaceae Valeriana officinalis Valeriana spp. Campanulaceae Isotoma longiflora Lobelia inflata Lobelia tupa Lobelia spp.

Edited by xodarap

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wow cool info right there

checked it isn't an Allamanda cathartica

will make a smoke mix, got some leaves drying now

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The Huastec use the rainwater or dew that has collected in the buds of solandra nitida as eyedrops to improve sight (Alcorn 1984, 793*).

That would be an interesting experiment. My eyes are shit and apart from being blind :lol: what could be worse. But really, I read some where a long long time ago about an African tribe who did much the same thing and it improved normal sight and stimulated their third eye and they would see visions for days after. I don't recall the plant. I wonder what a brugs would be like maybe? You would have to prop up a flower though :lol: Maybe an idea for a tincture? pour 90% proof into one flower, soak overnight and drink. :puke: Careful kids! Don't try this at home :)

Interesting thought though...

Hutch :wink:

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Histroically, there is similar reference to this in western culture with a similar plant:

...The common name belladonna originates from its historic use by women - Bella Donna is Italian for beautiful lady. Drops prepared from the belladonna plant were used to dilate women's pupils, an effect considered attractive.[19][20] Today it is known that the atropine in belladonna acts as an antimuscarinic, blocking receptors in the muscles of the eye that constrict pupil size...
Wikipedia Entry

You can supppose that with a dilated pupil, vision would appear increased.

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chalice vine.......the smell is very strong of sweet vanilla.....huge flowers,golden/butter with 4 brown stripes inside.

there is some trick to doing cuttings i dont get yet.....

whats the typo? required 36hours to........?

t s t .

edit -5 brown stripes it should be.

Edited by t st tantra

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the following is taken from The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants: Ethnopharmacology and Its Applications by christian rastch source

(From Ratsch 1994) "Rue, leaves of henbane and thorn apple, dried Solandras and myrrh; these are the odors that are pleasing to Satan, our lord.

WTF were these people into? Satanic worship?

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chalice vine.......the smell is very strong of sweet vanilla.....huge flowers,golden/butter with 4 brown stripes inside.

there is some trick to doing cuttings i dont get yet.....

whats the typo? required 36hours to........?

t s t .

i found some vines growing in someones garden near where i work this winter, got some cuttings & just struck them same as i'd do a brugmansia in a glass of water until they grow a few centremetres of root then plant them in regular potting mix. worked for me 100%

could be a climate thing?

i've noticed christian ratsch can be a bit sloppy with his editing, not sure if thats what the typo is about

edit: also, i think it has 5 brown stripes on the corolla not 4

Edited by xodarap

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also noticed more info from Ratsch's book @ http://www.naturalpedia.com/Solandra_brevicalyx.html

Don ex Lindley (possibly identical to solandra brevicalyx, Furst 1995, 55) Solandra nitida Zucc. [syn. Solandra maxima P.S. Green, Solandra hartwegii N.E. Brown, Swartzia nitida Zucc.J—cutaquatzitziqui, copa de oro To nonbotanists, these four species are difficult if not impossible to distinguish (Morton 1995, 20*). The Indians regard them as equivalent. The following species, which occur in Mexico and are rich in alkaloids (Evans et al. 1972), have not been ethnobotanically described or investigated to date: Solandra grandiflora Sw. Solandra hirsuta Dun. Solandra macrantha Dun.

The Huichol refer to solandra brevicalyx as the "true" kieli, and to Datura innoxia as kielitsha, "bad kieli" (Knab 1977,81). Distribution The genus Solandra is indigenous to Mexico (Schultes and Farnsworth 1982,166*). Most of the species occur in central Mexico. The genus is represented to the south as far as the rain forests of Chiapas (Martinez 1966). Several species have spread into the Caribbean and to South America (Peru) (Furst 1995,51). Cultivation Propagation is easily performed with cuttings.

The fresh leaves (of solandra brevicalyx) can be crushed and administered as an anal suppository or given as a decoction in the form of an enema (Knab 1977, 85). The dried flowers and leaves can be smoked alone or as a part of smoking blends. A medicinal dosage is regarded as the tea prepared from one fresh flower (Yasumoto 1996, 247). In colonial Mexico, Indians used the cup of gold to add zest to their cacao drinks (cf. Theo-broma cacao) (Heffern 1974,101*). Ritual Use The cup of gold is only rarely used as a shamanic trance drug, and the ethnographic reports are correspondingly few.

One of the plants they use has been botanically identified as solandra brevicalyx (Knab 1977, 86). In the mythology of the Huichol, the plant was originally a god: Kieli Tewiali, the god of wind and of magic. At the beginning of the world, he was born of the union of the cosmic serpent and the rain. Later, for the use and the blessing of humankind, he transformed himself into the enchantingly scented plant the "tree of the wind." An entire cycle of myths relates to this theme (Furst and Myerhoff 1966).

Effects The Huichol compare the visions produced by solandra brevicalyx with the effects of Lophophora williamsii but warn against the former because they may frighten a person "to death" (Knab 1977). In Mexico, Solandra nitida Zucc. (Perilla) is regarded as poisonous (Jiu 1966, 256*). A tea made from one flower induced a "toxic psychosis" in an adult, who required thirty-six hours to make The illustration to the left shows the kiele plant {Solandra sp.) on a Huichol yarn painting; the blooming shrubs to the right are from wall paintings at Teotihuacan and may represent Solandra bushes.

Scopolia carniolica Scopolia spp. solandra brevicalyx Solandra guerrerensis Solandra guttata Solandra nitida Solandra spp. Solanum dulcamara Solanum hirtum Solanum nigrum Solanum villosum Solanum spp. Withania somnifera Scrophulariaceae Digitalis purpurea Lancea tibetica Scoparia dulcis Bignoniaceae Tanaecium nocturnum Acanthaceae Justicia pectoralis var. stenophylla Pseuderanthemum sp. Teliostachys lanceolata var. crispa Lentibulariaceae Utricularia minor Valerianaceae Valeriana officinalis Valeriana spp.

Don ex Lindley (possibly identical to solandra brevicalyx, Furst 1995, 55) Solandra nitida Zucc. [syn. Solandra maxima P.S. Green, Solandra hartwegii N.E. Brown, Swartzia nitida Zucc.J—cutaquatzitziqui, copa de oro To nonbotanists, these four species are difficult if not impossible to distinguish (Morton 1995, 20*). The Indians regard them as equivalent. The following species, which occur in Mexico and are rich in alkaloids (Evans et al. 1972), have not been ethnobotanically described or investigated to date: Solandra grandiflora Sw. Solandra hirsuta Dun. Solandra macrantha Dun.

The Huichol refer to solandra brevicalyx as the "true" kieli, and to Datura innoxia as kielitsha, "bad kieli" (Knab 1977,81). Distribution The genus Solandra is indigenous to Mexico (Schultes and Farnsworth 1982,166*). Most of the species occur in central Mexico. The genus is represented to the south as far as the rain forests of Chiapas (Martinez 1966). Several species have spread into the Caribbean and to South America (Peru) (Furst 1995,51). Cultivation Propagation is easily performed with cuttings.

The fresh leaves (of solandra brevicalyx) can be crushed and administered as an anal suppository or given as a decoction in the form of an enema (Knab 1977, 85). The dried flowers and leaves can be smoked alone or as a part of smoking blends. A medicinal dosage is regarded as the tea prepared from one fresh flower (Yasumoto 1996, 247). In colonial Mexico, Indians used the cup of gold to add zest to their cacao drinks (cf. Theo-broma cacao) (Heffern 1974,101*). Ritual Use The cup of gold is only rarely used as a shamanic trance drug, and the ethnographic reports are correspondingly few.

One of the plants they use has been botanically identified as solandra brevicalyx (Knab 1977, 86). In the mythology of the Huichol, the plant was originally a god: Kieli Tewiali, the god of wind and of magic. At the beginning of the world, he was born of the union of the cosmic serpent and the rain. Later, for the use and the blessing of humankind, he transformed himself into the enchantingly scented plant the "tree of the wind." An entire cycle of myths relates to this theme (Furst and Myerhoff 1966).

Effects The Huichol compare the visions produced by solandra brevicalyx with the effects of Lophophora williamsii but warn against the former because they may frighten a person "to death" (Knab 1977). In Mexico, Solandra nitida Zucc. (Perilla) is regarded as poisonous (Jiu 1966, 256*). A tea made from one flower induced a "toxic psychosis" in an adult, who required thirty-six hours to make The illustration to the left shows the kiele plant {Solandra sp.) on a Huichol yarn painting; the blooming shrubs to the right are from wall paintings at Teotihuacan and may represent Solandra bushes.

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I'm guessing your plant is Solandra maxima fma. variegata.

S.maxima and its' variegate AFAIK is the only commonly seen species in Australia.

One thing I don't get is why people in my area always seem to plant Solandra near a fence or their house etc and every time it tries to grow by sending up those vigorous runners they hack it back again and again indefinitely.

WTF I mean what is the point of planting it in the first place?

Cuttings are fairly easy to root too IME here is a method I have had some success with:

Take soft/semi hardwood tip cuttings about 20cms long.

dip in rooting hormone, preferably liquid immediately

pot them into a free draining mix

water & mist spray well and allow to drain

cover with plastic

place on bottom heat source eg. hot water heater etc.

out of direct sunlight.

do this in spring

they should have roots in 2 weeks or less.

I've had them beat some of the easier to root brugs in terms of rooting time

This method i have also used successfully for brug sanguinea tip cuttings and that's saying something cause these are difficult.

Interestingly if you take the Solandra cuttings off the top of the plant with a tiny flower bud attached,

they won't always abort them and can hold onto them in a state of suspended animation until the cutting forms roots at which point bud development proceeds as normal; currently I have a 10cm rooted tip cutting with a full sized flower on top! It looks awesome and about to snap under the weight. :lol:

have fun.

-cul.

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looks to be ......

s guttata and s guttata variagata in hobart

s hirsuta and longiflora in sydney

s maxima in melbourne

s maxima and nitida variegata in adelaide.....though the unvariagated plant is labeled nitida,must be 8 to 10 metres up a morton bay fig!

thanx for the propagation advise ,have found it pretty hit and miss in my cooler climate.....

t s t .

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I got a quick shot on the phone this arv.

The flowers are closed here but still bigger than a tennis ball, openning to about head size!

post-5125-1255521175_thumb.jpg

post-5125-1255521175_thumb.jpg

post-5125-1255521175_thumb.jpg

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bump

just found out i have this in my backyard will get a pic when i can find my camera just woundering if there has been any more tests with this plant?

thanks jwerta

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Known as "Kieli" by the Huichol, it is a very powerful ally plant and is said to be "better" than Datura or other baneful botanicals for entheogenic use.

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looks to be ......

s guttata and s guttata variagata in hobart

s hirsuta and longiflora in sydney

s maxima in melbourne

s maxima and nitida variegata in adelaide.....though the unvariagated plant is labeled nitida,must be 8 to 10 metres up a morton bay fig!

t s t .

 

cool :)

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awsome info here guys would any one happen to know what they call the plant in WA

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