Why you should NOT smoke Salvia divinorum!

[Teotzlcoatl]

That's right! You should NOT smoke Salvia divinorum!

When the traditional shamans learned that Salvia divinorum was smoked they were appalled! They said that this would make the spirit of Salvia very unhappy!

Some people actually speculate that the TRUE active ingredient in Salvia divinorum breaks down into Salvinorin A & B when the plant is dried, therefore most people who have used Salvia divinorum in the Western World have not had a "true" Salvia divinorum experience.

 

 

The leaves needed to be used fresh. SWIM tried storing them in the refrigerator. After 1 day, the effects were a lot weaker and very different.It seems that this plant has an active compound in it that’s very unstable. After just a few hours of being picked, the leaves lost a lot of their potency. However dried leaves were still effective, producing a very different experience though.

The dried leaves were good for smoking, but the effect was not something SWIM really liked much. SWIM did not care for the dried leaves much at all and ended up discarding all the dried leaves and ended up only using freshly picked leaves.

It's my belief that the main active compound in the fresh leaves is oxidizing into salvinorin A, and that this oxidation happens within hours after picking the leaves. Just like an apple begins to turn brown after cutting it open, this compound begins to decompose into salvinorin A.

This is just an idea. I have no evidence to back it up other than the fact that the fresh leaves taken as a quid immediately after picking them are far better than dried leaves. The effect is really nice, stronger, and qualitatively different, more of a true psychedelic similar to mushrooms.

When the natives use Salvia, they use fresh leaves, not dried ones. The leaves are wrapped in banana leaves right after being picked. This is said to help preserve them while in transport to where they'll be used. They are normally used within hours after picking them because the natives also say they rapidly loose potency if stored.

I think there's definitely something going on here worth investigating. How to go about testing such an unstable compound is going to be very tricky though.

So you should NOT smoke Salvia divinorum, but you SHOULD chew the fresh leafs from a live plant as a quid! This the proper and responsible way to use this powerful entheogen! Respect the plant by growing it, and using it in a traditional, proven manner.

Link to Nexus thread

[san p]

sorry mate,but i think ill stick to smoking mine,if the "spirit" is unhappy he hasnt told me about it yet

san p

[Teotzlcoatl]

Read the link.

I'm not against people smoking Salvia divinorum, I just want the people who have smoked Salvia and hated it (like me) to give this amazing plant another look!

[kadakuda]

interesting, but not sure about not smoking. one groups ideals does not exactly fit all....there are so many traditions about doing something "proper" its impossible. listen to them all, and make a decision some people snuff tobacco others eat it others smoke it....and each one probably thinks the other is appalling lol. i like salvia, in small doses, which is why i like smoking cause its not incredibly long.

[mutant]

Typical post which shows why I hate teotz's approach.

That's right! You should NOT smoke Salvia divinorum!

or else what? the spirit is going to be pissed, huh? who the fuck are you to tell what we SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do?

When the traditional shamans learned that Salvia divinorum was smoked they were appalled!

fuck the shamen

They said that this would make the spirit of Salvia very unhappy!

and fuck salvia spirit

=======

interesting link and quotes though.... you are still good at copy-paste, your own approach does not seem to have improved though....

[DayLight]

god you sound full of yourself teotz

just because someone does not use a compound in the same manner as some shamans hundreds of years ago that means they did not have a "true experience"?

the only difference is onset...this is a proven thing teotz, its not some plant spirit getting mad, its the fact that when you ingest something faster it hits harder! and when something hits harder it might be harder for the mind to deal with! not everything has some metaphysical, shamanistic answer. come back down to earth man. its okay down here. there is this transitioning period where after you drop your absurd stories and fables and quaint traditions where you are afraid, but this goes away in time.

you are like the neo-conservatives of entheogens.

Respect the plant by growing it, and using it in a traditional, proven manner.

that same logic could be applied to marriage, deny people their love because you'd rather only have people marry in the traditional and proven manner.

or maybe we should stop drinking alcohol and instead put it into enemas and get drunk with our assholes because thats how the mayans did it.

or maybe we should throw human sacrifices into volcanoes because some island shaman said it was a good idea two hundred years ago.

or maybe teo could just go shove it.

[Thelema]

my intuition is that teotz is channelling in some respect, and his "shoulds" might be regarded as a respectable throwback, without having to agree with them.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Read the freaking Nexus thread, damn.

my intuition is that teotz is channelling in some respect, and his "shoulds" might be regarded as a respectable throwback, without having to agree with them.

Exactly.

[Thelema]

Can we be friends now Teotz?

[Teotzlcoatl]

Were we ever not friends?

Ever member of the Corroboree is my friend, even if I'm not theres.

I love you man.

[Neoshaman]

i met another member of this board who warned me against the smoking of salvia apparently when smoking a very pure extract an entity advised against burning the sacred herb , however now with teotz input it seems that there is more to it then just the plant not liking fire if there is yet some unidentified active maybe most of us are missing the full experience , I mean it happens with many plants if consumed in anyway but fresh khat & Kratom are two of the more common that come to mind

[t st tantra]

by what name do you call this plant ?how traditional is that?is that name over 500 years old or is it part of a new tradition?

do you thank mary and pray to her when you take salvia?or follow an earlier tradition?

t s t .

[paradox]

"Some people actually speculate that the TRUE active ingredient in Salvia divinorum breaks down into Salvinorin A & B when the plant is dried, therefore most people who have used Salvia divinorum in the Western World have not had a "true" Salvia divinorum experience."

yes they speculate with nothing whatsoever to back it up. it's pretty pointless to repeat this no?

"The effect is really nice, stronger, and qualitatively different, more of a true psychedelic similar to mushrooms."

wtf? this guy thinks smoked sal d in not a true psychedelic? i don't even know what to say to that, it's just stupid

"I just want the people who have smoked Salvia and hated it (like me) to give this amazing plant another look!"

teotz i remember reading that you also "hated" your mushroom experience. the very thing that this guy believes is a "true psychedelic"

thats the thing with "true psychedelics" they often will show just exactly what it is you need to see. & when they show you that theres a whole lot going on here & you're too much of an idiot to wake up & realize you're being a fool, it's usually not pleasant. but to me this is the real value of psychedelics, the fact they can show us what we need to see. if we are too dumb to use the lessons we get from them to change our lives then they're probably of no value whatsoever to us.

it does make me wonder what you actually get out of these plants. what is it that makes you so obsessed with them when every experience you've had that i've every read has been that you hated it & haven't seemed to learn anything at all.

there may be something interesting there when it comes to fresh sal d vs smoked, i'm not really one to speculate but quoting some random persons totally un-quantitative ideas off the internets isn't going to make anyone take you seriously

[Teotzlcoatl]

I had one mushroom experience I hated but it was very good for me (I think that is what your trying to get across).

"Hate" is the wrong word for those experiences, they were "unpleasant" at times but I certainly didn't "hate" them, I've learned alot from my bad trips and I think that is what you were trying to say.

there may be something interesting there when it comes to fresh sal d vs smoked, i'm not really one to speculate but quoting some random persons totally un-quantitative ideas off the internets isn't going to make anyone take you seriously

That wasn't just anybody! It was 69ron from the Nexus! Check him out if you have never heard of him!

[SunChaser]

Never been able to produce a bad trip, just gut rot from to much. Kinder sounds like a interesting experience to go though. Guess I've always been perfectly happy to except what they have to say.

It's people that put me in a bad head space, not hallucingens, LOL.

[Torsten]

As usual teotz goes about things the wrong way, but he does have a point and I have said this many times before. The mexicans smoke everything. I mean, if you can mull it up then they've had it in their pipe. So why not salvia? Surely we should not be so arrogant as to completely ignore that they do not smoke salvia EVER! Oh hang, on, we ARE so arrogant.

I am not saying that salvia should not be smoked, but we should be mindful of WHY the mexicans don't smoke it. If you ask the average salvia user, 99 out of 100 times they won't even know that salvia is usually consumed as a quid and even that odd one is unlikely to know that salvia was NEVER smoked traditionally.

This argument becomes particularly important when we look at the potential harm of a substance. Like the silly little restrictions on which part of the kava plants to use or avoid, which when ignored by arrogant westeners ended in deaths, misery, and legal restrictions. We don't know if the mexicans avoided smoking salvia because they didn't like the strange effects or if it was because they noticed some impirical side effects.

The restriction may well have been simply based on the way shaman like to exert control or [which is the most likely scenario] smoked salvia did not resemble a mushroom trip, whereas quid salvia does.

the admin method is also interesting when looking at the healing properties of salvia. I find the smoked experience disturbing, uncomfortable and more of a thrill ride rather than an introspective look at the mind. The quid method produces a trip much more like mushrooms or ayahuasca and is in my personal opinion MUCH more valuable as a shamanic tool.

Salvia consumers should at the very least be aware of the options and differences before making their choice which would be much easier if they were guided by a respected shaman, rather than by their local head shop or youtube.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Wow Torsten, good post!

I think people are missing the point a bit.... I suppose I understand why, maybe I need to reword my opening post.

[Thelema]

Basically, the point is, the point that no-one says, is that burning insults the salvinorin spirit.

That's all there is to this thread. And I agree.

[Teotzlcoatl]

No, the point is... the point is that not only does Salvia divinorum's "spirit" not like to be smoked but I believe there is something pharmacologically at work here, weather it's just the absorption or something else there is a major difference between smoked Salvia divinorum and chewing fresh Salvia divinorum leafs which is important to note.

[Garbage]

Sustained release,or short sharp shock.

The choice is yours.

[incognito]

good points teotz.

i experimented intensively with salvia for a number of years from my mid to late 20's.

to be honest i have never had ANY effect from a quid. not through lack of trying.

a good point to remember for anyone trying the quid method, be sure not to water the leaves for a month or so before consumption.

the leaves hold the salvinorin a on the outsides of the leaves, much akin to how MJ holds its thc. Watering the salvia leaves before consumption will effectively wash alot of the salvinorin a from the leaf.

-please correct me if i am wrong!

[The Jamanoid]

I'm open for trying pretty much whatever methods are available...not about to take it down to what any shaman or whatever would say or think about it, I mean they didn't create the plant, but that said I wouldn't mind checking out how the substance came into origin and try the oldskool method too.

Should be about what works for you, you can have more than one kind of experience per plant, that's just bonus.

[kadakuda]

there is a major difference between smoked Salvia divinorum and chewing fresh Salvia divinorum leafs which is important to note.

that would make sense. the same can be said for many others as well, mj, tobacco, mushrooms (ie smoking dont work) etc. especially when something like fire is involved, its not too hard to imagine a chemical change in something.

[Torsten]

Kadakuda, the difference between smoked salvia and quid salvia is about as distinct as smoked dmt and oral [MAO inhibited] dmt. I think garbage's comment about it being merely a difference of slow vs fast shows his lack of experience with this plant.

Incognito - australian grown material was always much weaker. presumable from being harvested too early. leaves grown in the tropics for a full season and havested just before the wetseason were comparable to hawaiian product. But you don't have to use the quid method to get the oral experience. I have used highly concentrated acetone extracts, or redissolved extracts into ethanol, and even black tar, and all have worked very well. For beginners [overseas] I highly recommend the salvia extract Siebert sells on his website [if he still does].

Jamanoid, your pursuit of simply getting out of it is all well and good, but it leaves you open to damage that we may not know about for many years. I am not saying we should only ever consume these plants the way shaman did. I am saying that when there is such a widespread and total ban on smoking salvia we should think really hard why that might be the case before we chose to ignore it. Like I mentioned, ignoring such old impirical wisdom was what lead to people dying from kava [with the plant rather than the arrogant people who promoted such use getting the blame].

I personally don't buy into the "don't burn the spirit thing". Such rules usually develop out of some other practical basis.

[kadakuda]

the difference between smoked salvia and quid salvia is about as distinct as smoked dmt and oral [MAO inhibited] dmt.

ya, i can totally see that. i wonder though if it works or breaks down when ingested? seems they quid it so if can go through the mouth lining, but what about straight up eating it? once it reaches the stomach acid, does it still have effect? or is all the magic happening before it goes down?