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psychoactive salvia: FOUND!


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#26 friendly

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 08:43 PM

From Pharmacotheon by Jonathan Ott, 1996 Natural Products Co, Kennewick Wa. pg. 389-92:
"The essential oil of commercial sage, normally Salvia officinalis, may contain from 14-67% thujones....In southern Italy, the leaves of S. officinalis may be smoked with the leaves of Datura stramonium as an asthma remedy (De Feo et al, 1992)...S. officinalis, together with S. lyrata was used as a stimulant by North American Cherokee Indians (Hamel and Chiltowsky 1975) while the Hopi Indians made a parallel ludible use of S. carnosa (Whiting 1939)...acute inebriation with absinthe is somewhat similar to cannabis inebriation (Vogt 1981)...
At least 7 Artemisia species were employed as traqditional analgesics by North American Indians, in decoctions for both internal and external use (Moerman 1986)....The Zuni smoked or inhaled steam of A. carruthii to effect analgesia (Stevenson 1915), while the Cheyenne Indians snuffed crushed leaves of A. ludoviciana to treat headaches (Hart 1981; Kindscher 1992) Similarly, the Lahu of Thailand snuff leaves of A. dubia to treat headaches and nosebleed (Anderson 1986b), whereas in Nepal the juice of this plant is placed on the forehead in treatment of Headaches (Joshi & Edington 1990). Some Artemisia species were used traditionally as stimulants, and again the volatile thujones were probably involved. Fumes and leaves of A. frigida were inhaled as a stimlulant by Potawatami Indians (Smith 1933) while Thompson Indians used bruised leaves of A. tridentata as a stimulating inhalant (Steedman 1933)...Artemisia nilagirica leaves are reportedly smoked "for hallucination" by the Oraons of West Bengal state, India (Pal & Jain 1989)..."

#27 Thelema

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 03:59 AM

i hope for my sake that it isnt a false positive.
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#28 Darklight

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 11:28 AM

Nothin' wrong with it if is is Thel, yer methodology seems to be sound.

Most science doesn't work: if they publicised that little known fact I think more ppl would be encouraged to try, rather than assuming if you don't come up with the results you wanted it isn't good science
All the theories in the world won't help if you don't run an experiment. Just do it. And take good notes

#29 Rev

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 04:38 PM

farkin ay!

:D

#30 Guest_electro_*

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 07:32 AM

->That's why many people hate SD.
->I know off a gnome who has half a gram of 6x ---->stashed away for almost 3 years now and can't --->convince himself to use it .

that was what was so good about sd.
it knoced you to the floor, stripped your ego, showed every bad thing inside you and left you looking at it with no euphoria to gloss it over.
Basicly it said " here is what is wrong. you already know this yet you try to hide from it ... fix it or next time i will show you again with more fury".
It didnt teach, more show what needed fixing, that which you knew already within your freaudian unknown self.

Also thelema, how are the trials going ?
Do you still need volunteers ? would you likeanything in return (eg a trade / funding for each individuals consumed material ?)

[ 10. January 2004, 15:32: Message edited by: electro ]

#31 theobromos

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 06:45 PM

There may be some peer pressure here for Thelema to blurt his findings prematurely (note the finely balanced unbiased language here) but I see no reason why he should tell anyone before he has found out everything he wants to. Like - there may be subspecies and varieties of the species that vary in content, type and purity of the actives.

I believe information should be freely available but there are some things I know which I would never talk of.

#32 Thelema

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 06:36 PM

glad you mentioned that electro.
In regards to trade, I do not require any. But I would appreciate it if everyone who receives, to carry on the chain of freeness, and make their next trade, to whomever, to be absolutely free.

Hopefully then we can establish a chain of completely free trading. Some of this is already going on, I for one have no problems giving stuff out for free. In response, over the last year, I have noticed that people are more and more ready to offer me free trades. I think this is great and entirely the attitude we should be cultivating towards each other.

Also, if anyone is interested, I have a backlog of salvia's that need investigating. If anyone is keen to cultivate and bioassay salvias, PM me for some salvias I think are of worthy interest. Thats probably the best trade anyone can give me.
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#33 planthelper

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 03:49 AM

i would like to grow your sage,
i hardly use them,
apart from when realy needed...{mix with sceletium, so not too trippy}!
a legal sally means,
ph could help, with legal extractions,
only for serious research work.
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#34 Thelema

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 12:35 PM

this plant will be entirely legal, even if it does contain salvinorinA.
planthelper, please see my pm to you.
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#35 Adrian

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Posted 06 February 2004 - 01:20 PM

so???

#36 NatureBoy

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Posted 08 February 2004 - 04:13 AM

Thelema,
I'm curious as to what your testing process would involve? because I have some Salvia Guaranitica that is just about to flower and I wouldn't mind conducting some minor tests on it...
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#37 fringle

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 10:03 AM

Hi Thelma,

did you receive any feedback from the people who tested your samples?

#38 sascacheuan

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 05:56 AM

It isnt a salvia, but you are talking about thujones, does anybody know Acantholippia deserticola?.

http://findarticles...._n17190001/pg_2

The major constituents were α-thujone (10.5%) and β-thujone (77.9%).

Its seems so interesting.

#39 aPrinceofLightness

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 06:31 PM

Hi Thelma,

did you receive any feedback from the people who tested your samples?



Hi.

I'm new to this forum, but have tried SageWisdom's Emerald Goddess (luckily, just across the Tasman it's legal!).

Other than the alcohol sting, it was good (for shamanic purposes), but would also be interested if this new found psychoactive salvia does as hoped..

So, Thelema, any news???

#40 Thelema

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:18 PM

sorry guys, this experiment was from over 4 years ago. It was abandoned because I wasnt able to further replicate the single result, even with extractions.
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#41 kenny

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:02 PM

Can you reveal the species in question? now that all the hullabaloo is finished :)

#42 Thelema

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 04:00 AM

It was Salvia Buchananii
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#43 Teljkon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:18 AM

has anyone tried purple vista for activity what a awsome looking salvia!

#44 Teljkon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:03 PM

actually i think its worth a go if its un concured ground. Anyone have any tips on how to acess the toxicity to know its relativly safe.

#45 sandalwood

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:31 PM

well, dont feel too bad about this thelema...

its important that we keep searching and researching.

awhile back I found in data that a certian plant has dopaminergic and kappa opioid and mu opioid agonist activity.

a certian chemist freind with the right equipment set to extracting and isolating the active diterpenoid type compounds that are suspected of some of the activity.

he sent me a large amount of diterpene material, and also a small amount of alkaloid material.

the first time I vaporized the alkaloid material I was knocked on my ass basically. my hands became very sweaty.....I felt a strong stimulation, probably the dopaminergic component of this plant was alkaloid in nature.
but I also felt a slight salvia divinorum like effect. the material was obviously psychoactive.

the raw plant material from which these compounds were extracted is a common medicinal herb.
chaste tree.
swiss research already labeled certian compounds as most likely active.
I think probably the diterpene components are the mildly active opioid agonists.
anyway, the whole extract of this plants berries is highly psychoactive in its own right.
the first time me and my wife took chaste tree extract...we both felt sweaty hands...a feeling of energy, slightly nervous, and a definite suprise that this berry had such strong stimulant effects.
I also found that in the first 40 minutes of the effects there was a slight cannabis like effect, a strange creeping strange psychoactive feeling...similiar in ways to cannabis. I though perhaps this was similiar kappa opioid/dopamine stimulation that THC can cause initially

the alkaloid material was highly interesting.
when the chemist that extracted it first bioassayed the alkaloid, he commented to me that he had an initial effect that reminded him of the start of a salvinorin a trip.
later though they claimed that this compound was not similiar to salvinorin a.

the first few times I vap'd the alkaloid, I had significan psychoactive experiences. strong stimulation. full body electric like effect, sweaty hands and feet.
I also experience movement with my eyes closed, as if shadows were spinning around under my eyelids.
a short experience totaling about 15 minutes.
with a nice euphoric drift off.
all this with only 10-15 milligrams of material being ingested. I even felt amounts as small as 5 milligrams or lower....but mild.

well, the point of the story is that after a few times of vaping that alkaloid material...the effects became much less prominent.
before I knew the potency of the pure compounds, I would feel nervous just trying to handle them. after a few experiences, I find that the alkaloid material seems much less a psychoactive effect, than it has somatic effect.

perhaps the main component of the first psychoactive trial was endogenous opioid release, or some other neurotransmitter, mixed with the obvious psychoactivity of the actives.
the effects became much less prominent.

unfortunately the alkaloid component in chaste tree is low yeild, the milder active diterpene material is much more prolific...though seems not to be the major active compound compared to that alkaloid portion.
I think that some people found out about this, and started adding chaste tree isolates into their smoking blends.

I find that chaste tree is much more active consumed in its whole form it seems that breaking it down and isolating certian compounds.
I have seen a little chaste tree make someone with the flu feel much better.
I have a feeling that its one of the more active components of a certian anti-cold effervescent tablet for the cold/flu season.
the girl I gave some chaste tree to, took it at the end of a day that she was out with the flu. some 30-40 minutes after I gave it to her, she started vacuuming and cleaning at 10 oclock at night!!

it was sort of a letdown.....but still extremely satisfying. I have to thank the chemist that made most of the isolate research possible.
it seems that a little psychoactivity can go a long way when you are experiencing the novelty of exploration.
the initial rush was intense enough that soon after I came out of the experience, I felt like I had discovered something very interesting.
reality was a bit hard when I realized that the alkaloid portion was very low yeild, and after a few experiences, quickly lost its edge. I still get effects from the alkaloid portion I still have left...but I rather save it for new heads to change. everyonce in awhile a freind will be interesed in the experience.

I was so excited about chaste tree initially, that I tried to share my experiences with the whole plant material and the isolates.
I actually met with alot of doubt.
many people didnt think that something interesting was still under their noses, and prolifically avialable in health food stores and on the internet.
some people claimed that I was confusing my psychoactives.

a few years later I found a report in Dale Pendells last book that a tribe in south america worships the chaste tree, along with two other jurema species.
they consider chaste tree 1 of three types of "jurema"
this is a very interesting tidbit to me.
here is a culture that has adopted the use of what I think is a european transplant psychoactive.
and they consider it sacred, alongside one of the most interesting psychoactives on earth, certian mimosa species.

after I read this, it was like a whole new world of possibility opened up for the already amazing chaste tree, is it possible that this semi common spice could effect the pharmakinetics of DMT taken orally?
I dont know personally...but from the report stating that the plant is considered a type of jurema, I think that a chaste tree/jurema bioassay is warranted.

keep up the search. dont be afraid to make some premature posts. it encourages interest.

I also had a similiar experience with pukatea extract. an apparent dopaminergic and very good tasting tree product.
my first few experiences with this extract were very good.
mixed with DXM the experience was borderline potent as a moderate coca experience.
after a few times though, the doses of pukatea that I was taken failed to produce the same effect.
the last time I took that extract I experienced a very strong panic attack situation...and some tight chest feelings....I became tolerant to its psychoactivity, but not its somatic stress production from probably too much low quality dopamine stimulation.

I have high hopes that more psychoactive salvia species will be found out.

some people have thought they found some psychoactive species recently...though after two years of growing different varietys...and testing all plant parts....I failed to recieve even the slightest interesting effects. the claim was major opioid effect, heavy in the mu dept.
but interest in those plants has seemingly died down, after most people failed to find anything interesting with the plant.
talk was that there were inactive variations of the species..but I think maybe partly what happened is other psychoactives consumed within 24 hours of the experiments may have potentiated or produced false positives.
its too bad, because I found a nursery that grows feilds and feilds of this type of salvia...and they were willing to let me trim the tops in the fall for a bit of $$ to produce alot of biomass for extraction.
after the point though, I realized that this is probably not worth my time.
I did write the scientist in Iran that first researched this specific species of salvia...but never heard back from him. there is some opioid effect with at least one variety of this species....there is chemical data that suggests mu opioid agonist activity. but nothing has come from my research of the plant.
the discussion of this salvia plant became pretty heated. people were selling plant materials, and some people were making claims that this plant was already an out in the open, proven psychoactive.

imagine the intensity of the first vaporized salvinorin a trip!!! I dont know if the first isolated salvinorin a bioassay is recorded anywhere...but it sure must have been a heavy revelation.
a substance so powerful that most people misuse the plants power.

I have felt so many wonderful effects, and horrible effects from salvia divinorum. what I find is that the lower doses seem to be more euphoric.
some people just dont get that if the extract is too potent, that the raw leaf might still have very euphoric and interesting effects if used in lower doses.

my experience with salvia officianalis is that it can have ALOT of thujone in it....and also has some somatic effects that wormwood doesnt. be careful with overdosing on salvia o tinctures or
"sagesinthe" as it can really give you some powerful and sometimes toxic effects when consumed in too high of amounts.

the statement that most salvia species are active is a nice thought...but I think its hardly correct.
and out of the hundreds of species known...there is the chance that at least one of them could be very toxic.

#46 t st tantra

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 07:23 AM

interesting and informative post,thanx for sharing it!

t s t .

#47 DayLight

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 11:37 AM

the discussion of this salvia plant became pretty heated. people were selling plant materials, and some people were making claims that this plant was already an out in the open, proven psychoactive.


my bad

lol

#48 Alice

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 12:34 PM

Very interesting sandalwood!

The chaste tree is very easy to strike from cuttings, grows fast, and seems to be very drought tolerant.

And it's very amusing to see visitor and neighbours accusing you of growing cannabis so flagrantly :P

#49 Alice

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 01:54 PM

and a definite suprise that this berry had such strong stimulant effects

so to clarify, the extracts were taken from the berries? or are you just referring to the tree in general (ie berry tree)?

#50 FancyPants

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 02:56 PM

And it's very amusing to see visitor and neighbours accusing you of growing cannabis so flagrantly :P


My uncle who when still living in our house had four large females (cann) growing over the tops of the "courtyard" walls. Our neighbours on that side were Indian. I'll eat your hat if they didn't know what they were. Luckily they left us alone.

Hey there fancy pants play the songs that make us dance.
Play the tunes that make the ladies swoon.
A song for all the lonley hearts, shattered dreams, and broken parts.
It feels like sunny days are comin soon.
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