Solar power

[Chiral]

Just wondering if anyone here as had experience with installing solar power at their place and getting off the grid.

I live a very very simple life and it still never fails to astound me how much my electricity bill is. I actually deposit $30 a week into Energy Australia, so when I get my bill its not so big.

I have actually been living without a fridge for the past year and still my bill is enormous..I have 2 computers, 1 TV, no aircon, 1 small heater rarely used. I run a sound system in my garage that was put together from junk found on the street, and my hot water system is tiny. I have changed all the house lighting to energy saving lamps a year ago when I moved in and still its a big bill. To put it into perspective I still got a bill of $350 and that was with regular deposits..my actual bill was closer to $600.

I'm sick to death of handing money over to these utility companies and not even knowing how or where it is spent. I can never understand the way its calculated or the rates etc.

One day I'm gonna give them such the finger and get off the grid.

Has anyone here had experience with this, I mean installing solar panels and the costs and what to look out for etc...

thanks

H.

[Legba]

Look out for hail? Check http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page. You should find a few ideas there.

[Chiral]

yeah and I thought this was great..although its in states its a great way to DYI.

http://www.earth4energy.com/?hop=muscar3

H.

[reshroomED]

I'm sick to death of handing money over to these utility companies and not even knowing how or where it is spent. I can never understand the way its calculated or the rates etc.

Very expensive to convert to self-powered, better suited to a house designed for such.

The problem would appear to be in your energy supplier's method of billing. It's common for them to pick a 'random' sample of houses, average the bill, and charge this amount to each house in the district. Have a look at the meter in your power-box. It should indicate used power (in KWhrs ie 1000W used for one hour). Take note of the reading and check again in a month's time and compare the difference in the two readings with what you're being charged/month from your supplier.

I'd suggest contacting them with this issue anyway, as if they're not over-charging you in this manner you've a faulty meter or worse.

ed

[Chiral]

I called Energy Australia today and did one of those appliance calucations with a very helpful woman..she even explained to me how to read and check my own meter.

Anyways I was shocked that a simple clock radio in the bedroom can churn up to $21.00 pq...a printer fax machine can churn up to $46 pq... 2 iMacs left on constantly usually going into standby mode when not being used..$126.00 pq..so you can see where the money goes..needless to say the clock radio and printer have been disabled and will become parts for PSY lighting projects in my shed..

H.

[reshroomED]

Anyways I was shocked that a simple clock radio in the bedroom can churn up to $21.00 pq...a printer fax machine can churn up to $46 pq... 2 iMacs left on constantly usually going into standby mode when not being used..$126.00 pq..so you can see where the money goes..needless to say the clock radio and printer have been disabled and will become parts for PSY lighting projects in my shed..

Sounds a bit sus.

Actually, sounds like typical "baffle-you-with-bullshit" sales/help desk advice.

FWIW I just had a squiz at the bottom of my digital clock radio and its rated at 8W (*all* electrical appliances will have a wattage rating on them somewhere).

So:

(8W x 24hrs x 90days)/1000 = 17.28kWhrs

@ approx $0.15c/kWhr = $2.59 for 90days

I'd be checking the wattage on the items that you've mentioned and get the nice lady to explain the discrepency.

Also, wattage ratings on appliances refer to energy used whilst the unit is operating. Anything in standy mode as well as printers, hot-water systems, etc will use far less (should be stated under specifications in user-manual).

ed

[mu!]

hmmm, very interesting & informative thread. nice goin there ED with the calculations too

[saibot]

I have been living off grid for a bit over 2 years now.

We have 300 watt amorphous solar system with 200 amp hours of batteries. The panels are from UNISOLAR and do not contain any glass and very strong.

It is ample to run a small 12v 60 watt compressor fridge during summer. All our devices like computers, mp3 players etc have rechargeable batteries built in . Except for the stereo which is a digital car amp from china (amazing volume for little power) and dsl modem. All the lights are LED which I got from hong kong via ebay. A backup diesel generator is used when it raining for a week or I want play electric guitar with a drummer. The amorphous panels works well enough in over cast days to have power at night. Our house has been built so suit the system.

The whole system has cost a little over $4000 with no help from the federal government as we are to close to power lines for an off grid system. The federal government is not interested in helping people be individually sustainable unless they are very remote.

Once you get used to using power wisely it is no problem. I could even imagine now how easy it would be not to have power at all.

Why not build your own solar hot water system (It a great engineering project and a great way to learn about convection and plumbing) You can also change your routine go to bed early. and be awake for as much of the daylight as possible then you really don't have to use much power at night to light your house. Replace energy efficient fluorescent light with LEDS as they don't require a large spike energy to start thus you can turn them on off regularly when you leave a room.

[reshroomED]

I have been living off grid for a bit over 2 years now.

We have 300 watt amorphous solar system with 200 amp hours of batteries. The panels are from UNISOLAR and do not contain any glass and very strong.

It is ample to run a small 12v 60 watt compressor fridge during summer.

What brand/model batteries, if you don't mind me asking?

I've got two 105Ah's under my bonnet running an Engel 60l fridge/freezer (about 3A max @ 20% duty-cycle, something you may want to look into - I think 'Evakool' produce models with better specs locally, pm me if your interested and I'll chase up the info) and don't like running without a top-up for more than 2 days in mild weather (Victoria). These are hybrid batteries due to starting/winching needs, but even discharging most good deep-cycles below 50% soc will noticeably decrease their life.

Also, what's your general location? If I lived further Nth, I'd definitely have a couple of 80W's on the roof-rack.

ed

[saibot]

The batteries are AGM Deep cycle by power sonic.

We are around the Tropic of Capricorn and have heaps on sun all year round.

Our fridge is Chinese 60L Engel copy bought from ebay as I could not afford an Engel at the time.

We make sure our system cuts off just above 50% of battery. Our fridge cuts in just after dawn cuts out just after sunset so it only consumes power from the panels. This is ok but needs regular cleaning ever 4 days as condensation build up quickly in the base. Cleaning takes about 2-3 minutes so I don't see it as issue.

[kindness]

IMHO getting off the grid depends somewhat on your living situation... you could run a house on bugger all power and get by with a panel or two and a truck battery and a genny - bags of ice for food etc.

Depends I think.

[Chiral]

LOL..Ive been living off bags of ice and an esky for ages..it really is surprising how little you really need in life. People tend too have to many creature comforts around that they don't need..Barring the PC of course.

I have practically everything I need in life and most of it was dumped on the street or picked up for nexta nuttin.

eg: fly screen door on e-bay $1

pushy $10

speakers, amps, cable, furniture, tables, outdoor benches, computers,..the list goes on..all recycled from other peoples throw outs. Around where I am there is an alley and people use it as their personal dumping ground, and its like a shopping centre somedays when I look out there. Yesterday I brought in a beautiful unused fish tank 3'x 2'.. it will make a nice humidy crib for plants/seeds/mushys etc..also a 2 seater couch, a weber BBQ and a really nice coffee table that just needed one leg tightening..its a flipin smorgasbord of waste sometimes..now if only someone would dump solar panels and batteries and some entheogenic plants I'd be set to give the world the "one finger salute".

H.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Hunab Ku

[Siggor]

do you pay quarterly?

[Chiral]

well yes I do ..but I deposit $30 a week into Energy Australia via net bank so as when I get the bill its not so big...why..?

H.

[Siggor]

well yes I do ..but I deposit $30 a week into Energy Australia via net bank so as when I get the bill its not so big...why..?

H.

thats alot of energy.

there are 3 people in my family, we probably have nearly one of every appliance, lights that get left on over night, appliances that are left on stand by, a clothes dryer that get used more than once a day and we still only pay about 200-300 quartly, either you are running something that you shouldn't be or somebody has tapped into your source.

[kindness]

i lived in a house once where we received ridiculous electricity bills for the amount of lights and appliances we had... we called the elec company up to try and work out what was happening, aparently a faulty appliance can cause bills to go a bit nuts - so we worked out what thing it was by watching the power meter and plugging things in... the wheel that spins started to go mad when we plugged in a heater we had. Once we stopped using that things went back to normal.

It wasn't just that it was a heater but that in someway it was faulty - although it appeared to work ok.

anyhow.

peace

[reshroomED]

It wasn't just that it was a heater but that in someway it was faulty - although it appeared to work ok.

This was why I suggested looking further into this.

HK if your energy-supplier isn't gyping you, and the meter's OK, you have a *serious* electrical fault that is *very* likely to turn into an electrical fire.

I'd strongly suggest trying to get your power company to send someone out.

If that won't float, maybe a local sparky (couldn't even say roughly what they'd charge but it's a relatively easy/quik job - get a quote).

Or buy yourself a cheap AC clamp ammeter and check yourself. Should be able to pick one up for around $25 these days I'd reckon.

ed

[Chiral]

Yeah this week I'm gonna try the turn everything off tek, and then plug in one thing at a time..see if I can find a faulty device..I've done a very complete walk around of all the devices in my place and can't really pin point in my mind if or what it might be. Will be interesting though, I'll post the results sometime next week.

thanks for the great info though guys..its been an interesting little journey this one and still a riddle is to be solved.

H.

[cycle]

Just an aside. Devices on "standby" still draw power, TVs, dvds, stereos, etc. If you have a lot of them "on" all the time it can add up. Some people even say that chargers, like mobile phone etc, left plugged in can draw power even when the wall switch is off! (warm to the touch? = power draw).

But yeah, your process of elimination should work the best. Hope you figure it out!

[Statakak]

Yeah Hanab Ku I'm thinking:

Setting up a solar system (umm solar electrical not a sun and planets ect) is very expensive (solar panels, battery's, inverter and installation) and produce surprisingly little power (especially it you don't get a full sun all day on your roof).

The battery's seldom last beyond 10 years, and that is if you realy look after them and don't let them get below 80% charge.

Solar panels don't last much longer, so it's not really a one off payment to get power independence.

I would blame your hot water system for your power delema

Being small probably doesn't make it more efficient. It may not hold heat as long so it may be turning on and off more regularly, or if it is old it may even be stuck on (thermostat problem).

I think that even if you do want to change to solar or just save power the first step would be to get a solar hot water system ( I'm certain that a standard solar setup would be incapable of running an electrical hot water system along with normal household stuff).

If you have CRT monitors on your computers you could save some power by getting LCD ones, their getting quite cheep now.

But yeah I would go the solar hot water as a first best step (I'm sure that there is still government rebaits for them as well)

Good luck on your quest Hanab Ku

[reshroomED]

Some people even say that chargers, like mobile phone etc, left plugged in can draw power even when the wall switch is off! (warm to the touch? = power draw).

Nothing will use power if the wall-switch is off.

Some devices will use power when the wall-switch is on, but they're turned off (and it's got me buggered why you'd design something this way unless you sold replacement power-supplies on the side), notably charging devices, as stated, which have no local on/off switch. Power usage at such levels is usually minimal and can be discounted for the purposes of tracking down excessive energy-draw (it's more an item-lifetime issue, being constantly powered makes the devices internal power-supply fail far earlier).

ed

[reshroomED]

We make sure our system cuts off just above 50% of battery. Our fridge cuts in just after dawn cuts out just after sunset so it only consumes power from the panels. This is ok but needs regular cleaning ever 4 days as condensation build up quickly in the base. Cleaning takes about 2-3 minutes so I don't see it as issue.

This is not very safe health-wise, and not that energy saving either.

At night, with a lower ambient temperature and not being opened, your fridge's compressor will cycle far less frequently whilst still maintaing a safe food-storage temp.

Conversely, turning it off will not save all that much (as it wouldn't have been running as often as during the day) yet will allow the food to get to above optimum storage temp. Then when it turns back on at sun-hits-the-panels, it must run harder/longer to catch up the temp it lost overnight. Your food ends up fluctuating between cold and cool and this is not good for food for human consumption

ed

[saibot]

Ed thanks for your concerns this something I have thought about in this depth for a while. We only use the fridge for vegetables and only over summer. We live for 8 months of the year with it turned off. I do Not store any meats, dairy products or heat volatile foods. I have a fresh is best , at room temperature attitude. If I want fish I can go fishing or if I want some meat I buy from the butchers and only catch or buy as much as we need for the next meal. So I really think it depends on what you use the fridge for, for us its more of a cool room to prolong the shelf life of garden vegetables for 2 - 3 days max when its really hot. I understand that fridge works harder in the morning to get the temperature down and I am expending the life of the fridge for the life of the batteries. seems to be a similar economic trade off. From my experiments using our system this works the best and we have spare power for when there is little sun. Really we would need more panels and batteries to run the fridge full time and have the same amount of power we consume for other devices.