TheFriendlyPlanter Posted August 2, 2008 Would there be any species so closely related that there may be a possibility of fertile F1s? Prolly not hey... If it's a cultigen and all, is it even clear where the species originated from. -Cheers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted August 2, 2008 i remeber a post from auxin which gave a list of possible salvia plant for this venture, so try the search engine, or let's hope auxin chimes in again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conan Troutman Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) you'd think someone might have found where she came from by now hey... Salvia d: subgenus calosphace, section dusenostachys. there is a list of Salvia sp. chromosomes somewhere Edited August 3, 2008 by Conan Troutman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFriendlyPlanter Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks Auxin! "S. divinorum is a 2n=22 diploid so if someone were to attempt cross-pollinations they would want to use other salvias with the same number of chromosomes. Among them are: aethiopsis aetiopis argentea beckeri broussonetii canariensis candidissima canescens ceratophylla chloroleuca chrysophylla cilicica coccinea crassifolia daghestanica fluviatilis fominii frigida gravida hidalgensis hypoleuca jurisicii leucantha limbata linczevskii longispicata lupulina mexicana microphylla monbretii moorcroftiana nutans phlomoides polystachya purpurea querceto-pinorum rhytidea sahandica sclarea sessei syriaca tiliifolia tmolea urica coccinea and sclerea are likely the easiest of those to find. Narrowing by geographical proximity should increase chances- ie. start with any in that list from central america or upper south america, preferably with similarities in morphology- ie try to find its cousin. Additionally if one were to produce a S. divinorum tetraploid (be careful, colchicine is a powerful poison) then it would have 44 chromosomes and may be able to cross with 2n=44 salvias like S. splendens. I dont have a list of 2n=44 species in my notes lol, so heres the chromosome count database: Link In theory if an interspecific hybrid were created that seeded freely and made viable seed it could be back-crossed with divinorum several times to make a nearly-divinorum that can freely seed out." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MORG Posted August 5, 2008 If you're attempting an intrageneric cross with this baby then you want to consider this paper, the most current Salvia phylogeny available. The findings of a polyphyletic composition of the genus is important and to maximise your chances of a fertile cross I'd say you'd want to concentrate your efforts on sister species in the "Salvia Clade II" (see figure 6). I don't know anything about the availability, biogeography, pollination biology or karyology of those species in the same proposed clade which obviously impacts on the suitability of a candidate for hybridisation. See attached file. JAY B. WALKER, KENNETH J. SYTSMA, JENS TREUTLEIN, AND MICHAEL WINK SALVIA (LAMIACEAE) IS NOT MONOPHYLETIC: IMPLICATIONS FOR THE SYSTEMATICS, RADIATION, AND ECOLOGICAL SPECIALIZATIONS OF SALVIA AND TRIBE MENTHEAE American Journal of Botany 91(7): 1115–1125. 2004 Salvia_phylogeny.pdf Salvia_phylogeny.pdf Salvia_phylogeny.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted August 5, 2008 Excellent, I've been looking for that paper! Thanks Not only does it look helpful in unraveling divinorum but it may also provide clues to other active species. S. spathacea and S. dorrii are both reported as active and both in the same subgroup... along with S. brandegei and S. pachyphylla which I've never seen reported in a bioassay, I dont suppose anyone has those? I really need to get another divinorum soon, might not be too long left for me to research it before its banned Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFriendlyPlanter Posted August 5, 2008 Great paper Morg thanx! Do It Auxin! while you still can. If successful fertilization is limited simply due to the effects of inbreeding, it should only take one good cross to get it back up and fertile again, such hybrids could also add the benefits of heterosis. I'm thinking 12 ft monsters that grow in full sun here. C'mon Auxin! You the man Baby! Hey while we're talking Salvias, check out this nice lady's pics. What a nice friendly lady she must be... http://www.flickr.com/photos/salvias/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFriendlyPlanter Posted August 6, 2008 well waddaya know...BlackKnight! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
