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#26 Zakmalados

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 04:54 AM

Funny thing, in Canada:

Mescaline is illegal, but Peyote... is specifically exempted from scheduling.

We have legislation like that in AU to the effect that anything containing a drug, is a drug... but it has not seen much enforcement (so far, mostly in re: mushrooms... which are illegal because they contain a drug).

Given that Peyote is specifically exempt... I don't know what this means for the tricho's and similar spp.

It seems like cognitive liberty is... suffering in AU. That's so sad.

Zak

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#27 rahli

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 12:40 PM

Funny thing, in Canada:

Mescaline is illegal, but Peyote... is specifically exempted from scheduling.

We have legislation like that in AU to the effect that anything containing a drug, is a drug... but it has not seen much enforcement (so far, mostly in re: mushrooms... which are illegal because they contain a drug).

Given that Peyote is specifically exempt... I don't know what this means for the tricho's and similar spp.

It seems like cognitive liberty is... suffering in AU. That's so sad.

Zak

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Rigths of the NAC in Canada may have something to do with this decision (?)

Edited by rahli, 04 June 2008 - 12:40 PM.

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#28 woof woof woof

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 02:39 AM

dear aussy friends and fiends! hehehehe.... bmmer to hear that it is now prohibithed to grow Lophops.... better go into the deserts and plant your babies there.... then once evey few years go out on a camping trip :-)

#29 Zakmalados

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 03:59 AM

Rigths of the NAC in Canada may have something to do with this decision (?)



No, that's US. There... get this.. the Indian people have an exemption. Still they're persecuted...

But here, right now... it's not like that.

I'm just praying and hanging on.

Zak

#30 rahli

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 08:55 AM

"Anthony Davis, is also known as White Thunder, is an 83-years-old Pawnee Road Chief and President of the Native American Church of the U. S. in Texas. Anthony, a long-time member of the Church, says (pers. Comm.) that the annual demand by all branches of the Native American Church in the U.S. and in Canada for peyote"buttons" is 5-10 million."

The "Peyote Gardens" of South Texas.

Edited by rahli, 01 July 2008 - 08:56 AM.

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#31 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:58 AM

Peyote WILL be completely extinct in the U.S.A. by 2020 I believe.

It will however, continue to thrive in Mexico...

Any person who wishs to do Lophophora "Peyote" should first cultivate/propagate it for a number of years, harvesting it from the wild for cultivation is bad, but destroying it soley for ingestion is down-right sinful if you ask me. Yes even for Native Americans, it's not like many of them actually live in peyotes natural range.... fuckin' Cananda does not have any native peyote!

Edited by Teotz', 01 July 2008 - 11:29 AM.

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#32 -YT-

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 11:18 AM

"harvesting it from the wild for cultivation is bad, but destroying it soley for ingestion is down-right sinful if you ask me. Yes even for Native Americans, it's not like many of them actually live in peyotes natural range.... fuckin' Cananda does not have any native peyote!"


Do you understand the dynamics of the Peyote church or read into it at all...? have you read into the history of the native peoples in your own country? if so then you would understand why none of these people live in peyotes natural range anymore... even more so you would understand alot of tribes actually travelled far to collect and hold ceremonies, indeed canada doesnt have peyote but maybe the peoples developed intricate trade relationships with others further south as with such trading it reveals a larger web of realtionships and dynamic understanding of place and being of understanding others from different places/lands.
To Those who did not invent gunpowder nor the compass,
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To those who shall survive in shoots of grass!

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#33 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 11:31 AM

Nobody lives where their geographical ancestors did (almost nobody).

We are all humans of Earth, nothing more, we all have equal rights to ingest mother nature's botanicals, and I believe, even if your skin is darker than mine, that eatting Peyote to extinction is just plain wrong.

It seems that all these Native Americans that consume 2 million buttons a year (HOLY SHIT!) do very little (completely no?) growing of Lophophra, they just go and buy them, and leave the cultivation (and preservation) of their beloved cactus to other people.

That's some BULLSHIT!

Edited by Teotz', 01 July 2008 - 11:34 AM.

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#34 2b

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 12:31 PM

I once saw a documentary on one of these funky peyote churchs in the US. This mob grew all there own peyote, they showed footage of thier property and they had a huge amount growing in plastic pots. As for eating them to extinction , it's just plain stupid.
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#35 rahli

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 04:32 PM

"Although peyote does not grow naturally in Canada, native tribes in Alberta and Saskatchewan had been importing peyote buttons from Arizona and other arid locales in the American Southwest, and using them in peyote ceremonies, for at least a few hundred years. Some believe peyote has been imported into Canada for thousands of years. Federal officials were sympathetic to the peyotists' plea not to ban their sacred plant, and so decided to only ban the extracted active ingredient, mescaline."

"Internal government memos obtained by Cannabis Canada reveal that the bureaucrats considered banning peyote, but with a special exemption for religious users only. This was the route taken in the US, where only Native American members of the Native American Church are permitted peyote. However, the bureaucracy felt that this would create a legal precedent for religious use of other plants, like marijuana and mushrooms."


Grandfather peyote

Edited by rahli, 01 July 2008 - 04:36 PM.

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#36 Teotzlcoatl

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 03:40 AM

Ya and my forefathers were stealin' land and raping women 100 years ago, I guess I should continue my tradtional as well.

Eating wild peyote is just plain wrong, so would hunting buffalo to extinction, etc., etc. I don't care how long they've been doing it.

This world is all of ours now, we are no longer isloated islands of humans dotting the Earth, we are one, we are no longer just groups humans, we are humanity.
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#37 Garbage

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 07:47 AM

Mine apparently stole a horse and was transported.another was implicated in a murder with a fencepost and was transported.

One of which became an early aussie copper.

#38 -YT-

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 11:20 AM

OK teotz stop trolling man its a waste of fucken space eh and what is BULLSHIT is making fabricated statements if your going to post stupid shit can you atleast referenece or link where you get the info...


"It seems that all these Native Americans that consume 2 million buttons a year (HOLY SHIT!) do very little (completely no?) growing of Lophophra, they just go and buy them, and leave the cultivation (and preservation) of their beloved cactus to other people."


Like are you completely stupid ??? Almost all the peyote churches grow large quantities of peyote for use and to be planted back out, now the reason so much is lost is beacause of fucken midless hippies seems like you could easily be one who thought hey im a human i have as much right to rape peyote lets do it.. now this is in the period of 50's -70s. also a factor could be that in some states is illegal to posses/cultivate...
far from indians eating 2million buttons id like to see a reference or statistics to back this up?

"Eating wild peyote is just plain wrong, so would hunting buffalo to extinction, etc., etc. I don't care how long they've been doing it."

Are you Racist or something? i thought we were all humans? so why the degrogatory "they" are they less then you or something?

And as for the buffalo becoming extinct wouldnt have anything to do with the American Government paying colonistis soldiers etc to go out and kill all the buffalo they came acroos on the plains as to starve the indians out and take their land ..... or so that these same colonistis could make $3 a skin.... lol you should try researching stuff helps a world.


And yeah we are humanity the same one who kills rapes and steals in the name of God or the state or any other justification for destroying others its called history dude

Edited by -YT-, 02 July 2008 - 11:21 AM.

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#39 stiched up

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 05:33 PM

yeah what he said...........................WORD
blood thirsty cadvre junkie

#40 rahli

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 07:31 PM

For anyone thats wants to read up more on the history of the Native American church Peyote harvest.

Attached File  Human_Peyote_interations_in_South_Texas.pdf   1.02MB   30 downloads

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#41 trucha

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 08:23 AM

I would suggest that three things are simply not true:
1) Peyote is going to go extinct
2) Lots of NAC people grow peyote
3) Lots of peyote is grown by the NAC.


Some statements that are true:
Well over 90% of the Peyote Gardens in Texas has been cleared or converted to other use (ie no more peyote grows there).
Peyote is intensely threatened almost anywhere harvests can occur.
Some populations such as El Huisache are so huge they are still healthy despite intensive predation.
Peyote is absolutely thriving anywhere that intact (ie nonrootplowed) land exists and where harvesting is not permitted. Interestingly it presently seems to have the most protected future in the wild in instances where land is owned by people who do not eat peyote but love it as a living plant. (There is a fascinating bit of irony there?)
Peyoteros cannot access all peyote populations.
Peyoteros harvesting from the wild are the only legally recognized source of sacrament for the NAC in the US. (It seems likely that some is smuggled in from Mexico due to the numbers that are involved. However no real numbers can exist at the moment as no one presently has anything resembling a solid number on the total membership of the NAC. A couple of figures of unclear origin get tossed around but the reality is there is no central organization or membership roster capable of generating a number. The NAC is not an organization but an affiliation of a bunch of interactive but separate NAC chapters each with their own charter and by laws and membership. Whether we were to assume that the original figure of 250,000 or the more recent one of 400,000 is accurate the present harvest would provide only a handful of buttons, more or less, per person per year. Even without access to more accurate information, 5 million buttons per year sounds like it could well be a plausibly realistic need?)
Peyoteros are forbidden by the DPS to cultivate.
Peyoteros get paid the same per button regardless of size. They often reharvest individual plants every second year.
There has never been a year with a reported harvest anywhere near 5 million buttons.
Annual harvest has largely been between 1.5 and 2 million buttons in recent years (legal reported harvest). Records are kept by the Texas department of public safety. These records are available to the public. The webpage that's URL is below shows them in graphical form.
The only legally respected channel for peyote for NAC chapters is to purchase them through authorized peyoteros who maintain records of their sales.
All legal peyote harvests are done from the wild by three remaining peyoteros and their hirelings (usually younger relatives)
All peyoteros are Catholics rather than NAC members.
Despite the law implying cultivation should be permitted there are no specific provisions in the law permitting it. Hence the complications. Or at least a small part of them.
Much, perhaps most, of the NAC currently denounces cultivation as lacking faith in the peyote. This shows encouraging signs of not being the whole picture.
Some of the NAC is thinking more sustainably - one chapter is presently interacting with the DEA to determine what will be required to permit them to grow their own. No cultivation guidelines exist at the moment so any NAC group attempting it would risk operating outside of the law. The NAC does not even have uniform protection for transportation of peyote across many state lines despite being required to go to Texas to purchase sacrament.
People are probably confusing the Peyote Foundation with the NAC. They were active cultivators and Leo was featured in a number of publicity exposures including an article in High Times referring to him as the Peyote King. Arguably not the best of publicity.
I'd love to know more details on what was seen and where. There is another exception that may have found some documentary coverage as well but it seems unwise to state their names in this forum.
The cultivation issue has a very complex larger picture despite how obvious the need would appear to be for the NAC.


Assorted articles and photos at www.cactusconservation.org can better educate people who have interest.


If I am in error on anything I said above please let me know and point me to some sort of source material. Thanks!

Edited by trucha, 13 August 2008 - 02:51 PM.


#42 FancyPants

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 03:59 PM

The coolest fortune cookie I ever read stated- "A society which creates laws creates criminals".


I mean how many of you actually eat peyote?!

Probably very few!


So because I haven't eaten mescaline (...) I shouldn't care that I might not ever get a chance to or to simply defy an arbitrary law conspired by rich political beaurocrats for their own agenda?

Ya and my forefathers were stealin' land and raping women 100 years ago, I guess I should continue my tradtional as well.

Eating wild peyote is just plain wrong, so would hunting buffalo to extinction, etc., etc. I don't care how long they've been doing it.

This world is all of ours now, we are no longer isloated islands of humans dotting the Earth, we are one, we are no longer just groups humans, we are humanity.


The NAC people would have been able to collect wild peyote with deference to the risk of overharvesting. All native peoples surviving off their land know this; they know the land far better than the vast majority of the colonial immigrants.

Mine apparently stole a horse and was transported.another was implicated in a murder with a fencepost and was transported.

One of which became an early aussie copper.


Hah one of my decendants was an Irish convict who later became one of the original Sydney coppers too, maybe it's the same guy? Doubtful but ya never know... my rello's name was Thomas Dunn. I think it was Thomas anyway...

Unfortunately the quality of medical professionals in Australia these days is not what it should be.


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Play the tunes that make the ladies swoon.
A song for all the lonley hearts, shattered dreams, and broken parts.
It feels like sunny days are comin soon.
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#43 Chiral

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 02:46 PM

It looks like they are slowly adding all of Australia to the list. What parts of AU are Loph still legal to cultivate in?



Hold your breath NSW ..it won't be long before the NSW gov't ..er I mean herd of sheep follows..what a pitiful sad capitalistic shallow world we are currently living in.
A person who leads a very quite simple life in tune with nature and who never intentionally does any harm to another human being or animal, suddenly finds themselves committing a crime.
Who are these people that have the right to police my mind and body and assume they know whats best for me.
What happens if they discover that kangaroo meat has an unknown enzyme that is psychoactive or when the gum tree is found to have a psychoactive alkaloid present..it goes on and on.

Just plain stupid..I shake my head and once more retreat into the shadows with my potting mix and camera.

Lets hope the plant kingdoms spirits over power us all, and take back this planet from the desease we are becoming.

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#44 cactidan

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 10:41 AM

http://www.peyoteway.org/ We are all people to how is your religious rights in AU.join the church

#45 PD.

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 08:56 PM

*BUMP*


Also as the drug law in QLD is worded such that plants that contain illegal substances are therefore illegal and as Torsten will attest this has been enforced I will not allow discussion on potency of any mescaline bearing cacti, nor on methods to increase potency, or for that matter any questions on injestion of such substances. There is one exception and that is the linking to or discussion of scientific literature on the subject. We are treading a fine line and as all this information exists on this website and others where people can easily search for it I see discussion of it as a mute point.


Discussion on Lophs and trichs is fine, so is cultivation, photos, collections etc I just wont take any discussion on potency, preparation or injestion of any mescaline bearing cacti.



Take note peolpe!!!

#46 Chiral

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 09:08 PM

Thanks.

H.

#47 mac

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 01:24 AM

EDIT found the info i was looking for


It looks like they are slowly adding all of Australia to the list. What parts of AU are Loph still legal to cultivate in?




Hold your breath NSW ..it won't be long before the NSW gov't ..er I mean herd of sheep follows..what a pitiful sad capitalistic shallow world we are currently living in.


better go into the deserts and plant your babies there.... then once evey few years go out on a camping trip :-)


If it ever comes to NSW jumping on the BANdwagon (pun intended)
Ill be setting a nice little population free in a perfect place, im sure other like minded people also intended to preserve a wild population here in this little island of democracy we call OZ :scratchhead:

just follow the yellow brick road

Edited by mac, 11 March 2009 - 07:14 AM.

ψυχή ναύτης

#48 herbal_hindsight

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 01:57 AM

Hello all! I am from SA and just read any plant containing MESCALINE including any plant of the genus Lophophora is illegal to cultivate here!!!

How much truth is there to this?

I have a lot of trichs and a few others in my collection but want to sell a lot of them as I need the $ and don't have the space as I will be turning nomadic in the new few months....

This is an outrage as I know you will all agree!
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#49 Arieon

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 02:28 PM

These funny little men, that think they have "power" over what people are and are not allowed to grow really do humour me. Even if it becomes time and these little green men take away all of the general publics "rights" it's either going to be hellish, or subtle and subdued. Either way i will be setting my ship up and sailing away with all my precious wonders.

And laughing at these little men with top hats and waving as i sail away !!

Ariel

Edited by Arieon, 17 July 2009 - 02:28 PM.


#50 Hendry

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 08:34 PM

Are there any places in Australia that sell lophophora cacti anymore? Just noticed that I couldn't seem to find them offered on SAB (just the seeds).


Have our innocent horticultural pursuits been cockblocked yet again by the goodie goodie lets Ban everything fun in Australia crew. Say it ain't so.


The government should trust the people, The people should not trust the government!