Entheobotanical bonsai

[Auxin]

During my normal pre-spring seed sorting I realized that I have collected seed to several bush and tree species that cant survive outdoors here, so I'm pondering reviving an old plan of mine to develop a collection of bonsai of entheological, and possibly general ethnobotanical, interest. Oddly though, searches of here and google give me the feeling that psychoactive bonsai growing/collecting is a non-existant hobby. No psychotria viridis bonsai, no mimosa hostilis or scabrella, no anadenanthera, no kratom, very few DMT bearing acacia bonsai and all of them seemingly owned by 'straight' people, no damiana bonsai, etc.

Whats the deal? Am I just using bad search terms or does no one do this?

I am aware that over 90% of people who want to grow a psychadelic plant want to grow it to harvestable size and not grow it as a pure ornamental, especially when it would take in excess of 5 years to get it to a presentable form- but surely Someone does this, yes?

Sofar Acacia longifolia is the closest I've found.

[Ace]

I used to have a bit of interest in bonsai, but the general type of plants in the ethno-world seem to be bushes or other smaller plants, whereas bonsai usually incorporates trees. Indeed, acacias and the like could be used, but I'm not really aware of many other tree-ethnos - are there many?

This thread has got me kind of interested in starting a couple Acacia bonsais - I have maidenii and obtusifolia seed - perhaps I could give it a shot over the next couple years...

Has anyone actually tried bonsai-ing an ethno in this community? You could easily pseudo-bonsai (or pop-bonsai) small bushes and others, but they wouldnt be true to the original bonsai art.

I have heard of cannabis bonsai mother plants, from which cuttings are taken regularly. They have lived for about 5 years before losing vigour. Each year, they were root trimmed, and are kept in smaller pots. Would be great to see stuff like this with others, even if they arent true-to-form.

[ENtiTY]

That acacia looks very nice!

I've got a few wee ones coming along, maybe its time to return to the interests of my younger years...

Quite a treasure an old, true to form bonsai. Like an old friend.

[transDiMenTional]

that longifolia is awesome!

[Conan Troutman]

Here is a recent attempt of mine too bonsai and caudiciform a D.bosseranum,

might also be a novel way of improving root production.

[KlUe]

Looks good CT, nice work!

Here is a recent attempt of mine too bonsai and caudiciform a D.bosseranum,

might also be a novel way of improving root production.

[Auxin]

You could easily pseudo-bonsai (or pop-bonsai) small bushes and others, but they wouldnt be true to the original bonsai art.

Small bushes and shrubs have been used in 'genuine' bonsai for a long time. Junipers being a fine example.

Anyway bonsai can be great in non-traditional form, Mr. Miyagi wont be grading them , the above A. longifolia is a example of a very attractive non-traditional bonsai form (in traditional bonsai either the leaves must be dwarfed or it must be made to look like another tree to which its leaf size would be to scale on the miniaturized tree.)

CT, thats interesting. Are you going to try to dwarf the leaves at all?

I have one that almost looks like that simply because I didnt plant it deep enough and tend to surface water it might be a good candidate for some training.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Auxin

[tonic]

This sounds like a good idea, as I am a bonsai enthusiast myself. I think a few points should be raised though.

1 being that some Acacia sp. are quite suitable for bonsai, lots of them are fairly short lived and this diverts from traditionalist bonsai culture in that the trees selected for bonsai cultivation are usually very large and long living trees in nature. Most Acacia sp. don't develop interesting bark structure, for example they usually don't develop corky or gnarled bark with age which is desirable in bonsai. Although Acacia melanoxylon Blackwood [which does spring to mind] is a more long lived species which can develop interesting bark and does purportedly contain DMT, would probably be a good choice.

2 I would'nt have thought Psychotria viridis to be a great species for bonsai as it is know to be a bit touchy.

3 plants with bipinnate foliage are traditionally not used for bonsai as they are hard to create an image of age with, fern like leaves etc. which would include Mimosa and Anadenanthera.

4 bonsai generally don't like being kept indoors.

That said, there would definately be some good plants to use, Kratom looks like it has potential. I think some Doryphora sp. would also be worth trying.

If I can find any info or think of any other potentials will post them back here.

Thats a wicked caudiciform you have there troutman that could definately be turned into a decent bonsai with time.

Edited March 8, 2007 by tonic

[Conan Troutman]

That is my first and only attempt at such a thing...

Im not sure how the plant will dwarf if at all? only time will tell i guess...

my main focus was the forming of the caudex

other ethno plants that im aware will form a caudex are:

Impomea carnea

Erythrina

Mirabilis jalapa

[tonic]

Some Erythrina sp. would probably also make a decent bonsai, I agree troutman.

[Conan Troutman]

Some Erythrina sp. would probably also make a decent bonsai, I agree troutman.

Ipomoea platense

http://www.logees.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R9104-2

[tonic]

Ipomoea platense

Some potential with that one too

[Coschi]

Bonsai Brugmansia!!! Bonsai Brugmansia!!!!!!!!!

DO IT!!! DO IT!!!

Or maybe I wil!!

[AndyAmine.]

I read that the aussie grower KOG grew a bonzi MJ plant to harvest while serving time in gaol!

Classic... youve got to admire that guy and his attitude towards to cops and gaol..

[Ace]

Bonsai Brugmansia!!! Bonsai Brugmansia!!!!!!!!!

That would be sweet - but unfortunately the rather large leaves would make the task rather difficult. Generally, you want to select a plant with fairly small leaves, and they tend to shink a little more over time with training. Large leaves just dont do it - but perhaps you could miniaturise it a little by putting it in a shallow-ish pot and keeping it really well pruned? Perhaps it might shrink a bit - it would be awesome to see tiny brug trumpets eh!

[Hagakure]

yeah i have read and heard about bonsai MJ plants.

you end up with one big finely crafted nugget

[tonic]

Here is a little bit of eye candy considering we are discussing bonsai, not ethnobotanical in any way but you get that

This is one of my Juniperus prostrata 'nana' s [prostrate Juniper] I've been training for a few years now.

Edited March 8, 2007 by tonic

[Auxin]

I remember reading a paper about 4 or 5% ethanol being used to cause mild dwarfism of plants, I believe the purpose of the research project was to make some flowers easier to grow indoors but that might be applicable to bonsai. In bonsai one shortcut I heard was to denude the plant of leaves and the new leaves that grow in will be naturally smaller... get the plant drunk on 5% ethanol, after a few days strip the leaves, keep it tipsy for a few weeks... could work.

Try it on something expendable first

Also, maby frequent dosing of the seedling/young plant with an antigibberellin would give it a compact gnarled trunk.

If making a 15 cm tall Acacia bonsai its not like it will ever be boiled up into acacahuasca or anything so theres no major need to stay 100% organic

[Auxin]

not ethnobotanical in any way

Nice one

And it most certainly is an ethnobotanical, just not entheological as far as I know.

(Some north american tribes use it as a medicine... one example being a tea of the leaves for coughs. I think it also prevents scurvy and does some other stuff)

[tonic]

I remember reading a paper about 4 or 5% ethanol being used to cause mild dwarfism of plants, I believe the purpose of the research project was to make some flowers easier to grow indoors but that might be applicable to bonsai. In bonsai one shortcut I heard was to denude the plant of leaves and the new leaves that grow in will be naturally smaller... get the plant drunk on 5% ethanol, after a few days strip the leaves, keep it tipsy for a few weeks... could work.

Try it on something expendable first

Also, maby frequent dosing of the seedling/young plant with an antigibberellin would give it a compact gnarled trunk.

If making a 15 cm tall Acacia bonsai its not like it will ever be boiled up into acacahuasca or anything so theres no major need to stay 100% organic

Sounds like a real pain in the arse to me.

When you remove the leaves, yes sure they grow back smaller for a while, but then the process has to be repeated all over again during the growing season. You can't actually change the plant completly by cutting it's leaves, bonsai need very regular care and maintenance, that's why they look the way they do.

[Auxin]

Isnt it all the challenge and care that makes it rewarding? If you could just spray a seedling with an enzyme to make it grow up as a bonsai they wouldnt be nearly as impressive.

Seeing as how youve been training yours for a few years I'm sure you can agree.

[Conan Troutman]

I dont know how I left Ginko off the list, very famous for bonsai

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/bonsai.htm

[shruman]

I read that the aussie grower KOG grew a bonzi MJ plant to harvest while serving time in gaol!

Classic... youve got to admire that guy and his attitude towards to cops and gaol..

A foaf had a clone of N.L that was lagging way behind the rest, so when it finaly rooted he stuck it outside & as it was nearing end of season He ended up with a 6" fully matured plant with a 5gr single cola.

All the leaves stayed very small.

Kog rocks wot a legend!

[planthelper]

my mother hardly repotted her plants and as a result some plant turned bonsai like, for example her brugmansias and her ginko. i think fast growing plants like brugmansia, mitragyna and the like could be kept small by repeated prunning, whilst still recieving a fair amount of nutes. starving an ethno plant to turn it into a bonsai might result in a plant containing only very little of actives. if you using small pots than you have to keep up ferting regularly. prunning the roots once in a while is another good methode to keep bonsai's happy and kicking. in short, prunning gives the plant a chance of healthy growth.

whilst if you are achieving bonsai growth by means of neglect, you will end up with poor results.

[mauve]

what about an Iboga bonsai ?

I am keeping a Rivea plant in a bonsai form since it becomes woody easily.

What about Virola ?