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Coleus Dosage and experiences

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Would like to hear from people who have experimented with coleus, dosage, and effects.

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Assuming an 'active' strain exists.

My experience from about a decade ago:

20 healthy average size leaves blended to runny-milkshake consistency in water, drank on an empty stomach, no observed effects. A friend had the same dose as well, no effect. (weed was extremely abundant back then so our systems were utterly packed with cannabinoid metabolites. I have no idea if it makes a difference with Coleus, it does with some things)

No further attempts made.

That same plants still alive (ffs I think the thing is over 20 years old :lol: ) maby I should try n make a smokable extract some day.

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Its odd - people still seem to think that coleus is a possible active. All reports on it seem to come back negative, or at most, it appears to have nothing more than a placebo effect. I think we can safely say that this plant is not an active ethno :P The only reason it was ever brought up as a posible active was because when Wasson (AFAIK) was studying S. divinorum, a local had a big coleus plant. When Wasson asked about it, the translator (sorry, this is going off what I remember reading a while ago) said that the person was only growing them because they look pretty. If this is the case, we might as well go munch on some daisies or the like lol

It is only because it was documented at the time that this is still believed as a possible active, and because its stem and overall look is similar to S. divinorum. I'm sure Torsten or someone with a little more solid knowledge could clear this one up with more detail, but I think its pretty safe to say this is an open and shut case :wink:

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Hi Everyone,

It would be good to clear this up once and for all, as its fairly confusing - some people say yes and some no. some say this and that hybrid are active while others say only unhybridised are worth exploring.

I'm confused on whether this plant is active or not (especially after looking through erowid), As im sure a lot of others are too.

cheers, Obtuse

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Its odd - people still seem to think that coleus is a possible active. All reports on it seem to come back negative, or at most, it appears to have nothing more than a placebo effect. I think we can safely say that this plant is not an active ethno :P The only reason it was ever brought up as a posible active was because when Wasson (AFAIK) was studying S. divinorum, a local had a big coleus plant. When Wasson asked about it, the translator (sorry, this is going off what I remember reading a while ago) said that the person was only growing them because they look pretty. If this is the case, we might as well go munch on some daisies or the like lol

It is only because it was documented at the time that this is still believed as a possible active, and because its stem and overall look is similar to S. divinorum. I'm sure Torsten or someone with a little more solid knowledge could clear this one up with more detail, but I think its pretty safe to say this is an open and shut case :wink:

I remember reading about that ace, are you sure they were referring to coleus? I know that it is in Plants of The gods, cant quote the excert, as I gave my copy of my book to someone, and never had it returned.

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Hi Everyone,

The bit Ace was talking about I'm sure goes something like the following:

(from http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=39&z=5)

Leander Valdez III has stated informally that the Coleus spp. is inactive and any percieved effects are the result of a placebo effect. He has tested the leaves for the presence of potentially psychoactive diterpenes and found nothing. Speaking of the Mazatec curandero Don Alejandro in his 1983 paper from the Journal of Ethnopharmacology entitled "Ethnopharmacology of Ska María Pastora", Valdez says "The curandero also had several horticultural specimens of Coleus spp. growing near his house. Wasson has noted that the Mazatecs believe Coleus to be a medicinal or hallucinogenic herb related to S. divinorum (Wasson, 1962). However, Don Alejandro said the plants were not medicinal and his daughter had bought them at the market because they were pretty."

cheers, Obtuse

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Cheers obtuse - Thats what I was on about ;) If anyone has actually found these to be active, please do prove me/this wrong and let us know - it would clear it all up :)

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not so fast guys....

i used to have the same opinion as ace promotes, but than we had some posts of people who know there stuff and which reported some effects!!!

anyway the post i refere to is very old and i forgot the name of the member, but i think it was member wira, which stopped posting...

in short i think some coleus are active!!

Edited by planthelper

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UTSE.

Forskolin, for example is a possible active constituent in a related Coleus species.

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I tried munching on a coleus leaf once, until I realised that it was so bitter I would never even be able to finish one, let alone forty or more as I had read was needed. I got a blender and put fifty leaves in it, and blended them into yummy green guk, a tall milkshake glass full. I downed it in one go. No effects, not even stomach cramps. TBH I have no idea what species it was. In retrospect, it's probably a stupid thing to do to just eat a plant because you've heard that some species of that genus can be psychoactive. Still, that kind of attitude has done me good at times. I tend to be a bit more sensible lately though.

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Isn't the idea that there was at least ONE active coleus species? But with all the hybridisation by the nursery industry, for pretty colours, we've probably lost the original 'active' strain.

I reckon it's deep in the jungle somewhere...... B)

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Hi everyone,

Yeah benzito, that was my understanding. That the original strain is the one that is probably the most active. I read a report, i think on erowid, tho about someone finding an active hybrid. Who can say, but my line of thinking is to get back to the original Coleus Blumei strain.

The article i had been reading also mentions Coleus Pumila. perhaps this might be an alternative on which to do research.

Is anyone aware of, or have seeds of pure strains of both these species?

Any info would be appreciated by interested parties.

cheers, Obtuse

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Hello everybody!

This is my first post here, Corroboree the second foreign enthobotanical cummunity I attend. I havne't read much of the forum, but I liked the 'air' and quality of it.

I chose to re-enlive an old thread for the sake of info exchange and of giving hints to the future researchers.

COLEUS BLUMEI

===================

First of all, where has the 'rumour' started off? I believe it is the refference from the classic book Plants of the gods.

In there it is stated that the Mazatecs considered Coleus blumei as the child [el nene] or goschild [el ahijado] in their sage taxonomy, where Salvia divinorum was the mother [el hembra] . It is also mentioned that Coleus blumei was used in the same way as S.divinorum [chewing/quidding]. There is also mention to Coleus pumilus [the father, el macho] {page 165}

In the front botanical index of the book {page 39}, it is also stated that diterpenes have been found in the Coleus species of interest, propably leading to popular belief that the active agents in Coleus might be diterpenes.

Note that no 'direct' indication of psychoactivity is reported apart from the fact that the natives consumed the fresh leaves. Coleus forskolii is often mistaken for these two Coleus spp. C.forskolli seems to to be used medicinal and sought after the substance forskolin, but that's not our case here.

============================

Now on to the net facts. Some people do have confirned the psychoactivity of certain Coleus blumei strains, me and some friends being among them. Smoking plain leaf material [a couple of leaves] seems to have mild psychedelic effects on some individuals, while others report a mild psylocybin action ingesting 100-120 freshly picked leaves [various positive reports on the net]. Needless to say, other dismiss any action, maybe ignoring that Coleus blumei is a vastly hybridized species.

I was given such a plant - it remarkably resembles the plant depicted in Plants of the gods and is propagated very easily with cuttings. It has differences from some 'Coleus blumei' I have seen both online and in my area, used ornamentally. I also believe that the Coleus depicted here in apothecary's post is largely different than the interesting one morphologically.

=======================

The amount of 100 leaves eaten hasn't yet been determined as being posititve, but my friend Swim, who happens to be an avid MJ smoker, has positively determined obvious synergistic effect with coleus leaves + MJ and even reported to have worked positively of a bad "sleepy" batch of MJ. The coleus leaves sustituting half of tobacco smoke made the joints much more euphoric, stimulating effect for that particular strong but sleepy batch. He has had mild but always positive results.

What I want to say, is that for someone to experiment with Coleus, he must first find the right Coleus. I believe I do and I personally am convinced for this plant's psychoactivity. I will report more if the oral way is used.

IDENTIFICATION

I will also post two links to suggest which plant is more identical to mine and that depicted in the aforementioned book.

http://www.plantoftheweek.org/week249.shtml

This first one is not the interesting one. The colours are more dull. greens are dull, reds also. I have seen such plants to develop a crawling habit, branches growing also horizontaly. Also, some stems are not plain green, but sometimes in darker colours like purplish.

http://www.linnaeus.nu/Bibliotek/vaxt.asp?idnr=260

now this is more likely to be the one. The colours are bright, greens are light and bold , reds bright . Here , the new growth is developing only vertically and the stems are light green. The original Coleus blumei can be quite a high plant.

Feel free to ask questions ! Glad to be here :)

Edited by mutant

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I've nibbled a fair bit of this stuff, along with the rest of the common enough front garden salvia-type characters. I've worked out, personally, dont quote me, bla bla that;

The prettier the Coleus, the less it seems to do and smoking it would be a bad idea without real caution as some people have an eczemic or asthmatic reaction to em...goes for a lot of things I know, but there ya go. I've eaten (well, quidded, chewing the old cud) bulk of various Coleus (common rainbow ones with the fractals, the 2nd most common velvet and green margined one, the deeply lobed kinda mutant one, and a pure purple one) and at ridiculous amounts you do kinda get something going on...but I reckon that has more to do with a> your body giving you what you want so youll stop abusing it b>your body trying to process all that confidor your neighbours use c> sitting peacefully in a half lit room chewing and focusing for a couple hours. I'm sure if you munched thru 200 leaves of just about anything youd feel pretty different, I'm sure your liver agrees anyway.

The plain green Coleus (not Plectranthus, its just a plain green non-fractal Coleus) DOES do something, at reasonably small amounts, along the same lines as S.coccinea, S.splendens (the more feral regional varieties that came over with cattle trading from SA years ago, not the fluffy Bunnings kinds) or some kinds of S.leucantha (which I find interesting, but not entertaining). Plain green with minute amounts of brug were kind of educational but very... inhuman.... almost entirely informational rather than emotional...whether that makes it any less spiritual is up to you. Typical turning inwards til it turns you outwards effects, a profound "settling down" of various itches and twitches. Good for meditation but then if you need to nibble things in your backyard to just have a quiet sit you might want to see a doctor anyway.

From memory (this was all quite a while ago) A decent fresh handful of middle sized plain green Coleus chewed n chewed n chewed in quiet contempation was reasonably rewarding, but nothing to write home about... actually not enough to make me take cuttings or seeds, which probably says more than enough. I guess some madman could have fun reducing a kilo of it into one cone though, if your tastes run that way.

VM

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All the people in this thread who said there have been no positive bioassays (in regards to hallucinogenic activity) are incorrect, as there are a few on erowid and a few here (including one former member claiming he saw a hole appear in a table!).

It's possible that even amongst the unhybridised, wild standing C. blumei populations, there is still only a subset of active chemotypes.

As for Don Alejandro's garden being the only reason that this plant was ever mentioned, this is simply not true. This plant is part of a sacred trinity of Mazatec gods!

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The thought has occurred to me before esp. regarding the very trippy fractal ones that maybe they're a planty reminder that not all magic is within needing a plant to unlock it, some is just right there waiting to be appreciated and integrated without needing anything on board. If it is above as it is below, then its probably outside as it is inside...etc. Something like that.

I also suspect there are some people that are simply really well wired to put terpenes etc to good use, which is why theres as many good reviews of various sages etc as there are bad ones. A mate of mine can happily sit on his bum all night with a bowl full of officinalis, even. Might be some whacky enzymatic thing at work?

As long as there are bored 20somethings eating random plants from front yards, all of natures secrets shall one day be known :P Now, to get back to ignoring the massive and extremely happy patches of that blue iranian sage over the road in the old guys back yard...

VM

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I also suspect there are some people that are simply really well wired to put terpenes etc to good use, which is why theres as many good reviews of various sages etc as there are bad ones. A mate of mine can happily sit on his bum all night with a bowl full of officinalis, even. Might be some whacky enzymatic thing at work?

You suspect correctly, I recall that when Salvia divinorum was legal Tort used to sell his mix as 70:30 divinorum:splendens or some similar ratio which seemed to soften up the div hard heads...if that makes sense...

There is a good thread going on about Salvia nemorosa on the nook incl mention of a few similar plants I wasn't aware of.

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First of all I want to state that people who experiment with not-so-popular plants aren't always teenagers desparately trying to get high off their garden :) And thanks for the welcome.

Second, when experimenting with a controversial plant one does not have pre-set expectations of standard effects, even though most [if not all] postive references report a mild action, not an overwhelming one.

that said, Vertmorpheus, and despite of your dismissing, you seem to have recognised some activity, only not 'worthwhile', in your opinion. You speak of huge quantities ingested [orally] - I suggest mild psychoactivity and synergy at smoking 2 medium leaves. From a leaf 100 times smother than that of Salvia splendens which by the way takes up triple the dose to sedate. Sometimes individual needs might be more interested in quality rather than intensity of experience. Also, the 100-120 fresh leaves story is something that I have read over the net more than once. Is it the same guy? Who knows.

Heck if its a placebo I would like to it be see it going on being mild active or finally being proven a placebo. Only I want to see it with my 'positive' material.

About the active agent being a diterpene, that is not certain. It is reported that diterpenes [salvorin-like] agents have been found in Coleus blumei, but it's not proven they're the psychoactive ones. Although I understand a S.divinorum-like wash/extraction would be the wisest first attempt of extraction.

The prettier the Coleus, the less it seems to do
I also liked this quote, propably in a curious way - the quote sparked another idea cooking in my brain. There seems to be a connection in this plant: sun intake and colouring. More sun is supposed to make the colours be more beautiful - yet the plant preferably likes part-shade. Here, I will say it, only a suggestion, mind you, not a certainty: It might be that more sun speeds up leaf colouring and wears it off faster [does the content is enough in small or medium leaves exposed to sun?]. Coleus leaves are long living. Big old 'mature' leaves have more hairy texture, they're more fat. It is also been suggested on the net that big old leaves should be used. So thanx for the quote, even if you didn't go for it, you helped my speculation. :)

Heck I don't know all these common names [plain green coleus?] you mention, please give latin names, I am into cultivating rare, interesting salvias and exotic strange plants. All comments are welcomed!

About certain individuals sensitivity to certain agents or all agents in general: But of course! All kinds of sensitivities might occur.

You suspect correctly, I recall that when Salvia divinorum was legal Tort used to sell his mix as 70:30 divinorum:splendens or some similar ratio which seemed to soften up the div hard heads...if that makes sense...

Can you talk a bit further on that? You mean the mixture had s.splendens in to ease it down, but why whould a hardhead need a sedative to go into it? Maybe because of the hardline [x?] amount he'd go for?

It's possible that even amongst the unhybridised, wild standing C. blumei populations, there is still only a subset of active chemotypes.
I remember reding an retrospective experience report , it was a couple that found many huge plants growing wild. The above mentioned effects were reported. Coleus blumei seemingly is native to the island where the experience was had, in a vaccation {Iowa? - not sure}. Edited by mutant

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