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pat dasein

Epithelantha

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This is just a repeat made here: http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=47572

For those non-nook members I thought I'd ask the question here as I find the cacti-related knowledge much greater and experienced on the corroboree:

"I'm curious as to which species(s) contain or which species(s) potentially contain alkaloids and might have been used ethnobotanically by naitves.

The research, slim as it is, only seems points to the Genius without a particular species."

Thanks.

Edited by pat dasein

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Epithelantha micromeris is active i think

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UTSE!

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Yeah,

I used the search engine, and am left without anything definitive.

The sacred succulents catalog refers to consuming the berries of this plant for stimulant effects. That's nice. They have great plants, but dodgy claims...

Are there actually any bioassays to back this up?

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The plant is a Tarahumara hikuri species which is collected on the pilgrimage to collection L. williamsii (Ariocarpus fissuratus is also collected). None of these three plants grow in Tarahumara territory. I address this and other non-Lophophora peyote species in my book, Sacramental and Medicinal Cacti, the most thorough piece of literature on the subject.

Here is some of what I say about E. micromeris (Copyright ©2003, Michael S. Smith):

This “medicine” is said to give speed to runners, prolong life, and make the eyes large and clear to be able to see sorcerers. Both it and its fruit are ingested as a stimulant and protector by traditional Tarahumara foot-runners but are considered less effective than L. williamsii or A. fissuratus. E. micromeris is credited with great intellectual and moral qualities. Its fruits are laid before the altar in ceremonies, and it had continued to play a minor part in Tarahumara festivals well into the 20th century. Similar to terms surrounding A. fissuratus, any words describing the effects of E. micromeris must be viewed as only abbreviated renderings of traditional reports, and should not be interpreted according to a western understanding.

You truly won't find much more about traditional usage than this as I have reviewed the primary sources.

Here are the alkaloids in E. micromeris:

Tyramine

N-Methyltyramine

Hordenine

3-Methoxytyramine

3,4-Dimethoxyphenethylamine

N-Methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine

Epithelanthic acid

Methylepithelanthate

Methylmachaerinate

Oleanolic acid

B-Sitosterol

Methyl oleanate

I posted the full Table of Contents of my book at The Nook for those interested in seeing what other plants I cover.

~Michael~

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Epithelantha Micromeris is not active.

My friendhas eaten 30 pieces and nothing happened.

He also brewed another 20 of them and nothing happened.

Despite what is said in Michael's book, the plant is not active.

Also a note: the book mentioned here is a shortened version of the information contained in the book SACRED CACTI. Having bought Michael's book and having read the SACRED CACTI, I was quite disappointed to see there was no new information.

Perhaps the plant is active at 20 years old, but plants at a younger age don't do anything. You are all welcome to try :)

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Epithelantha Micromeris is not active.

My friendhas eaten 30 pieces and nothing happened.

He also brewed another 20 of them and nothing happened.

Perhaps the plant is active at 20 years old, but plants at a younger age don't do anything. You are all welcome to try :)

I greatly appreciate this info, thanks! How big/old pieces did he eat? Grafted or from roots?

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Epithelantha Micromeris is not active.

My friendhas eaten 30 pieces and nothing happened.

He also brewed another 20 of them and nothing happened.

Despite what is said in Michael's book, the plant is not active.

Also a note: the book mentioned here is a shortened version of the information contained in the book SACRED CACTI. Having bought Michael's book and having read the SACRED CACTI, I was quite disappointed to see there was no new information.

Perhaps the plant is active at 20 years old, but plants at a younger age don't do anything. You are all welcome to try smile.gif

Its funny hwo people time and time again ASSUME some kind of NON VARIABILITY on a GLOBAL SCALE for these plants.

For fucks sake, all sacred plants and sacraments have high levels of variability. Oneof the first things you realise when working with these plants is that the magick is in the inbetween, in what we dont know for sure and is not solid and definite.

One persons bio-assay does not mean the plant is inactives across the board.

Think about this: where the plant was grown, how it was prepared, who identified it, the individuals neurophysiology, the specific genetics of the plant, e.t.c.

And btw, i dont see how you can blankly write off michaels book as being a re-hash of old and already presented information.

Thatas a bit of a cold and jaded attitude me thinks, and from what ive seen Michael is all for the evolution of the understanding of these sacred plants, and is continually presenting new information and perspectives and exploring and discussing what is already known.

strange how such an acievment as having books published can recieve such scorn from someone who assumes that one persons bioassay is proof of an entire species inactivity.

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all the lit Ive ever read abot e.micromeris always talks about eating the fruits not the cactus itself, maybe the fruit is more consistent in content

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