Vipassana

[MORG]

I'm interested to hear of anyone's experience with Vipassana meditation.

I have been thinking recently about going on one of the retreats and learn these techniques. I'm primarily motivated by the opportunity to learn a new way to use my brain and to explore an altered (right word?) state of being. Who knows, I might even get some practical benefit like increased focus or concentration.

I'm attracted to Vipassana because of its non-ideological nature. I'm slightly intimidated by the ten-day retreat though.

Has anyone done these retreats? If so, where abouts did you do them? What was your experience? Would you recommend?

http://www.dhamma.org.au/

[paradox]

hey morg, i've done three 10 day courses, a few 3 day courses & have done service few times

i recommend it whole heartedly! the fact it is ideology free really appeals to me aswell.

i think it's an amazing technique, so simple yet so so profound it's so bullshit free! theres very little i can say about it (& i don't want to colour your experience) other than it is great & i really really do urge you to go & do it!

the 10 day thing is a struggle but it truly is worth it 1000 fold. my first time i found it very difficult but i also found it one of the best experiences of my life. the second time around i found it much better, the third it was easy (kind of). hte nature of the meditation is suchj that it gets easy the more experience you get with it ;) & i've found it to constantly help me & improve the quality of my life.

unfortunately i am not practicing it full time at this period in my life but i have recently been feeling the call again & feel i want to get back into it soon.

there are centres in all states afaik. the one i went to is in blackheath in the bluemountains.

so once again i can't say much about it except i think you will really dig it & the fact that you're interested & you're persuing it means that i could just be one of the best decisions you make in your life. time will tell, good luck

[Birdwing]

Synchronicity rules man I been thinking about this all arvo and was going to look into it more when I got home...after dabbling in a few different meditations in the last 8 months and not really finding one that seems to suit me was thinking of trying it out too.

[coin]

i'm doing a 3-day course at the end of the week...have done a few..have sworn i'd never go back there a couple times too ;-)

i wouldn't say it's exactly 100% ideology free...it is for sure a non-denominational practice, which is emphasised many times, etc. but you will still hear about buddhist concepts and lots of words in Pali. In the early morning sittings there is a tape of Pali chanting. At the start of the course you "take refuge" just for the time you are there...which is taking refuge in the buddha, dharma and sangha. It is all quite acceptable but just thought I'd mention it. The only thing that really gets me is the amount of "air time" goenka gets...I get tired of waiting for the tapes to finish to get on with it.

for your own benefit, be totally up-front and honest on the application form.

just generally speaking..anyone with unresolved issues of depression, anxiety, trauma, etc. i would personally strongly recommend against courses like these. they would probably recommend against it as well, which they have a lot of experience in assessing peoples suitability, and i would trust that as much as possible. (i know some people choose not to list drug use or other things on the application, worrying they may not be accepted. but i think it's best to leave this call up to them)

also - you are right to be apprehensive about 10 days ;-) it can be tough. but although you sign an agreement saying you will stay for the entire duration of the course...they really can't stop you from leaving. though they do have good reason for advising against sudden decisions to leave.

i'm in victoria...and there are 2 dharma centres (not Goenka centres) around here that i know of that do 1-day and 3-day vipassana courses for people of any level of experience. the 1-day is relatively informal with a shared lunch and dharma talk i think. i'm sure there are similar things in most states. this might be more beneficial for some people

Edited August 10, 2009 by coin

[coin]

there's a few other opinions/experiences here also:

www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17843

[faustus]

am interested to hear too, i was thinking of doing this a few years ago. if only i could afford the time off work.

[Legba]

I did a 3 day many years ago.

It helped me see that i was one of the rats in the rat race.

Good work for me at the time.

I hope you find what you need coin.

[G*P]

I've done 2x 10 day retreats.

It is some of the hardest stuff you may ever do in your life. I went on retreat with a highranking Australian military leader, and he claimeed it was far harder than anything he'd done in 25 years with the army.

My first was hard+peaceful. My second was total full blown ecstasy. I reached a nice samadhi on the 4th day that just got deeper and deeper. I didn't sleep for next 6 nights, simply laid my head in bliss with the moment.

a WARNING:

later in the 10 days are 'determination sittings'. Many people freak out from the pain that this can cause with the posture- and trust me, I was the only 1 out of 50 who sat these meditations without moving a muscle.

The pain will give way to bliss- no doubt about that-BUT, while everyone worries and their fears are squashed.. fears like 'this will do permanent damage to my knees'

please use your own judgement.

The amount of times I heard that curry munchers recorded voice make jokes about westerners and how soft they are.. and jokes about how its only our minds playing with us.

I took me over 12 months until I could comfortably sit down without tailbone or knee pain.

I had to sit on a keyhole cushion like an ass/hemorrhoids victim, because they were simply wrong. I lost 7kgs that week -assistants come to smack me everytime I was seen doing yoga or stretching.. and it took a long time to recover the physical strength and posturing required for my work.

And while they appear non-denominational-

please remember, buddhists can be some of them lost and dogmatic individuals about. Vipassana is brainwashing but as long as you're ok with that, it can all be positive in the long run.

P.S

break some rules while ur there..

think on buddha, not what others promise you that he said ;)

Buddha challenged everything, and then some. Do as was done, not as is said.

Its against the rules ( totally) but I do recommend taking small amounts of allies with you. And or jelly babies- nothing anchors and rewards a deep mediation like one sweet juicey jelly baby after days of vegetables

Edited August 10, 2009 by G*P

[coin]

wow, racist & pretty arrogant

won't even bother responding to that

your needs will be accomodated as much as possible and you can talk about any concerns you have with the teacher or course manager

as for losing weight, you only have fruit to eat in the evening, but for breakfast and lunch there is more than enough good quality food

Edited August 11, 2009 by coin

[GingaNinja]

I did one when I was 18 or so. I had no previous experience with or knowledge about meditation and thought it would be a really chilled out 10 days lol.

turns out it wasnt. it is up there with one of the hardest things ive done. I personally wouldnt recommend it if it is straight of the bat trying meditation.

Having said that, I feel it was a positive experience for me.

Things get pretty weird after 4 or 5 days, well it did for me. I entered into an alternative state of being and didnt seem to sleep but was not exactly awake either.

Food is great imo, at first you may get a bit hungry not eating at night but you get used to it after not exerting much energy each day.

The weirdest part is after 10 days of looking at your feet when ever you approach someone, you begin to talk to people once it is over. just seems awkward at first.

Like coin said, if its not your thing you can always leave. I wanted to but am glad I didnt, my pride got in the way of going and asking for my wallet and phone back, other wise I prob would have snuck out at night haha.

4 stars

[coin]

a few times i have seen people want to leave at some stage...packing their stuff. but then obviously changed their mind...each person said, when the course finished, they were glad they stayed and went through to the end (even if they'd decided this practice wasn't for them). i only saw one person leave who had some form of severe sleep apnea.

it's quite funny when the course is over and you start talking to people again..there's someone that says "mmm i didn't really like it...i just wanted to learn a way to relax" ... i definitely wouldn't describe a vipassana course as relaxing. yet when you tell people you're going on a meditation "retreat" they look at you like "oh how nice to sit around all day" as if it's some sort of holiday.

another funny comment from the end of the last 10 day course i did...this young guy telling me he had some cool visions on day 5, but after that he was mostly stressed and uncomfortable, and the meditation doesn't really do that much, and had i ever tried dmt? because you get a lot more out of that.

i tuned out when he started rambling about ancient mayan civilisations and tried to inform everyone young & old about shrooms as though he was turning people on to something that "really" works nice enough bloke...he did kind of make me feel old though

Edited August 11, 2009 by coin

[JDanger]

I also have been thinking about doing one of these courses. The potential of willingly submitting to what may be brainwashing is probably the biggest turn-off for me. That, and I have little time these days.

That said, it sounds like quite the trip. Might be a good way for me to quit smoking, too.

[paradox]

as far as i'm concerned it's most definitely not brainwashing. you're simply taught how to focus your attention & observe your self objectively. extremely simple. as coin said it may not be ENTIRELY ideology free, but they don't force anything upon you, they do recommend certain things that will help your practice, but they urge you to make your own decisions based on your own experience. they do speak of the buddha & his teachings, but they stress that to have blind faith for any religion or figure head such as the buddha is madness.

g*p if you don't take it seriously & you have racist aversions to the teacher then why did you bother going back for a second course? actually scrap that i don't really want to hear your reply...

can i just stress that it's not about 'experiencing visions' it's much more about focusing your awareness & directly experiencing yourself & all that is & gaining insight into your true nature. getting distracted by the visions or anything else you experience is very counterproductive.

a good example is the young guy that coin spoke of, it's quite common, it seems he was expecting to have some full blown psychedelic trip as though this is what the whole point is. so it seems he did experience some far out visions or some such things on the 5th day but from that point on it seems he probably was so eager to repeat the experience he got completely distracted by it & so could not focus on his meditation so therefore got no where. this is actually very common...

you certainly can experience some very far out things when doing vipassana. maybe you will maybe you won't but if it's merely psychedelic visions you're after i'd stick to dropping acid. however if you are truly interested in developing your ability to understand & experience your true nature, free from interpretation from the mind (& this can be a very liberating thing indeed) then i would recommend it.

if grand visions liberated us then a lot more psychedelic adventurers would be enlightened rather than deluded with an over inflated 'i'm so enlightened' ego complex.

[JDanger]

You sell it well, Paradox. I'll have to put this back on my to-do list.

[coin]

 

this is similar to a goenka-style vipassana stay how?

[paradox]

greencavefloat, that course is not similar at all man

in the goenka vipassana courses i've been to they actually specifically warn you against such courses.

"Participants in the course underwent "intense" therapies including childhood regression sessions and visualisations"

& this is actually the opposite of what vipassana is. vipassana meditation is simply present moment awareness of breath & bodily sensations....thats it. any deliberate visualisation is very much discouraged, as to do so would contradict the technique & theres no point even mentioning childhood regression sessions as there is nothing even remotely like that.

when doing a ten day course care has to be taken obviously, it's no walk in the park, thats why they are very careful about letting people with mental illness or mental instability sit the course. i had a friend who was once diagnosed bipolar & they wouldn't let her sit the course. she really wanted to do it so she got written consent from her doctor. it's another good reason to be honest on your application as coin mentioned above.

but seriously these two courses are so dissimilar you honestly can't compare them whatsoever

Edited August 12, 2009 by Paradox

[Legba]

This exercise, the 'sit in silence', may be used to get a glimpse of how you have been brainwash already. Seeing too much too quickly can lead to undesirable outcomes but a bigger shock than Vipassana meditation is needed for that usually.

[G*P]

wow, racist & pretty arrogant

won't even bother responding to that

your needs will be accomodated as much as possible and you can talk about any concerns you have with the teacher or course manager

as for losing weight, you only have fruit to eat in the evening, but for breakfast and lunch there is more than enough good quality food

Seriously- you're the guy who flinches when I tell my nigger mate to bring me a beer like a good little bitch,

while forgetting Australia is the multicultural epicenter of the world!

They eat curry? whats so racist about that.. The love of my life was shri-lankan.

you're soft, coin.

The 'teachers' are week too . piss, fucking weak!

"well.. (cough, cough) just stay with the technique" they say.

It doesnt matter what you wanna know.. "stay with your breath"

While imfalling asleep consciously, and conversing with multidimensional beings and am expereincing sleep paralyis with every meditation.. "stay with your breath"..

USELESS. but muggles lap it up.

I spent 2 years between a monastery in theravadin forest tradition, and a thai mahayanan monastery.

Most of em are VEGETABLES;)

@paradox:

racist aversions? wtf are u talking about?

EVERYONE i know whose done vipassana, has a masssive love filled laugh at the end of all that accent that buries deep into your mind! He cracks people up! I love it. Goenka is great...

he just sounds like curry, and i love my lingusitics- and curries can't talk for shit!- no offense. "spade a spade" and all that;)

This is it, you know- too many serious fucks who can't mediate their way out of a sprained ankle.

Shaman on that shit, suckers!

Edited August 13, 2009 by G*P

[paradox]

mmmm

anyway i personally recommend it morg. theres only one way to find out for your self it's for you & thats to go & do it

of all the people i have met who have done it, the overwhelming majority have really good things to say about it.

good luck bro

[MORG]

Thanks all for the comments, I have been reading them with interest.

I must say, I can understand why G*P's attitude to this may ruffle a few but I kinda like what he's saying. I guess I'm a bit of a control freak and I have trouble believing I could entirely let go and offer myself completely to this. At the same time, I think it would be a valuable experience if I could do that, and therefore makes it worth trying.

I will think on it more. I won't have time until early 2010 to get involved but I think one day I will certainly do this.

[paradox]

I guess I'm a bit of a control freak and I have trouble believing I could entirely let go and offer myself completely to this. At the same time, I think it would be a valuable experience if I could do that, and therefore makes it worth trying.

yeah i know what you're saying. you can never be perfect, it's important to not give your self a hard time about it if you let yourself relax a little from the strict guidelines... like g*p said, i don't reckon theres anything wrong with say taking some jelly beans or something like that to have now & then to reward yourself or something & you shouldn't beat yourself up if you miss a couple of sittings or something, but IMO taking 'ally's' when on a course would be very counterproductive & totally contradictory to the technique. i mean, you do whatever you have to do, but if you're going to put all this work in for a 10 day course you ought to take it seriously no? & give the technique itself a real chance. if you want to use 'ally's' at a 10 day course such as this i think you're really missing the point & i probably think vipassana is not for you.

in my experience the 10 day course becomes easy when you simply get into it, take it seriously & really work hard. if you are constantly whinging about it in your mind or constantly looking at the clock waiting for each sitting to end then the time drags by & it's really dificult to develop the focus to meditate properly. that said it's extremely hard not to get frustrated from time to time & you shouldn't give yourself a hard time about it. i just think it's really important to be adamant from the start that you're going to try your very best & take it seriously, if you can do that the time seems to fly by & you really start to see some prgress.

re: control freak. i felt pretty much the same as you the first time i did it. the ironic thing is, the technique can teach you to have a lot more control over yourself & your life & i guess true self control must also have an element of surrender if you know what i mean?

[mystical oyster]

Thanks paradox, lots of good info!

I have just been accepted for vipassana, i have never seriously meditated and am starting to shit myself a little, 10 days, the physical pain. I am tall and lanky and cant sit for long. Full lotus is impossible..

Im wondering..

Can you sit how you want or do you have to sit how the teacher says?

Whats the most comfortable position, in your opinion?

I was rejected at first because i told them i just fell out of a relationship and i smoke ciggies..

I wrote to them and explained my situation better, plus my determination

Got accepted.

Now im pretty nervous and realise its going to take a lot of work. Im going to prepare the best i can before hand

Cheers

[mystical oyster]

Bit of an old thread bump. Keen to hear peoples thoughts

[mystical oyster]

Some other questions

Ill be practicing at the pomona centre

Do they supply cushions or is it best to bring your own?

What type of cushion/mat/tool is recommended/accepted?

Can you sit how you want or do you have to sit how the teacher says?

Whats the most comfortable position, in your opinion?

[Cubism]

Never been on a retreat myself but here's some suggestions from my meditation practice which is twice a day 30-50 mins each sitting. I follow a Theravada style which is pretty much the same as in Burma which is where Goenka learnt isn't it? He learnt from Mahasi Sayadaw didn't he?

Anyway don't worry about how you sit. I doubt you'll be expected to sit in an extreme position like lotus as its just not possible for most people and counter productive to practice. If you can sit crossed legged on the floor you should be fine. A cushion under your hips/spine but not where your legs touches the ground helps take pressure off your back. If you can't do that because of a bad back or something ask for a chair. Maybe try and find out if they break up the sitting with walking meditation?

Don't go into it expecting to gain anything at all. Expect to let go of everything instead. Or even better, expect nothing. The insights will come to you.

Try to generate some level of happiness to be there no matter how hard it is. Not many people have the insight to better themselves so your already one step ahead.

So basically know that your doing something amazing, expect nothing and enjoy just having the chance to be still in a world where our senses are constantly bombarded with stimuli. Have an open heart and open mind and you will be fine.

Nothing of any lasting benefit is easy. Even if it takes until the very last day to be comfortable in the situation just remember your gaining an experience most people never even hear about let alone get the chance to do