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mutant

are you jealous? are you optimist? are you dynamic? wtf r u ?

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experimental thread....

hopefully one of fruitful precursors to a more serious study/research

* everyone contributing gets credit in the end*

*I am using words here, raw words, but stick to the meanings and general sense of exploration of those words who are about to create the next situation*

what do you think about yrself?

how do you think of jealousy and possesiveness?

are they the same?

my point is and its probably a fact , that

jealousy and possesiveness is traits we all got in various degrees.

I tend to believe we are little or a lot jealous characters or little or lot possesive characters...

also how do you think

dynamic and weak characters

and how do you thnk the sense of humour , weak vs strong , and weird VS normal...

my point is we all got those traits, but in different degrees

I want to create a new character analysis scheme,

and right now I would like to discuss some of these crucial traits, like those mentioned..

more like those are

being physically active, like body with sport tendancy VS physically lazy and inert,

concsiously active and aware VS consciously unaware

socially aware, caring about what society and sociaty norms say VS not caring so much about society norms

and all this crap

you think you can help me with me study?

ideas please, ideas

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Tune into the nothingness....you will find peace there

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you're missing the whole point dude, this is not the other thread y'know

I am trying to discuss character specifics

and in what range specific traits express themselves in all of us .

I am not revealing more about what I am aiming to, because its part of the question:

do you think people have specific traits in their character, and that the range can be some what mapped

f.e.

this man is 2/7 jealous and 4/7 possesive

compared to that one who is 4/7 jealous and 5/7 possesive

yep this is trying to discuss an experimental personality test

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I'll come back to this later, but for now the first idea that comes to mind is "what is jealousy?". I'll use a definition I read once: Envy is when you want what someone else has, but jealousy is when you resent them for having it. I guess for jealousy vs. possessiveness the distinctions are a bit different, (especially if talking about people and relationships, rather than objects), hmm... maybe possessiveness=wanting to keep what you have, and jealousy=resenting anyone who interferes with what is "yours" or simply has more than you do.

I strive not to be jealous, especially in relationships, because I think it's a harmful emotion - you're resenting someone else for what is actually a lack in your own life, and may have nothing to do with them. Envy can be more constructive, you can think "I wish I was as fit as him" or "I wish my garden looked that good", and then work to make it so.

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I shouldn't play mutants games..

Edited by Ceres
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fool moon cups of teen -
wax and wane
.. gibbous

empty !

Edited by mysubtleascention

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^^^ interesting perspectives above.

Sorry to do it again. From "The Power of Silence", Castaneda:

“[sorcerers] who practice controlled folly believe that, in matters of personality, the entire human race falls into three categories,” he said, and smiled the way he always did when he was setting me up.

“That’s absurd,” I protested. “Human behavior is too complex to be categorized so simply.”

“[sorcerers] say that we are not so complex as we think we are,” he said, “and that we all belong to one of three categories.”

I laughed out of nervousness. Ordinarily I would have taken such a statement as a joke, but this time, because my mind was extremely clear and my thoughts were poignant, I felt he was indeed serious.

“Are you serious?” I asked, as politely as I could.

“Completely serious,” he replied, and began to laugh.

His laughter relaxed me a little. And he continued explaining the [sorcerers'] system of classification. He said that people in the first class are the perfect secretaries, assistants, companions. They have a very fluid personality, but their fluidity is not nourishing. They are, however, serviceable, concerned, totally domestic, resourceful within limits, humorous, well-mannered, sweet, delicate. In other words, they are the nicest people one could find, but they have one huge flaw: they can’t function alone. They are always in need of someone to direct them. With direction, no matter how strained or antagonistic that direction might be, they are stupendous. By themselves, they perish.

People in the second class are not nice at all. They are petty, vindictive, envious, jealous, self-centered. They talk exclusively about themselves and usually demand that people conform to their standards. They always take the initiative even though they are not comfortable with it. They are thoroughly ill at ease in every situation and never relax. They are insecure and are never pleased; the more insecure they become the nastier they are. Their fatal flaw is that they would kill to be leaders.

In the third category are people who are neither nice nor nasty. They serve no one, nor do they impose themselves on anyone. Rather they are indifferent. They have an exalted idea about themselves derived solely from daydreams and wishful thinking. If they are extraordinary at anything, it is at waiting for things to happen. They are waiting to be discovered and conquered and have a marvelous facility for creating the illusion that they have great things in abeyance, which they always promise to deliver but never do because, in fact, they do not have such resources.

Don Juan said that he himself definitely belonged to the second class. He then asked me to classify myself and I became rattled. Don Juan was practically on the ground, bent over with laughter.

He urged me again to classify myself, and reluctantly I suggested I might be a combination of the three.

“Don’t give me that combination nonsense,” he said, still laughing. “We are simple beings, each of us is one of the three types. And as far as I am concerned, you belong to the second class. Stalkers call them farts.”

I began to protest that his scheme of classification was demeaning. But I stopped myself just as I was about to go into a long tirade. Instead I commented that if it were true that there are only three types of personalities, all of us are trapped in one of those three categories for life with no hope of change or redemption.

He agreed that that was exactly the case. Except that one avenue for redemption remained. Sorcerers had long ago learned that only our personal self-reflection fell into one of the categories.

“The trouble with us is that we take ourselves seriously,” he said. “Whichever category our self-image falls into only matters because of our self-importance. If we weren’t self-important, it wouldn’t matter at all which category we fell into.

“I’ll always be a fart,” he continued, his body shaking with laughter. “And so will you. But now I am a fart who doesn’t take himself seriously, while you still do.”

I don't totally agree and yet I fall very neatly into the third category, lol!

I think Mutant you will have a great deal of trouble coming up with a personality analysis machine due mostly to semantics and differences of intepretation aroud character trait terminology.

Edited by Micromegas

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*I am using words here, raw words, but stick to the meanings and general sense of exploration of those words who are about to create the next situation*

what do you think about yrself?

I was pushed into it.

how do you think of jealousy and possesiveness?

Jealousy is the anger or resentment that comes from the fear of losing, or having lost, love.

Possesivness can sprout from either insecurity or guilt. The degree of the control measures denotes the former attached emotions.

are they the same?Clearly not IMO

 

You could have introvert vs extrovert.

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The name is not the thing itself.

Words are not what they describe.

Attempting to rate and number the personality,

Is not productive.

Hence, my advice..........feel the Tao, be yourself.

All the analyzing of your thoughts,....and they are not what you, in essence, are.

"The Way is basically perfect and all-pervading.

How could it be contingent upon practice and realization?

The Dharma vehicle is free and untrammeled.

What need is there for concentrated effort?

Indeed, the whole body is far beyond the worlds dust.

Who could believe in a means to brush it clean?

It is never apart from one, right where one is.

What is the use of going off here and there to practice?"

Dogen

Edited by shonman
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On further consideration, I think this can't lead anywhere good. Try reading Stephen Jay Gould's The Mismeasure of Man (pdf here) for an account of some of the misery that has been caused by trying to quantify people. And while this book is mostly about intelligence-testing, I'm sure that many of the same problems apply to personality-testing. The only thing you're really going to learn from them is how differently people view themselves, compared to how other people see them.

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IMO trying to classify people and emotions and essentially label them serves no real good purpose. Reminds me of psychiatry and their DSM manuals that grow thicker and thicker each edition which seems to label every single person on the planet with a diagnosable mental illness. Some real silly shit in that book too. :lol:

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hmmm. what day of the week is it?

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If I tell you will you still respect me in the morning?

It's been so long since I've felt that little ole thing called jealousy. Life gets very uncomplicated when you are a hermit BUT it can at times feel a little bland but then I just whip myself up a big bowl of vindaloo and nick nack paddy wak its all good baby. Fortunately I have my garden and pooches to remind me that love is where its at.

Am I an optismist? I aim for optimism and often fall short in a puddle of pessimism which I then have to drag myself out of, dry myself off and take aim again and go on. I think this has been a repeating cycle BeCause , I suddenly think to myself, I have been feeding my soul the incorrect nourishment for too many yeares (remedied this day henceforth)

wtf is I? I is me and I is as I is. Did I say that right? lolo

Bill Hicks quote of the day. 'ITS JUST A RIDE!!!!!!' :)

edit was to add a smiley face because sometimes I remember after the fact to smile and spread the love.

Edited by AnthromorphicGerbil
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anodyne >> envy VS jealousy

Hmmm I guess you got a point, since you can be 'positively' jealous of something you see, in the way you would like you to have it, but not thinking negatively towards the person who does have it.

posesiveness on the other hand is refering to our stance towards what we already got, what is ours.

ceres>>

this is definately not a game, its a philosophical quest and in a way a somewhat original research, a rough outline of a work that is yet to begin happening.

micromegas>>>

awesome dude, thanks!

there are several other systems with only 3 types of personalities, most of them from ancient or early times and there are with 4 (4 elements, the zodiac elements fire wind earth water f.e.), there are with 8 (Yung) and there with 12 (astrology)

nice to know Don Huans view on the 3 types of personality

I dont think the 3 types system can be detailed and accurate enough, but If I had to choose a category, I am deffinately in the 2nd one!

you are right in that semantics and interpretation of words would be the biggest problem in coming up with a personality test like what I am suggesting. For this reason I have thought of two counter measures:

1) both in the questionaire introduction but also in each question, where f.e. you are to rate your jealousy from 1 to 10, there are difinations and explanations given. people will be asked to fill in the questionair according to the questionairs definitions and semantics, even if it challenges their own interpretations of words.

2) there will be extra questions , trick questions if you like to rate the credability of the one answering the questionaire, so in a way I am thinking of putting in internal security system to point out those who are not answering to the test according to the tests standards...

its pretty difficult to avoid words with negative semantics and implications, or avoid the emotional reaction of the if such a word is used, that's for sure....

jealousy is a pretty good example...

people have not trouble saying they're posesive, up to a point, but are not so happy to admit they are any jealous at all... I have noticed that people who are indeed a bit more jealous , when asked about it, they reply rather defensively, stating they're no more jealous than the average joe.

Shonman>>>

"words are not what they describe"

well thats a pretty pessimist statement.

words are exactly what they are supposed to be: words, but there are very real concepts behind them.

there are words that are tricky, words like "god", "faith", "believe", "spirituality" I give you that

but most words are pretty clear

you say

"Attempting to rate and number the personality,
Is not productive."

not productive? on what work/workings?

Anodyne>>>

"On further consideration, I think this can't lead anywhere good."

nah, you guys remind me of my father who said such things when seeing me watching nasty horror films. Well there is much essence in watching violent sick films so I am pretty sure there is much essence into making original research into character analysis field.

I dunno if this is good, but hey, I never wished to talk and deal about all good. Character analysis territory is a minefield and few really go out there, especially voluntarily. I dont believe in talking and doing things people are gonna cheer me up for. I am very into the saying "if you annoy a lot of people with what you do, then you are definately doing something good"

the book you mention is critical of biological determinism.

a personality test designed to be compatible with astrological archetypes of personality is not about fate and its definately not determinism... People and their personalities can change, but its not so simple.

anthropogerbil>>>>

not really trying to classify people, and the quantification is only for each specific trait by itself.

I dont know why you people react like this. People have personalities you know and no they re not 3 types of 300 types. they're countless combinations.

I know it cant be really calculated, but hey its definately not pointless, personality tests exist, I only wanna make a better one, a more universal one!

what's the 'no good' in this?

I know there are people who dismiss more or less the whole notion of character / personality and tend to believe we are what we are, we are one, we are whatever or that we can be whatever we want or something. Maybe more in a psychedelic forum. I say: Bollocks. Each of us has a distinct history and obviously, to me, there more influences than just the family, enviroment. There are f.e. the universal, seemingly planetary or magnetic or what the fuck which astrology has charted , the more scientific minded like to see this a the biological, the DNA (hence the biological determinism thing) , but obviously there's character/personality material coming with the birth, as far as I see it, and there's more as you grow on.

and let me tell you what

I am not saying the personality/character is a fate or something

but we got personalities, and we got traits, strong or weak in their intensity , we all got them.

Someone who denies this denies the whole idea of exploration of oneself and essentially the obvious answers to questions like "why we act like we do? " , "how come we grow up to become who we become?" etc.

This project is lots more serious than I will ever let seem.

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MickeyMagic>

thanks for the input mate

yeah I already got extrovert and introvert, but I am putting them in different questions by themselves. This is done, because clearly some people can be both extrovert and introvert, in different degrees and in diffrent occasions and triggers.

interesting also you give both jealousy and possesiveness the psychoanalytical trait

I tend to find both, well especially possesiveness plain animal traits of us, y'know, ape stuff. But its rather enlighting to also include the psychological undercurrence of jealousy.

I clearly consider my self not such a jealous person, would rate me on the verty low side, 1 or say 2.

This also makes me quite unsuitable to talk about or explore this emotion a lot, thus the need for exchange of ideas.

scorpios, libras, cancers, taurus , but especially scorpios, would be the most suitable to talk about this, but guess what: these people never talk about this shit or openly admit theyre rather the jealous type.

===============

so all in all I know there are problems with trying to quantify stuff like this, but I thought hey what the fuck, this has to be done by someone

and only trying to talk semantics here ...

also you think there's an athletic type?

not specifically the one who with actively engage regularly with sports, but the one with the 'sport' body. a resilient and capable body.

this might or might not correlate with the impulsive character .

do you agree that each of us has various degree of impulsivity in our character?

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i just read something in a book & though i'm sure it's a vast generalization it reminded me of you mutant, i wasn't sure where to post so just figured i'd put it here.. it is a book by Henry Miller called The Colossus of Maroussi, it's about his travels through greece in the 1930's.. the quote goes like this:

'...it is a kind of ferment which is created by reason of the fact that for a Greek every event, no matter how stale, is always unique. He is always doing the same thing for the first time: He is curious, avidly curious, and experimental. He experiments for the sake of experimenting, not to establish a better or more efficient way of dong things. He likes to do things with his hands, with his whole body, with his soul, i might well say. Thus Homer lives on.'

anyway the quote makes way more sense in the context of the book. it's a good book by the way. Henry Miller is cool

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Hmmm I wish I could say this for modern greeks.... nice quote though....

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I like classing these feelings into two categories

Negative emotions

Positive emotions

Jealousy, envy, possessiveness are forms of negative emotions caused by a basic belief in lack of abundance and acceptance.

Negative emotions will register as stresses in the body and increase the aging process.

People I divide into 2 categories-

Givers and Takers

or Creators and Destroyers

"Weak" people are often givers and "strong" personalities are related to takers. Just an observation, obviously we are all both but one category will dominate in most people."What can I get?" V "What can I give".

Again these two categories are based on a basic belief of lack of abundance or acceptance, maybe we could look more deeply at how these two conditions can create and destroy people.

Pat Parelli is a famous horse trainer who devised a simple personality chart for horses AKA horsenality.

4 categories are Extrovert, Introvert, Right-Brain, Left-Brain, may be worth a look!

Environmental, social, political, religious, financial, physical conditions are not included in these analysis so an overall picture of any given person is unobtainable.

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i think my ex girlfriend has horsenality

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woodwoman thanks, pretty nice thoughts and thanks for the 4 archetypical personalities of horses.

Environmental, social, political, religious, financial, physical conditions are not included in these analysis

they are included on astrological analysis though!

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You might like to have a look on Enneagram http://www.9types.com ,the personality tests are quite complex, nine personality types, also with mixes between them. Test based on attitude check towards ideas and behavior. Might fit to your description.

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thats an interesting system alright! thanks

I see me in 3 , 4, 5 , 7, 8 types

obviously this is a system that works a bit like natal astrology, but its less complex

still it needs to ne studied to be understood

==

edit: I did the some test, I answered 32 out of 38 questions

so I seem to be 7 with and perhaps a bit of both 5 and 1

well if 1 is true I am more of an idealist than I thought

pretty interesting and very suitable for sceptics of astrology

sceptics dont like to be aries or pisces, but numbers, well sceptics have less alergy with numbers, so I guess they might be happier with checking this system!

Edited by mutant

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I'm 4 with the wing in 5, and a cancer at the same time. I'm wondering how much you can alter the natal astrology with the work on self. I also remember that few years ago I've been a five and at that time it was also pretty accurate.

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cancer?? the worse of all signs, lol and most easily offended

I dont understand what do you mean by "how much you can alter the natal astrology with the work on self"

natal astrology is the basic structure of astrology and all types of astrology.

the natal chart is fixed and it shows the tendencies you might subject to ... or not.. so, depending on the point of view, some or lots of individual freedom is allowed when interpreting natal charts . But it is suggested and I agree that irregarless of what one does, he tends to be more "happy" when accepting the inner qualities, pretty accurately shown by the chart.

but if you are a cancer you will always be a sun cancer, sorry about that, but hey, you are not only cancer. You got lots of zodiac qualities charted according to the natal chart. moon mercury, house positions and aspects among other things are very important, apart from the sun sign.

you might wanna check progressive astrology about what you're saying, but it still requires natal as a base to understand and process.

but if I am understanding well, you're saying the type (9types) can change, but I think I read in that link you gave that this is a rare occasion.

maybe it is somewhat related with astrology's ascedant, the quality of which seems to become more and more evident with years passing by and is often reported to surface at the age of 20 ~30 .

How did you find yout type and wing in enealogy?

Edited by mutant

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