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More mesembrine containing plants

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Last night while lying awake I remembered that some years ago I tested some succulent plants of the Pleiospilos genus and found them to contain active amounts of mesembrine, but I cannot remember if I ever told anyone.

I remember Pleiospilos nelli, to be specific and there was one other which I cannot remember the species name.

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When u say 'tested', do you mean bioassay or chemical analysis?

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anyone got the sacred succulents catalogue handy

they mention this species and another iwith respect to traditional usage i think

u can get this species from bunning on occassion for $3.58

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Bioassay. Now that I think about it, I guess I did tell Ben from SS about that a few years back.

Probably others, as well.

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quote:

Originally posted by friendly:

 

Bioassay.
Now that I think about it, I guess I did tell Ben from SS about that a few years back.

 

Probably others, as well.

Please recapitulate if possible.

[ 15. December 2004, 17:06: Message edited by: r. Jackson ]

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Pleiospilos nelli is an African succulent that resembles some of the 'living rock' succulents.

The plant is very strange and I had them around after having read that the juice of a certain succulent described as being like a green orange split down the middle was dried and snuffed by the locals as an intoxicant.

Research indicated these plants to be Pleiospilos species.

I acquired P. nelli, seeds which most closely fit the description I had, germinated them and grew the plants for a few years as a curiosity.

When I first found mention of the plant and it's effects, even before I had it,I assumed mesembrine was the active , but didn't try any of the plant material until one of my specimens died.

I dried the material in an oven at low heat and smoked some.

It seemes to have a lower mesembrine content than Sceletium species, but after smoking 5 or 6 hits I noticed the distinctive mesembrine signature.

With Sceletium I only need 2 or 3 hits to notice the effect.

I smoked the dried Pleiospilos plant material rather than insufflating the juice or resin of the dried juice.

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I got my seeds years ago from Silverhill in South Africa. They have an online catalog now, and Rod and Rachel are extremely wise and helpful with germination tips.

Silverhill always has a catalog well worth checking out.

They list several african 'ordeal' plant seeds, but you need to know which species plants they are as they usually don't mention that sort of thing in their catalog.

You know; the kind that won't kill you if you're telling the truth, but will if you aren't.

They are also a great source for seeds of known and suspected mesembrine carriers.

It is always prudent to not mention anything that might give them reason to suspect you are interested in anything for just entheogenic purposes; focus on the medicinal uses and not the ludible ones.

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Anyone experimented more with Pleiospilos bolusii?

Is it a good seed producer? Mesembrinoid plants seem to be popular trading and AFSR stock so I've been considering tracking this species down for my collection if they produce seed well.

Thanks :)

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Well with the mesemb. if any effect is going to in the root.

The larger the root of a mesemb, the more of mesembrine.

I don't think that the leaves have anything to do with a it. But what many plants have a bitter tasting and gallstone forming chemical [ Maybe Torstirn can speak of it.]

The fermentation idea probably can up in South Africa.

Gave the [Dutch colonist] were given the crappy stuff [top] fermented and dryed and keep the good root stuff.

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A History through Western Eyes {GRAPHIC: OLD (PRE-1652) SHIP IN TABLE BAY}

The first time Sceletium crops up in our research is in the log

kept by the seafarer "Peter Floris" aka Pieter Willemz van Elbing 1611, 1615:

"...butt came not att roade by those shipps till in the morning.

Being by gods grace here arryued we presently fell to the ordering

of the shippe and hooping of our caske to fill freshe water,

for muche refreshing was not heere to bee had att this tyme of the yeare

... during which tyme wee vsed great diligence in seeking of the roote Ningimm

according to our instruction, the aforesayde 2. Holland shippes being expressly

come thether for the same purpose?butt [now out of season, should be gathered

from December to February], being called of these inhabitants Canna.?

Intruiging, so four hundred years ago there was a trade in Sceletium ...

was it because of competition from the newly formed tobacco colonies in the New World

that this trade came to naught eventually?

The Simon van der Stel 1685: "They chew mostly a certain plant which they call

Canna and which they bruise, roots as well as the stem, between stones and store

and preserve in sewn up sheepskins. When we came to the Coperbergh in October,

it was being gathered from the surrounding hills by everybody (

to serve as a supply for the whole year). They use it as the Indians use betel or areca,

and are of a very cheerful nature." Thunberg 1773: "The Hottentots come far and near

to fetch this shrub with its roots, leaves and all, which they beat together,

and afterwards twist them up like pig-tail tobacco; after which they let the mass ferment

and keep it by them for chewing, especially when they are thirsty. If chewed immediately

after fermentation, it intoxicates. The word kon, is said to signify the quid;

the colonists call it Canna-root. The Hottentots, who live near the spot hawke it about,

frequently to great distance, and exchange it for cattle and other commodities."

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Mesmbs grow best in a mediterranian climate with light or no frost

in the winter and 80 type temperatures in the summer.

Constant moisture and humidity are the chief cause of Mesembs death

in the winter.

Keeping memb roots dry with only biweekly watering is crucial in the winter.

Cold is not that much of a factor unless it gets freezing cold.

Placing them under a transparent roof of some sort

will allow for their growth under most conditions.

Some more shelter might be rquired in very cold conditions as long as it is

well ventilated.

Nananthus blooms on and off throughout the year.

Seeds should be fertilized using a spray bottle filled with water in which several

flowers of selected plants are place. Misting the plants accomplishes fertilization.

Sucessful germination is easy by simply scattering over supersoil in a tray

then placing in a aquarium laying on its side with the side entrance covered.

Put outdoors in indirect sunlight so as to not to overheat in the sun or with the

closed side facing east blocking sunlight.

Works well to start during fall and they will able to be picked out and planted

by spring without even having to mist as the natural condensation provides

all the moisture necessary.

When bugs attack a dusting of pyrethrum powdwe by flour shaker will do the job.

It take two to three years for nanathus to form a decent root size which is about

3/4 of inch in diamter and 2 1/2 inches long.

Glottiphyllum are practically usable by the end of the spring using the same aquarium

method.

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*Nananthus*, /B,18/ low compact tufted plants

1781.4-aloides /17/ recurved leaves, yellow-red flowers 1.00 3.50

Largest of the Nanathus

1781.41-transvaalensis /17/ pale flowers, faint stripes .85

Robust wide leaved

1781.42-transvaalensis Griqualand West, slender leaf, yellow-red fl .85 2.75 8.00

1781.45-aff broomii /17/ stout turnip-roots .65 2.10 6.00

smaller thinner leaves

1781.6-transvaalensis /17/ huge underground taproot,yellow-red fl .65 2.10 6.00

1781.7-transvaalensis CM45 long pointed leaf, many white spots .85 2.75

1781.8-vittatus Fauresmith, OFS, greyish small leaves .85 2.75

Fastest growing

1781.9-wilmaniae Griqualand West, small grey leaves .85 2.75 8.00

smaller thinner leaves small roots

1781.911-sp Enkelekoppie, extremely variable, nice 1.00

In general aloides, transvaalensis, and vittatus are the best for root production.

with vittatus coming in as the winner for growth, roots, and ability to withstand

handling.

Aloides and vittatus are the nicest looking.

The others will produce large roots as well.

Some of the Enkekoppie didn't produce tap roots and is too variable.

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A few corrections.

I not sure Glottiphyllums are active.

'Keeping memb roots dry with only biweekly watering is crucial in the winter.'

I don't know if watering is necessary or not in the winter.

I left them exposed and they did just fine.

Also the history is accurate as known.

But there another history pieced together by Sherlock Home type of deductive style.

At one time 400 years ago the dutch moved some leader out of the fertile tip of South Africa and he went to the central transvaal Mountainous region.

All was well for a time.

Then the Dutch moved there too and he had only a mountain to live on and I think thats where The Nans were.

They moved him out of there too and I don't remember the where he went to next.

So I think the Dutch overexploited the very slow growing Nans and only the Sceletium was left to be gathered by the nomadic tribes after a hundreds years had passed.

Just my opinion.

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Mauro Napoletano,

a,

* Cristina Fraire,

b

Francesco Santangelo

b

and Ermanno Moriggi

a

a

/Inpharzam Ricerche, Zambon Group, Via Ai Soi, 6807 Taverne, Switzerland/

/b/

/R&D, Zambon Group SpA, Via Lillo Del Duca 10, 20091 Bresso (Milano), Italy/

*Abstract*: This communication describes the synthesis and the

structure-activity relationship of

*mesembrine* derivatives which are novel phosphodiesterase type 4 (PDE4)

inhibitors belonging to the

rolipram family.

PDE4 is a cAMP-specific phosphodiesterase highly expressed in

inflammatory cells and in airway

smooth muscle. Inhibition of PDE4 results in an elevation of cAMP in

these cells, which mediates anti-

inflammatory effects and muscle relaxation in a variety of animal models.

1

The potential use of PDE4

inhibitors as anti-inflammatory agents for the treatment of *asthma* and

other inflammatory disorder has

generated great interest in this area.

2

The archetypal PDE4 inhibitor rolipram (*1*) has been the starting point

for the majority of

medicinal chemistry efforts

2

and from which derives the commonly observed 4-methoxy-3-

cyclopentyloxy substitution on the aromatic ring.

3

During our search for a novel series of PDE4 inhibitors with improved

pharmacological profile we

were struck by the chemical similarities between the sceletium alkaloid

*mesembrine* (*2*) and some of

recently reported PDE4 inhibitor series (e. g. *3*, *4 *and *5*).

4-6

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You might search the web for my paper "Empathogenic Effects of Sceletium tortuosum" ('authored' by by Groot van der Gross) which also details history and a little bit about the alkaloids.

Nice to see there are still people interested in the research into new mesembrine containing plant species.

I still have the occasional ongoing converstation with Dr. Nigel Gericke about new mesembrine sources we have recently identified, but neither of us has been active in this field for a while.

However, research indicates there is definitely a usable quantity of mesembrine in the foliage and stems of most of these plants, so destroying them for the roots is unnecessary.

k trout and I had some interesting conversations regarding certain Delospermas and their suspected mesembrine content a few years back, if memory (always in question these days) serves me well.

Lately, most of my research energies have been directed into the Nymphaeas.

Edited by friendly

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Just a note. Indeed some delospermas contain psychoactive agents, but they seem to contain DMT-like tryptamines, not mesembrine.

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mutant, is your info based on experience or trouts notes' data on Aizoaceae?

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Just a note. Indeed some delospermas contain psychoactive agents, but they seem to contain DMT-like tryptamines, not mesembrine.

a couple of resources have shown differing information on the alkaloid content of delesperma, with both N-DMT and Mesembrine being quoted. The 2 resources I have viewed on this (not the most detailed of resources) deal with different varieties of delesperma. This may mean alkaloid makeup may vary between varieties,

or may mean that one resource or the other is wrong.

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Oh, it is Trout and he also includes notes about mesembrine containing plants a well. Will post more when I get read 'em a bit more.

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I might add that relatively little research has been done into the activity of the other mesembrinic compounds i.e.; mesembrenol and mesembrenin (and others) which occur simultaneously with mesembrine in some species of plants.

I have some unpublished work by Dr. Gericke that deals with these compounds somewhat, but there is definitely room for more input.

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i have never taken ssri's in pillform, so i can't compare them to sceletium powder, however i have observed a few things.

scelly powder kicks in right away, if you are depressed, one can feel an easing out right away, and doesn't have to wait for a while to get those effects, like is said about pill ssri's. not to say though, that scelly might aswell take two weeks or even more to take care of your depression at it's best.

i never have taken scelly for more than a few day's in a row and i wonder if, stopping scelly powder, might at times can cause serotonin syndrome. maybe reducing the dose would be scelly aswell the way to go.

anyway a while ago i noticed for the first time a for me new effect of scelly, increased libido!! and not just that i got more horny than usual, the abilety to come was increased aswell. at this circumstance, i dosed much higher than i usualy would do, and i felt cosy and warm all day.

the best way to consume the powder, is to keep a small amount (just as much as you can comfortable pick up between thumb and pointer finger) in the mouth for as long as possible and to chwe this quid once in a while. the resulting juice, i keep in the mouth for as long as possible, before swallowing, it seems the actives get faster absorbed this way.

the most i ever taken was 6 or more of those portions, distributed all over the day.

my question would be, is it ok to just consume scelly for say 5 day's in a row and than to stopp, without waining myselfe off this substance? i sometimes have a slight sensation like cold water splashes around in my brain and i wonder if this might be a slight form of serotonin syndrom.

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Internet excperimenters and personal experience when younger determined that insufflation of very finely powdered Sceletium is the most amazing way to ingest it.

Put your Sceletium through a coffee grinder and whir it around for aminute. Take off the lid of the grinder and collect the fine powder that sticks to it by tapping it on a plate while the powder falls off. Insufflate.

20-30mg is sufficient for both nostrils. If you take too much or try to use it for too long it will tell you 'it's time to go home'.

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Internet excperimenters and personal experience when younger determined that insufflation of very finely powdered Sceletium is the most amazing way to ingest

20-30mg is sufficient for both nostrils. If you take too much or try to use it for too long it will tell you 'it's time to go home'.

have you tried doing this a couple of times a day? effective, but not very pleasant as far as your poor nose goes. THat said... smoking also gives decent effects, although, i wasnt happy with that, as I dont care much for smoking nowdays (something about dieing puts me off, i dont know...) orally, I mixed probally 1.5-2 grams "estimate" into a glass of water with no noticable effects. I have experimented a little with "cud" method... will experiment further when I have more powder available.

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have you tried doing this a couple of times a day? effective, but not very pleasant as far as your poor nose goes. THat said... smoking also gives decent effects, although, i wasnt happy with that, as I dont care much for smoking nowdays (something about dieing puts me off, i dont know...) orally, I mixed probally 1.5-2 grams "estimate" into a glass of water with no noticable effects. I have experimented a little with "cud" method... will experiment further when I have more powder available.

Dunno if you have read my thread "A Day with Sceletium", 2g of decent stuff should knock you on your ass...my guess is you actually drank it, you are aiming for sublingual absorbption so a constant little bit swishing around in your mouth is the way to go!

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Dunno if you have read my thread "A Day with Sceletium", 2g of decent stuff should knock you on your ass...my guess is you actually drank it, you are aiming for sublingual absorbption so a constant little bit swishing around in your mouth is the way to go!

yes, i did drink it... i was under the impression from the info provided from herbalistics that 2g would be a dose for consumption using that method. I will defiently take your advice next time I consume this powder(as i like to actually get results from ingestion :) ). My main reason for that post was to give people insight into the effects that I have experienced using various methods of ingestion, I hope it has served it purpose.

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