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mutant

How to recognize Trichocereus Terscheckii & Pasacana

Question

I wonder what would be the main characteristics of these fatty trichs, as well as other similar trichs of the fatty 'family'...

They grow more slowly than the fast growing trichs, I know that. They have more dense and long spination than pachanoi family. What else?

I am supposedly growing both species, so it should be fun :)

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What would you label this one?

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Edited by Philocacti
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This could be Trichocereus Chilensis! Would need a couple of pics to confirm but this dense spination is rather typical for chilensis.

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Yes that´s a great site! Compare the types from Culpina and Tacaquira. The one from Culpina is obviously Trichocereus Culpinenesis (which is a Taquimbalensis) and the One from Tacaquira is authentic Tacaquirensis.

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Finally, a detailed color photograph of the authentic tacaquirensis! Awesome plants!

One of the ones I'm growing are from Potosi, they look most like taquimbalensis in those pictures. Still awesome tough.

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TH>> I would say Trichocereus taxonomy and IDing is not at all beginner stuff - on the contrary much confusion can come from this genus - the dozens of names referring to a single species or species that are considered to refer to more species. On the other hands, trichocerei are not 'real cacti' in their growing habits, therefore are very easy for the beginer and they are hard to kill and very easy to grow well.

I dont oppose to people using this or that name, but I care enough to claim to at least try to understand taxonomy and not making up my own names or choices according to what name I like most. I was too enthousiastic with getting and growing named clones in the collection... but when I grew them out, only the ones that phenotypically had something distinguishable made me like it.. examples? nz pach, yowie, TIG (brigdesii) , kk339 pach, EFI taquimbalensis (var wilkae) . In my eyes, the ozzie bridgesii JESS is simply another typical bridgesii with the occasional black rot syndrome out burst..

Dont you ever think I am trying to patronise you or make you see the light.. I am just throwing an opinion like anyone else.. I am generally a uniter in taxonomy, especially if I dont see what makes a 'good' species in a Trichcereus X resembling something between pachanoi and peruvianus , f.e.

Mutant, are your taquimbos on the roof exposed to rain and do they mind wet roots over the winter? Do you get any nights under 0 C?

Tangich>

almost all of my cacti are currently exposed to the elements. The taquimbalensis have been through this more than once. they always grew on the roof from scratch from seedlings. There is also a pair of them in my first and fuckedup uncovered GH, at 300m elevation.. So it would be a pretty nice test to see if they get scarred or worse damaged.. (the cold is worse there) its a pair of one EFI (taq wilkae) and one plain tac.

I forgot to mention that apart from those (tac) I relatively recently grew from seed from some ozzie or nz dude (sorry I forgot who you are mate) I have a biggy one that hasn't yet pupped, it used to have a kk number (not sure I can find) and was bought from sab as a werdermanianus.. I call this a tac

So, no they dont seem to mind, they have been wet during this winter almost all the time... all trichos actually... do we get nights below 0 C ? well when I was begining, I counted a -2 and -5 two consecutive days, itwas for a few hours ealy in the morning, and it was an exception.. since then there have been milder winters.. But the consensus is that even if we have some minus zero temps, its for one or a couple days, and only a few hours per time...

They're stressed, they often become yellowish as a response to cold.. But they are fucking winners.. So far I consider peruvianus the most cold resistant, but also scop is surprisingly hardy and also the tac/taq complex too seem to be hardy..

Also terscheckii seem more hardy than pasacana, but I could be mistaking, as some of my pasacanas seem to be vulnerable through something that looks like the black rot syndrome...

Philocacti>>

Hmmm looks like chilensis.. but we cant see the active growth spine colours to have more hints...

could it also be a cuzco?

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Awesome information Mutant, thank you very much! That is very nice to hear, I have a couple extra plants I plant to put in the ground this spring (mostly puquiensis and scopulicola hybrids, some grafted on Opuntia), and my winters seem similar to yours, probably a degree or two colder tough. If they survive, then I plan to expand the patch and include taqumbalensis, terscheckii, leucantha, ferox, anything huge and spiny, the kind of plants I like the most. :)

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hey I'm glad to soak in as much info as possible nowadays, including all views.. whilst noobile, especially about trichos and other teacher plants = no worries and thanks Mutant

I definitely rooted my belief that trichos were beginners plants, mainly on how easy it is to grow them once you find their basic requirements and can meet them, which seemed almost too easy in comparison to some plants I attempted in the past, like some bonsai... and brought such satisfaction rewards that i just cant put into words...

Also Trichos just look so ancient and majestic and wise and I think they are trying to communicate with me in some manner that i just cannot put my finger on, in a very similar way that the aya vines do, but not identical,

and it gets fuller each genus member I add to the collection.

so I also encompass the view that these are highly intelligent beings , and perhaps that only just scratches the surface -lol

and teacher plants being key to understanding "it all" a little closer

i cannot claim understanding taxonomy , just I have used scientific naming for as much as I can and found it incredibly useful in zooology and especially aquaria (until L number plecs and then the excitement of "newly learned" species http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=482 http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/numbers.php?mode=l&thumbs=16 ) also aquatic plants and olde wild crafting herbs/wyrts , etc..

I have been taught a little by Anhuaki/Native North Americans regarding plants and wild crafting for food and medicine... and how to live with nature rather than against her

but the taxonomy with non aquatic plants is very new to me

South American: anything in nature really floats my boat to about 3 feet above the water!

and anything similar, climate wise..... from trichocereus to loricariidae

so if anyone has a huge fk-off biodome they need rehoming, drop me a pm ;)

and yeah im still not willing to leave a terscheckii out in winter here no matter how hardy they are :P

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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What would you label this one?

before i read the reply

it looked very taquimby compared to my collection of chilensis

but very chelensical compared to the taquimbos i have

~I would've been questioning it suspecting and hoping for a taquimbo vibe and looks very like a Taquimbo from the pic at first glance, especially the downward angled spines.

gorgeous plant mate!

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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Hi Guys! The plant in Hostilis´s pic is definitely a Chilensis. I am 100% certain. But they can look very similar to Taquimbalensis.

and yeah im still not willing to leave a terscheckii out in winter here no matter how hardy they are

Mutant´s climate is different and a Terscheckii would not survive a winter in germany or let´s say the uk. There are mild winters in which it might be possible to get them through the winter but the constant wetness would kill them off pretty quickly. I am very down south and not even the frost hardy cacti can thrive here because of the long rainfalls. In a greenhouse, it is a different story though. I oftenly have seedlings in my greenhouse surving the winter. That being said, i once had a complete greenhouse dying after someone gave me the great tip "they might survive". So yeah, don´t try it. Even growers in california have winters when they loose a lot of plants because of the cold.

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Tangich,Ferocacti are also very hardy to be left outside winter or in an outside patch, and even astrophytum myriostigma in clay pot, and the more hardy mammilarias, notocacti, actually lots of kinds of cacti including almost all the columnars..

but yeah, here is a bit like California, the weather I mean, since EG brought it up. Very different to northern greece f.e.

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Taquimbalensis

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Taquimbalensis kohres seed

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Taquimbalensis x bridgesii from ss seed

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Culpinensis cactusstore seed

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Validus NLsomething ss seed

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Edited by mushroomman
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I just had some pics toshare, but I started reading the whole thread and there seems to be some shit to say..

first

TH>> I tend to regard the 'validus' I sold to you a terscheckioid, only with sparcer spination and maybe larger girth and speed growth. we'll see... I was probably wrong to compare it to validus specimens we have seen from oz...

Optimystic>>

the "unknown ones" seem to be taquimbalensis var wilkae , fine cacti, finer than tersscheckii pasacana if you ask me, but they're not

terschecki/pasacana... it seems lots of taq wilkae seed has been sold as werdermanianus..

EG>>

you're not really a 'uniter' , huh? :)

====

ok now the pics

terscheckiis, pasacanas and a taquimbalensis = taquimbalensis var wilkae = tacaquirensis var taquimbalensis ...

P1130116.jpg

terscheckii VS taquimbalensis

P1130114.jpg

in some sense terscheckiis and pasacanas can be confused... well not those two, right?

P1130115.jpg

... but in this case, I was confused, but I start to make up my mind

in this photo there are 2 suspect terscheckiis I mixed with the pasacana swarm and there's also

the mysterious pasacanoid looking cactus, that EG once said it might not even be a tricho...

well I am begining to feel its a pasacana , but dont nail it yet

(besides, the only pasacanas I have seen is one large batch of seedlings II bought, some 100+ of them, at an age of 3~4 ? => which seem to have some variety , rightfully trusting my eye. but its the same batch as it seems)

pasacanas are the most widespread of them all... maybe its the link between them all faties, maybe even chilensis...

there should be other forms of the ones I got, which seem to be coming from a single or couple fruits

the 'mysterious' one is of course the on the middle, the most blond, whitish...

could it be the missing link between a spiny pasacana and a chilensis?? :P

Gosh, i picked it from a local store when young, but boy its REALLY slow...

P1130119.jpg

and a quiz for the end ... tell the terscheckiis from the pasacanas

P1130124.jpg

Edited by mutant
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Grew this from Koehres T. pasacana seed 3 years ago

What I noticed is that older spines are black or at least dark

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are they so dark when not wet? and whats with the limited rootball? dont you water this fella?

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About the spines, I'll check on Friday and I'll post pictures

This specimen was hard grown for a year after germination then I grafted it to pereskiopsis. It's very slow on pereskiopsis (even my terscheckii is extremely slow on pereskiopsis. Today when I checked the pereskiopsis was gone (looks like it rotted a long time ago), so now I'm letting it sit on the soil to root.

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no probs @mutey it's still joint first as fave cactus with a couple others and I love it dearly.

defo my shiniest terschekkle-type that's for sure ..

I will relabel it at some point when i can get to it , ..save any confusion later on in it's life ..and keep searching the fields

gorgeous pics you guys ! :drool2:

*gets wet*

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are they so dark when not wet?

What do you think?

I believe, that a lot of the grey color on the spines is very fine dust or clay particles.

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well the upper part looks like pasacana... hard to ID a stale/paused plant

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Wow..hola peoples. Nice to be here. A philosophical thought. . the more I think I am sure about a var of cactus, the more confused I get.

It seems to be quite difficult to try and label the various cacti i have since many of them are bought in nursery's that doesn't label the various cacti they sell. When I ask I usually get the response"i don't know" or I get suspicious looks.

But I think this one is a terscheckii I bought this from a friend of a friend. .or?

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yeah your specimen looks like it could be either terscheckii or pasacana.. more like pasacana... Seems it would love a transplant too and maybe some more light... also seems dehydrated.. is it still cold there?

Edited by mutant

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Ahh..pasacana.Thanks for the info. . Its difficult to know what is what eh?

Yes it still is cold here. And the former owner didn't have much interest in this cactus so he had not been so interested in giving it a better treatment. The soil it was in is old and not a good mix. Just plain soil. And it has been growing for years in a 10-15liters pot. But I will give it a better treatment for sure.

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Damolin (kitty litter [DE - diatomaceous earth)

with the pots holes bunged with some nice potting compost to about 4 or 5 inches (12cm -ish) :wink:

also these might be locally sourceable

cat%20litter%20sweden.jpg

http://www.bonsai4me.co.uk/Basics/Basicscatlitter%20page3.html

this is what I use in my cold climate ... (in uk so i get different brands but same stuff)

hope that helps

-hoss

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your plant is soooo beautiful btw !

I cant wait to have a fatty pasacana like that one day :wub:

makes me think of that rare tacaquirensis that Evil Genius taught us about

theres a blonde form of pasacana too btw (just to add to the confusion i think lol)

trichocereus_pasacana5.jpg

try to get used to having diff plants with same names lol :P

and diff names for same plants on some trichos too

(if you're beginning a collection)

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