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What is the purpose of a 'Shaman'?

Both in the historical context and the modern context?

Most definitions Ive looked at have said something like "witch-doctor, inter-medial messenger with the spirit world, retrieves lost souls, control weather, foresee the future, healer "

Can anyone be a Shaman?

Do you consider yourself a Shaman?

To what extent and why?

What role did the Shaman play for the tribe?

What role does it offer the greater community today?

What responsibilities does the title 'Shaman' hold?

:)

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Shamans would have been the priests of the day i guess... just no fiddling of kiddies and more consuming mushrooms.

I wouldnt agree that anyone can be a shaman. One would probably need analytically skills, empathy skills, a bit of crazy, a bit of logic, an interest in the new and unknown, not been afraid by the unknown. A shamans role in the tribe would have been a repository for knowledge and skills. Read The Amtrak Wars by Patrick Tilley. The series features 'wordsmiths' who guide the tribe in a more practical level headed way, making sure the tribe doesn't do stupid things (they also dispense Dream Caps and Rainbow Grass). So basically a shaman guides a tribe in matters of spirituality and practically however that guide is not always followed.....

I'm not entirely sure what the role of a Shaman could offer today's society, would the people of today trust the shaman who think he/she is just some whacked out hippy.

I like to think I'm a Shaman however I'm not. I usually dispense new yummys to my friends, I research about them and thoroughly advise my friends to the effects and detriments before I hand over the lollies. I make sure they make there own informed decisions. I can also see both sides of a story and understand them, I try to get other people to understand too however that's not always the case.

Sometimes I wish I did live in the bush with a bunch of people who were just surviving and enjoying the sunlight....

I hope I helped :)

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From Valis by PDK

Dr Leon Stone turned out to be one of the most important people in horeslover fats life. To get to stone , Fat had to nearly kill himself physically, matching his mental death. is this what they mean about gods mysterious ways? How else could Fat have linked up with Leon stone? Only some dismal act on the order of a suicide attempt , a truly lethal attempt , would have achieved it, Fat had to die, or nearly die, to be cured or nearly cured........... I wonder where leon stone practices now. I wonder what his recovery rate is. I wonder how he got his paranormal ability. I wonder alot of things.

Ive always told people that for each person there is a sentence - a series of words - which has the power to destory him. when fat told me about leon stone i realized ( this came years after the 1st realization ) that another sentence exists, another series of words, which will heal the person. if your lucky you will get the second, but you can be certain of getting the first, that is the way it works.

Edited by -YT-
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todays shamans would be those who have undergone the little death and healed themselves and who seek to heal others woes whatever they may be. traditionally these people were regarded as social outcasts in reference to there society but yet held a great power to heal and guide others on the path of the spirit, perhaps somewhat less relegated in todays modern world but no less important. you could say this in many ways is and can be achieved without plants / substances threw genuine friendship, music, art etc all paths lead to rome and the semantics matter little in this regard

Edited by -YT-
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Remember that most of the world's shamans were really just pseudo-shamans who only did it for the money/niche in society (I'm talking about tribal societies here).

Some were the real-deal though.

Good luck finding one.

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In a world of belief there will always be charlatans, frauds and fakes this is a given

what sort of definition encompasses " the worlds shamans" ? and if we are talking tribal societies we're talking from the point of view of western anthropological stand points mostly from anglo centric views which decide and designation that which is of consequence in terms of the tribal society and value, in refelection to our own society's religious/ethical views usually arising from the conquers or descedants of them which will inherently hold differing world views and values. The spanish were applauded by the incas use of ritual sacrifice which was certainly brutal but then went on to instigate generations of systematic abuse and death of "heathens" who would not succumb to the catholic church

Was watching sbs last nite ( beacause its the only channel i can get since digital came along ) a pritty random travel show bare faced cheek and they met this old sardinian fella who was defintely a larrikin and a half who said he loved to make people smile/laugh even if they were laughing at him - to me that is a perfect example of a form of shamanism seeking to bring light/heal others through humor at the expense of ones self ( at times ) :)

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a Shaman to the materialistic world would be like a spiritual lawyer...

but in the real world... its just a happy d00d with a spliff

whom, whenever something nice is said,

he replies... "Sha Man" ....

quite frankly you have to really want to be something and you can be just about anything you want

the only catch is, there is no faking it and there's no room at the top for those who can't conquer

the beast inside their televised souls.. I like that one liner "fake it til you make it" but the way I see

it, if thats what you are becoming then you are not faking, not in terms of how you feel about things

as far as witch doctoring,, the truth is that everyone's "answer" is located in their own story

a true shaman I believe is just a guide, who speaks well, the language of emotion... theres

many fakes only a true heart will ever meet a true shaman... but not that a dirty heart can't

find divine guidance even from a poisonous snake...

"What is the purpose of a Shaman" ... well a Shaman in a tribe is someone real who offers a sense of confidence...

Not to say a Shaman is a myth, but it functions similarly to myth in that, people develops truths in their mind,

as a means of coping with reality, and thus many realities are coexisting... and that means to me, that even in

every crock of bullshit, there is an ounce of truth... you can't even help a single soul until you can help them

find that truth, in their own way... and even then its much like the matrix, when Morpheus said, I can only lead

you there but you have to walk through the doors...

a clue as to tell who is a fake shaman? Thats the idiot who wants to help the man who didn't ask for it...

He might be a real healer someday, but most of them are equivalent to pill pushers and kids...

if you want to find a real healer, then let your heart take you there...

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i loosely think of shamanism as being responsible for meting out belief systems and quite a number of services which are now specialised and performed by university graduates, and that's applying the term to early cultures around the globe. since then we've had organised religion which offers a different take on the same role, science came along and offered a trimmed-down, toll-free set of beliefs, aiding the process of professional specialisation and our shift away from small tribal communities, away from relying on a guy with a weird hat to give direction in difficult matters.

now we draw explanations and practices from many sources, we each have the power and the luxury to be quite wise, so i find it a bit pretentious maybe that somebody bestow upon themselves a title that is like 'magical wise village elder', i mean its great if you're a pillar of whatever community you're a part of but why dig up an outdated title from pre-industry cultures. it just seems off, maybe ego-driven. call yourself the spooky mysterious cunt, or a pharmacology nerd, or a magical guide. those are all things that exist.

some people are very gifted but don't expect some guy to fix you. if some guy could fix you we'd all be fixed. YOU are the navigator. the shaman of your own reality.

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I used to think that people who called themselves shamans were at best using the word in a loose artistic sense, and at worst, totally deluded or appropriating ideas from other cultures because they had none of their own...

Now I'm not so sure. Our drug laws and society's focus on conventional medicine have certainly created a niche for some kind of shaman or modern equivalent - folks who take it upon themselves to learn about unconventional medicines and help others to use them. The medical & pharmaceutical sciences are riddled with corporate corruption, so there's room for anyone who operates outside that system to do some good. Of course there's massive potential for abuse too, as you can see in the new brand of snakeoil being promoted every other week. But there are gaps in our medicine, psychology, etc - shit that "respectable" practitioners won't touch with a ten foot pole, and often for good reason - I think people sometimes need that person who is willing to do the weird or unpopular or illegal thing to bridge those gaps and help people.

Not that people shouldn't help themselves too. But if we were all capable of "fixing" ourselves then we would all be fixed already :P Sometimes it's nice to have help.

Edited by Anodyne
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To me...a shaman is a person who is contacted by or can understand imprints from the metaphysical world. Lights, colours, synchronistic events, energy work, the presence or absence of something un-seeable, reading patterns, following signs and understanding messages, all of the psychic phenomena plus more...and who understands the interconnectedness of all and thus works for the greater good.

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...I also think that there are shamanic tools such as plants, movement through dance, crystals, trance states, geometrics, symbolism, words (vibration through tone), colour (vibration through EM wavelength modification) etc.

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I've just finished reading "Shamans, Healers and Medicine men" by Holger Kalweit - The author describes shamans and shamanic practices from all over the world - It's a heavy read with dates, places, times, rituals and lots of detail. The author stresses that the description of shamans by western minds is extremely limited and materialistic, often presuming the shaman to be 'primitive' - Whereas this is not so, because the shaman has mastered multiple states of consciousness and can traverse these states and retrieve valuable information - that the western mind is oblivious to, or simply calls them hallucinations.

I wouldn't be able to summarise what a shaman is in a single post - but there's a few good books out there that come close, for a tainted western mind to understand anyway :)

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It all gets SO complicated.

Very simply a shaman is somebody who can hold the space so you can heal yourself whilst journeying safely.

they will know the spirit of the medicine you are working with.

And be able to channel energy into you, if and when required to assist in clearing your blocks.

What complicates things is that they have so much training in other cultural and spiritual practice.

There needs to be a new word for the facilitator rather than just facilitator and not shaman. And please not Gringo Shaman.

Because the word Shaman relates to people with a lifetime of healing and priestly duties.

But our world needs "post modern" plant workers to spread the message and gifts from the teacher plants.

There is not enough time for facilitators to do rigorous training in a different cultural paradigm in the amazon.

To then come back and try make that fit the needs of a totally different culture.

The plants themselves will teach us how to run circles in our own cultural context.

They are not called teacher plants for nothing.

Faith, we are all equal, we are all from the same source, we all have access to the same unlimited power of consciousness.....

we could all be shaman if that was your pure intention

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There have only ever been two people I have allowed to really know me.

One is my little sister, and the other is my dream weaver.

Upon describing and reading out loud this blog/thread to my little sister over the phone she immediatly went into protective mode over me exclaiming;

"I don't want you getting involved in any cults!..."

By that stage I had finished reading the first few lines;

"Shamans would have been the priests of the day i guess... just no fiddling of kiddies and more consuming mushrooms.

I wouldnt agree that anyone can be a shaman. One would probably need analytically skills, empathy skills, a bit of crazy, a bit of logic, an interest in the new and unknown, not been afraid by the unknown."

By that stage her expression had changed to: "That's YOU!!"

The term "Shaman" seems to have become popular to some degree, something people want to become.

To that extent I feel it fails to be a suitable word to describe myself.

"Wordsmith" :) I like that. No room for pretense there.

"Little death" I like that term. That should save me some words somewhere along the line.

"power to heal and guide others on the path of the spirit, perhaps somewhat less relegated in todays modern world but no less important. you could say this in many ways is and can be achieved without plants / substances threw genuine friendship, music, art etc all paths lead to rome and the semantics matter little in this regard "

I heartily agree.

Remember that most of the world's shamans were really just pseudo-shamans who only did it for the money/niche in society (I'm talking about tribal societies here).

Some were the real-deal though.

Good luck finding one.

I agree.

Let me know if you find one of the real ones, I seem to keep finding key's they've dropped, I wanted to return them.

"a larrikin and a half who said he loved to make people smile/laugh even if they were laughing at him - to me that is a perfect example of a form of shamanism seeking to bring light/heal others through humor at the expense of ones self ( at times ) :) "

Certainly this would apply to me, the only time I feel truly happy is when Ive made others laugh, and yet a hide myself away from everyone and refuse to accept credit for doing anything good.

Dreamweaver with all of her logic fails to discern much of my reasoning, but when I stated "I don't want to help anyone in case they think I helped them" she had to repeat that statement and just sat shaking her head in confusion for a few moments.

a Shaman to the materialistic world would be like a spiritual lawyer...

but in the real world... its just a happy d00d with a spliff

whom, whenever something nice is said,

he replies... "Sha Man" ....

quite frankly you have to really want to be something and you can be just about anything you want

the only catch is, there is no faking it and there's no room at the top for those who can't conquer

the beast inside their televised souls.. I like that one liner "fake it til you make it" but the way I see

it, if thats what you are becoming then you are not faking, not in terms of how you feel about things

as far as witch doctoring,, the truth is that everyone's "answer" is located in their own story

a true shaman I believe is just a guide, who speaks well, the language of emotion... theres

many fakes only a true heart will ever meet a true shaman... but not that a dirty heart can't

find divine guidance even from a poisonous snake...

"What is the purpose of a Shaman" ... well a Shaman in a tribe is someone real who offers a sense of confidence...

Not to say a Shaman is a myth, but it functions similarly to myth in that, people develops truths in their mind,

as a means of coping with reality, and thus many realities are coexisting... and that means to me, that even in

every crock of bullshit, there is an ounce of truth... you can't even help a single soul until you can help them

find that truth, in their own way... and even then its much like the matrix, when Morpheus said, I can only lead

you there but you have to walk through the doors...

a clue as to tell who is a fake shaman? Thats the idiot who wants to help the man who didn't ask for it...

He might be a real healer someday, but most of them are equivalent to pill pushers and kids...

if you want to find a real healer, then let your heart take you there...

What I wanted to be never really occurred to me.

It started with tears and voice in my head I tried to label as "ego" or "self-preservation" but has it all ways been much much more than that.

I Didn't see any point in faking anything (to myself or those I extended any form of trust) as lies seemed harmful and mean, and faking anything by extension seemed callous.

I just wanted to understand what was so wrong with everyone who seemed so blind deaf and and dumb despite what they said and did, or maybe more so because of that.

I'm unsure of what I am becoming, let alone if I truly want be it. Ive spent my entire life running from that and 'the voice'.

But how does one hide from oneself?

Especially when hidden helpers seem to overcome every resistance to live.

"Confidence" Ha! That seems to be one of my main toys, but I keep it in locked up in my chest with neither the heart nor the will to use it.. except on those times when wild fires of emotions rip through me about something that seems important at the time. I'm never quiet sure if I have achieved more helping or harming.

So I always put that toy away in my chest so as not to trip over it.

I understand what the matrix is that binds people in cages.

Like I said I keep finding these keys..so I let myself out.. but no one seems to hear me when I offer them keys so they can let themselves out.

Which is why I thought I should return them to a real shaman.

i loosely think of shamanism as being responsible for meting out belief systems and quite a number of services which are now specialised and performed by university graduates, and that's applying the term to early cultures around the globe. since then we've had organised religion which offers a different take on the same role, science came along and offered a trimmed-down, toll-free set of beliefs, aiding the process of professional specialisation and our shift away from small tribal communities, away from relying on a guy with a weird hat to give direction in difficult matters.

Sounds ghastly!

Except for the guy with the weird hat. I like weird hats.

now we draw explanations and practices from many sources, we each have the power and the luxury to be quite wise, so i find it a bit pretentious maybe that somebody bestow upon themselves a title that is like 'magical wise village elder', i mean its great if you're a pillar of whatever community you're a part of but why dig up an outdated title from pre-industry cultures. it just seems off, maybe ego-driven. call yourself the spooky mysterious cunt, or a pharmacology nerd, or a magical guide. those are all things that exist.

some people are very gifted but don't expect some guy to fix you. if some guy could fix you we'd all be fixed. YOU are the navigator. the shaman of your own reality.

I agree. We do, and yet so few have time for navigating the "how" to "be their own navigator."

Not that people shouldn't help themselves too. But if we were all capable of "fixing" ourselves then we would all be fixed already :P Sometimes it's nice to have help.

More often than not, a friend or loved one or sometimes even a stranger sparing some time to consciously listen to someone who feels 'down' is all that's needed.

To me...a shaman is a person who is contacted by or can understand imprints from the metaphysical world. Lights, colours, synchronistic events, energy work, the presence or absence of something un-seeable, reading patterns, following signs and understanding messages, all of the psychic phenomena plus more...and who understands the interconnectedness of all and thus works for the greater good.

It's all just a blur to me. I'm forever misunderstanding almost everything anyone says to me in the physical world let alone understanding meta-physical!

I've just finished reading "Shamans, Healers and Medicine men" by Holger Kalweit - The author describes shamans and shamanic practices from all over the world - It's a heavy read with dates, places, times, rituals and lots of detail. The author stresses that the description of shamans by western minds is extremely limited and materialistic, often presuming the shaman to be 'primitive' - Whereas this is not so, because the shaman has mastered multiple states of consciousness and can traverse these states and retrieve valuable information - that the western mind is oblivious to, or simply calls them hallucinations.

I wouldn't be able to summarise what a shaman is in a single post - but there's a few good books out there that come close, for a tainted western mind to understand anyway :)

I have a heavy reading list as it is, and piles of dishes and laundry and a backlog of gardening jobs all of which I mysteriously felt paralyzed to do today but I was able to write this and do nothing else.. WTF's with that?

It all gets SO complicated.

Very simply a shaman is somebody who can hold the space so you can heal yourself whilst journeying safely.

they will know the spirit of the medicine you are working with.

And be able to channel energy into you, if and when required to assist in clearing your blocks.

What complicates things is that they have so much training in other cultural and spiritual practice.

There needs to be a new word for the facilitator rather than just facilitator and not shaman. And please not Gringo Shaman.

Because the word Shaman relates to people with a lifetime of healing and priestly duties.

But our world needs "post modern" plant workers to spread the message and gifts from the teacher plants.

There is not enough time for facilitators to do rigorous training in a different cultural paradigm in the amazon.

To then come back and try make that fit the needs of a totally different culture.

The plants themselves will teach us how to run circles in our own cultural context.

They are not called teacher plants for nothing.

Faith, we are all equal, we are all from the same source, we all have access to the same unlimited power of consciousness.....

we could all be shaman if that was your pure intention

Sounds complicated.

Perhaps I shall just leave the keys by the door if anyone wants them.

All we need to do is have more love for the Earth mother than we have for ourselves..

But how many put the Earth mother and the planets future generations before their own desire to breed?

Worms are purely givers that stop breeding when resources are low.

Humans seem to be mostly takers that see breeding "the next generation as the hope for the future" regardless of how much resources are available or the consequences that those children will have to endure because of this short sighted thinking.

But that's another story...

:)

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correct. Also it pertains to a state of consciousness which is involved during or after a sexual experience, the key being the experience of that state itself which is one of dissolving boundaries of the self

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O!

:lol:

Glad you clarified that for me before I started using it in conversation!

Still, wouldn't be the first time I used a term I misunderstood..I'm forever making my Dreamweaver laugh at my accidental or just plain ignorant mis-use of words!

Then again, telling me a meaning is no guarantee I wont mis-use it...

When I go to the bakery to buy bread I still keep saying "the loaf with sesame seeds on it" when I actually mean "the loaf with poppy seeds"

I tend to be in more amazement that people get anything out of the things I say, than the people that are amazed at things I say!

Perhaps this is simply because they think I'm saying some sort of clever joke. Ha ha ha! No! I'm just a fool!

Communicating with words is a bit more like a game of scrabble to me.

I never know exactly what words will come out of my own mouth.

I can communicate much quicker, clearer and more succinctly with emotive sounds and gestures!

Maybe I really did cause myself long term brain damage with all those head injuries and alcohol induced blackouts..I'm amazed I'm still alive!

Some good :huh::scratchhead: stories there, well worth a thread sometime in the future..

Question: If an orgasm is all it takes to dissolve the boundaries of the self, which I presume would lead to selfless acts of love towards all others, does this mean for all the sex everyone is having very few actually achieve an orgasm? Or dose it need to be some sort of super orgasm?

Or am I presuming too much?

:)

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I used to think that people who called themselves shamans were at best using the word in a loose artistic sense, and at worst, totally deluded or appropriating ideas from other cultures because they had none of their own...

I completely agree with this statement, however, coming from a sociological standpoint it is important to offer the unbiased view. I feel that yes, there are modern shamans (in both western society and tribal societies) some are real and some are fake. Just because you have tripped balls, it doesn't make you a shaman. Just because you have tripped balls and closed your eyes for five minutes come out and say "I have been given an answer by the spirit" and even if the person you are attempting to help accepts it and is effectively helped by your answer, it still does not make you a "Shaman". It makes you a neo-psuedo-Shaman, With an ego. Which completely defeats the purpose of the many entheogens they take.

Thicker the ego the thicker the problems. Shamans are not exempt from this rule

EDIT:

Question: If an orgasm is all it takes to dissolve the boundaries of the self, which I presume would lead to selfless acts of love towards all others, does this mean for all the sex everyone is having very few actually achieve an orgasm? Or dose it need to be some sort of super orgasm?

Or am I presuming too much?

I believe the traditional cumshot can only dissolve the boundary between two people if its made of highly corrosive acid. Or, that person is willingly showing a side of themselves that is rare, like when you take Psilocybin/DMT/LSD etc. its not always guaranteed ego-death because your ego can fight opening up, your ego can fight those feelings of letting the true self (leading cause of bad trips), the self which lies beneath the ego, to emerge. Orgasms are much the same, your ego can fight opening up and it will only result in a little bit of semen rather than compassion and care for other individuals. If that makes sense? 0_o

Edited by 3rdI
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^^^ :)

Love it!

Edited by MikeyMagic

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It is my perception that the "little death" would pertain to the death of the "Little will" or ego of a person and the submission to the "Greater will" of God.

:)

Edited by MikeyMagic
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Shaman is a label that we have given, along with the power that it holds over us.

We give our power away when we say that only something or someone outside of us has the power to create necessary change within us.

This is the oldest occult trick in the book, taught that we are not the true creators of our reality, someone else is, we must ask them for help.

How often do we first ask ourselves for help/guidance? Or do we want someone else to be responsible for us?

We are all human (god in man) and we all have the ability to change certain aspects of ourselves, but we are simply programmed not to.

eg. I had juvenile rheumatoid arthritis when I was young, it lasted for many years and became debilitating, then one week I meditated on it for the whole week and the next week it was gone. I have not had it reoccur either. I asked my higher self to remember running freely on the grass, without pain and it did. No drugs, No shaman!

We can program water crystals with words and thoughts as is well documented by Masaru Emoto, so why not our own bodies which are 90% water?

If we are seeking an external infleuence to save us, then we have lost faith in ourselves as grand creators, with free will, and I am not sure there is help for that! Church, Small Death, Maybe Shrooms?

All information is stored in each cell of every human body, so be your own shaman and learn to listen to and work with yourself. :wink:

If you can not hear yourself clearly, try eating some food straight from your garden, this can clear up many a blocked channell.

Pure thoughts are a key, please leave your purest thoughts with me. :blush:

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^^^^ Too right!

Be your own Shaman!

Learn how to listen to your-self!

Edited by MikeyMagic
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Maybe it may be summed up as follows:

"Western" shamanism (due to laws inhibiting practice and passage of knowledge through time):

- artistic expression

- song and dance

- creative writing & story telling

- will power (ie. lucid dreaming)

True shamanism (actual practice):

- uptake of plant materials to induce trance like phenomena and open portals to access other realms

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nice thread:

What is the purpose of a 'Shaman'?

the use of ' ' s , introduces the first problem with the word, meaning it is used in a wide contect of meanings.

Both in the historical context and the modern context?

a shaman is the religious and spiritual leader or teacher. its pretty simple if you see it as an important man of a simple archaic society.

Can anyone be a Shaman?

nope, westerners will never become one. Shamans are something out of the past, it tends to be lost nowadays, most modern psych-shamans sold out to the tourists buying psychedelic spirit. Other than that, shamanism is just a more decent form of religion, and it is more decent because it is closer to nature. But because religion is shit and produces lots of sheep, neo-shamanism is not really as important as its advocates claim. It's just a another wave of "return to the source" , new agism and all that shit. Why be a 'shaman' when you can be yourself?

Do you consider yourself a Shaman?

of course not. no westerner can become a shaman, however loudly he might shout he is indeed one.

To what extent and why?

to no extent, you cannot become a shaman, only a wanna-be shaman. The term neo-shaman is better, to describe modern healers/spiritual teachers of a western background. It also describes it better as a modern phenomenon not really linked to the real shamans.

What role did the Shaman play for the tribe?

one of the leaders. respected and loved. probably feared too. Most probably also manipulated the tribe, and established his authorities in some occasions to control the tribe more efficiently.

What role does it offer the greater community today?

wut? thinking shamans might save the greater community is like saying praying will save the greater community. and thats a good analogue really.

What responsibilities does the title 'Shaman' hold?

I let you believers answer this!

Fuck shamanism, get educated, knowledgfe is power, wishful thinking is dreaming

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