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Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2503370/Quantum-physics-proves-IS-afterlife-claims-scientist.html

  • Robert Lanza claims the theory of biocentrism says death is an illusion
  • He said life creates the universe, and not the other way round
  • This means space and time don't exist in the linear fashion we think it does
  • He uses the famous double-split experiment to illustrate his point
  • And if space and time aren't linear, then death can't exist in 'any real sense' either

i haven't looked into who this bloke is or anything, it is a daily mail article.. but interesting stuff, would be good to see solid tests that can demonstrate it. this sort of thing has always seemed like common sense to me, would be good to get some solid data for the Aristotelian's to mull over

edit: maybe it should have gone in news & notices instead?

Edited by paradox

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is it an afterlife, or a beforelife….. :o

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why does it come straight back to whether there is an afterlife...

i must warn that quantum theory is the go-to-guy for anyone wishing to make it seem that their views are supported by hard science.

i don't understand what an 'observer' is, and whether it has anything to do with consciousness. i think i heard that ordinary matter can collapse superpositions, simply when one of several possibilities actually eventuates, eg two particles impact instead of missing. without knowing the full picture (the basics) i couldn't justify believing anybody who says things like 'consciousness creates the universe, we know because of quantum physics', or whatever the claim may be.

i've had ideas about reality moulding itself to suit life (rather than infinite different realities) in a way that seems to defy the direction of time (universe appears to have been destined to be very suitable for life as we know it, but actually took queues from it's own possible futures). again it's a dead end without a grasp of quantum physics.

edit: i think it's in the right section. the news section is supposed to contain important news for our community specifically, without it all getting flooded off the first page by regular news.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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i must warn that quantum theory is the go-to-guy for anyone wishing to make it seem that their views are supported by hard science.

THIS.

I'm so sick of seeing books with titles like Laws of Quantum Attraction, or articles like "Quantum physics proves *insert whacky and completely unproven idea*"

To call it pseudoscience is high flattery.

EDIT: no offense intended, Paradox - I didn't look into the article you posted. I'm just ranting about what I've seen.

Edited by gtarman
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didn't some 18th century American native say "death.........there is no death, only a change of worlds"

the thing about afterlife.........or reincarnation.......it all gets a little fuzzy.............what part of you lives on?..................if you forget yourself ...your memories.............like a bad case of dementia.........(a long period we may occupy before death).................then in some ways you have died...................like the car lives on but the driver dies.................. if life is like some endless stream............of shifting realities..............that might get a bit a downer after a few hundred years of continual existence...................survival is overrated ..........................

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i don't think we get bored, if there is some eternal essence behind the curtains of our animal lifespan. boredom is something that animals suffer. i think that for certain incorporeal entities existence is (or is at times) like a crazy full power acid trip with NO RESPITE. i can't decide on my favourite way to imagine it so i can't describe it, but there are things that go out the window if you are just energy, or beyond energy, there could be as few as zero constraints on whatever mind you have. here's something to imagine, you're stumbling around existence, maybe you've decided that you're god, or you think it would be justified to think so, literally stumbling around, unlimited power to trip except there might not be a backdrop of ordinary reality, for all you know everything you imagine is being created, unlimited power to create, zero opportunity to contemplate the infinitely bizarre new things coming out of you because they just keep coming, infinite amount of sense data reaching your mind non-stop. if you were a human you could scream, or become catatonic..

.. but i actually think we are experiencing something like that. the wheel of life and death lets us hide from our true self, but i get the feeling it's just another bizarre little sequence before the trip takes another turn, and it's overall impact is just the experience of recalling the last moment of your dream and simultaneously forgetting it.

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I just read the article in the link from the OP and it was very scant on details except for the example of the double split experiment. The link to the book review of the book he is selling doesn't give much more insight.

From the details I can gather from those two sources it seems like little more than the observer effect and an overactive imagination. I fully believe we can influence the physical world by interacting with, but to categorically state that there is an afterlife based on the few details provided (without reading the book) seems very optimistic.

I could validate precognition or déjà vu from such an experiment, so maybe consciousness does pervade & persist. I really don't know.

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The "double split experiment" has been around for a while.................it is a paradox..................but physics is still emerging..............infinite amounts we don't know.....................................

I think I get what your saying Thunderldeal................yeah I think being human is more about limitations its our physical and conscious boundaries that ALLOW us to be human .....................yeah with out the boundaries boredom is no longer a consequence......................boredom is a boundary...........................

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sally at least you recognise and admit that you don't know.

i wrote a fun post then lost it, so breifly..

there's a bunch of questions about what awareness is which are hard to look at seperately, and people will disfavour certain questions based on how they answered other questions, but it all centers around the nature of our awareness. best to start with the notion that awareness arises from the physical body, because it's the simplest explanation and favoured by many people. if that' true then i perceive an (illusory) sense of self, an awareness. hang on, who? i thought there was no i, yet i experience this life in fact this life is my entire universe. why can't all of my mind-body functions just arise as they do, from the bits of law-abiding matter in my body, allowing this animal to carry out its life, without the experience of... experiencing! why is there a witness here, to witness this experience? if my bioelectrical and chemical stuff produces a compelling sense of being, then can a rock produce a sense of being? there is no "pool" of you's and i's beforehand, so why did i get to be this animal? even if there is no pool, what are the odds that of the billions and billions of animals that will live in the universe, i got chosen from a pool of i's which doesn't exist to be this one? it just arises from the body you say, well maybe when i die i'll get to be another animal, i won't remember this one but it will be "me", "i" will have the undeniable experience of being an illusory witness to a collection of highly organised matter (until it becomes disorganised)

how can it ever make logical sense? it's like you get further from the truth when you try to apply logic, but like it or not you can't deny that you exist. i find it simplifies things a bitif there is only one i, which either means i am you, or you are just a drone animal with no actual consciousness, but there's nothing special about this body so i am you, but you and i are busy being me and you and i don't even notice what i'm doing because i'm to caught up in being me to experience myself being you.

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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but physics is still emerging..............infinite amounts we don't know.....................................

It is, and it isn't. The experiments done at the Large Hadron Collider over the last couple years have mostly just served to confirm the validity of what was already the standard accepted model of physics, which mostly hasn't changed much for quite some years now.

Not to say that we know everything, but I would posit that we know enough to know that what we don't know isn't that quantum mechanics is proof of an afterlife.

EDIT: but I'm not a doctor or anything. Just a plant-nerd with simultaneously too much and not enough time on his hands.

Edited by gtarman
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gtarman is simultaneously idle and busy, until you open this box to see if the deadly poison has been triggered by randomly timed radioactive decay. if the poison was triggered, you and gtarman have now both collapsed your superposition and are idle also the box had a cat in it kind of a cruel experiment couldn't they use a plant and some plant poison so it doesn't kill any cats or gtarman sometimes when you are just stating an example you don'ot necessarily think it through because it's just an example but decades on we remember schrodinger as a heartless cat killer when in fact he read the vedas so may well have refrained from harming animals did you know schrodinger had an enduring personal belief in some kind of universal mind which he may have based on brahma unlike my short-lived and quickly forgotten shunning of discrete sentences

it's a bit of a cliche "seperation is illusion" but i don't reckon awareness is the illusion, i think the confinement to a single region (you the human) is the illusion, i just find it (experiencing myself as one of my components) more palatable than just finding myself existing as an animal despite me being a compelling illusion.

i think 'consciousness arises from your body' is a very reasonable belief but it doesn't satisfy my curiosity. i remember contemplating "i" when i was maybe 5, 6 or 7 and i admit i contemplated an afterlife and didn't want to die, but like dreamwalker i wasn't fully comfortable with the idea of living on (what kind of life?) because i imagined weird things like my family and i becoming these kind of nasty sci fi dudes floating around in the darker parts of our solar system or in some gas clouds, which was just how i imagined it when i wasn't allowing myself the luxury of some G-rated eternal paradise if you worship the correct imposter

(protip, one of the imposters actually is god, it's choose-the-right-god lottery folks, the prize for winning is that you get to hang out in the only good afterlife, with god and the other lottery winners)

anyway, it's weird, selfhood is weird, even (especially!) at that young age self riased a lot of questions. it's impalpable, too weird for me to accept an explanation that leaves me with so many questions.

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as-is-below-so-is-above.jpg

no wonder some great scientists were into it. the ancients didn't have our ability to rigorously describe anything and everything that inhabits the same layer of reality where tape-measures live, maybe without science in it's current optimised form they found it easier to contemplate those mysteries which may never be inside the scope of science.

ask yourself what you are first of all, because if YOU = ONE HUMAN ANIMAL you won't get to experience any validation over correctly judging yourself to be dust, you'll be dead and correct at the exact same moment and the dead do not self-contratulate on account of having ceased to exist if they ever did exist in the first place.

maybe you knew all along that quantum was a technical sounding umbrella term for all the hippie shit you can imagine, like quantum afterlife, or quantum mechanics (uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics: you can't trust a mechanic without first giving him a chance to rip you off). if you find that your awareness continues and remembers being a human, you've gotta say 'okay, i'm not just a human

what

the fuck

am i?

Edited by ThunderIdeal
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the article is a waste of three minutes so read up on biocentrism here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biocentrism_%28cosmology%29

it's a somewhat respectable theory that attempts to build on quantum theory with biology and make biology central in our pursuit of understanding. the major criticism is that it's currently untestable but the author says future experiments in super position could confirm or deny his ideas.

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this was the top post from the article

I agree with Dr. Lanza 100%. The human brain is a poor filter for true reality (if one exists). How many alkaloids can change the human perception of our surroundings. How many anesthetics erase our total perception of time. If time does not exist, you can throw frequency, distance and most physics out the window.

I would not go as far to agree with him 100% maybe we are all on a perfect celestial trajectory constantly approaching infinity our souls
are a infinite source of energy but has nothing to do with electricity .
I love reading your post's Thunder

what

the fuck

am i?

+1 Edited by Bigred

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thanks, your post introduces an interesting idea to me... constantly approaching infinity. never though of it that way but i bet somebody somewhere has written a chapter on it.

i'll ask ballzac to us some scraps about observers, and time.

i'd concede that time and space are illusory dimensions before conceding that my awareness is a byproduct. maybe they both are, i try not to underestimate illusion, or things that are just mad sneaky (ever tried following a tiny tiny bug, or pulling a tiny peice of hair out of your mouth, and it's almost beyond your means in a way that seems magical). it seems likely that things are sneaking right past our instruments, maybe in those "tightly bundled" dimensions, or disguised by advanced technology/adaptations.

if there is no fundamental form of awareness, other than what a lifeform produces through the arrangement of its spacedust, not to collapse reality towards more favourable outcomes or provide any universal requirement, but simply as a (by)product of it's brain or whatver, that's actually amazing, creating an additional quality like that by combing the ordinary stuff in the right way. perhaps when it arises it's the most novel thing so far (assuming it doesn't happen before solar systems, galaxies, black holes and living systems) and begs the question what novelties are yet to come?

some physicists have an issue with lanza's description of time so i dunno, i do like the idea of a super positioned young universe which gradually collapses in the direction of life/consciousness/profit or whatever purpose the universe seeks or is programmed towards, but does life/consciousness have effects like this or is that just what the wishful thinkers take from quantum theory.

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i'll ask ballzac to us some scraps about observers, and time.

Well, as a lot of people have suggested already, I think this is just another case of someone using ideas from quantum mechanics to try to validate their conjecture. There is nothing about the double slit experiment that in any way proves anything about the nature of consciousness. It does seem that observation is intrinsically linked to the behaviour of what is being observed, but this doesn't have any bearing on whether consciousness creates the universe or whether the universe creates consciusness.

 

(The double-slit experiment) demonstrates...that behaviour of the particle changes based on a person's perception and consciousness.

Not really, it demonstrates that there is no way to measure the location of a particle without disturbing its momentum and causing the mutual coherence of the waves from each slit to be lost. Anything beyond that is conjecture. I could just as easily say the experiment proves there is an invisible turtle called Bob who changes waves to particles every time someone tries to measure the location of the particles in the two slit experiment, but until I come up with some testable prediction that would validate this hypothesis, it is as much conjecture as the claims Lanza is making.

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What does it matter? My puny intelligence cannot ever comprehend the complexities of our earthly existence. Why am I here?...... fuck knows. Is it all an illusion?..........fuck knows. If it is an illusion I guess it matters even less. If an illusion is too much for me to comprehend, is the 'truth', 'reality', 'existence' even further from my reach? I don't know and I don't care.

I realise? that it is the 'human' condition to try to understand, to know the meaning of life, but as I will never know these things, the need to know is not important and I just don't care.

The natural world (the universe) is enough for me to concern myself with whether it is an illusion or not. The concept of nature continually striving for total balance and observing the dynamics of that are more than enough to keep me occupied.

I hope there is an 'afterlife' when my 'spirit' lives on......but if there isn't, then it won't matter and I won't care.

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why does it come straight back to whether there is an afterlife...

i must warn that quantum theory is the go-to-guy for anyone wishing to make it seem that their views are supported by hard science.

i don't understand what an 'observer' is, and whether it has anything to do with consciousness. i think i heard that ordinary matter can collapse superpositions, simply when one of several possibilities actually eventuates, eg two particles impact instead of missing. without knowing the full picture (the basics) i couldn't justify believing anybody who says things like 'consciousness creates the universe, we know because of quantum physics', or whatever the claim may be.

i've had ideas about reality moulding itself to suit life (rather than infinite different realities) in a way that seems to defy the direction of time (universe appears to have been destined to be very suitable for life as we know it, but actually took queues from it's own possible futures). again it's a dead end without a grasp of quantum physics.

edit: i think it's in the right section. the news section is supposed to contain important news for our community specifically, without it all getting flooded off the first page by regular news.

Yep yep yep. It frustrates me so much when I hear people make wild conjectures and then flimsily try and support it with Quantum Physics. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (obviously not a physicist, again just a plant nerd with an interest in physics) but my understanding is that when Physicists say observation they actually mean -measurement- and to measure something you usually have to interact with it in some way. I don't think they mean that the act of being observed by a conscious mind changes reality (as if the electricity, neurons and neurotransmitters that are our consciousness magically influence the particles and waves outside of it). It's kind of like how the word theory has a slightly different (but the distinction is crucially important) meaning in the scientific community - so does observation.

Again, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - it's not gospel, just my impression.

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I sense that there are so many, many levels of experience that go so far beyond the abilities of our amazing yet fragile minds to comprehend. I mean just trying to comprehend the vastness of the micro and macro spectrums of reality throughout and within the universe on a simple linear scale, trying to conceive of a beginning and how it began if there was nothing there before so what started it, with my little ole human brain, often has me standing on the brakes of mental deliberation let alone attempting to go any deeper than that on a simple diet of rice and beans. I suspect perhaps there is no alpha omega paradigm in the grand scheme of things but is part of this game we play called reality or conditions imposed on our psyche via material realm constraints which we further try to impose on our perceptions...... Ah the words all just sound so lame trying to make a lucid point on such an intangible subject but it is fun trying :wacko:

I can't provide factual evidence and proof but rather I intuitively know that there is certainly something beyond the veil of corporeal mass solidity. I have no scientific back ground or credentials either other than some high school science classes but that doesn't mean we cannot postulate on our insights. I suspect there is possibly more freedom for conjecture without it.

Anyway... the more I think on it the more my heart swells and my mind concurs with yes, yes, yes, there is something beyond and we will be very pleasantly surprised. For now I shall just enjoy the marvels of modern day corporeal mass solidity and everything it has to offer. :)

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I remember mentioning to a few people an acid trip where I experienced (i.e. got caught) in a loop, which at the time was quite heavy, but later revealed to me a bit about the nature of time; in that it isn't a linear phenomena as our sense perceptions and science lead us to believe.

In fact I was left with the distinct impression that it is in fact circular (if that makes sense) and infinite, and that there are different levels/layers of the concept we know as time. (Insert link to alternate dimensions/realities here)

As far as an afterlife, I do put stock in the beforelife idea someone earlier referred to, and further than that, the idea that we don't cease to exist, rather we translate from one form to another, as the wave is still the water, but when it breaks it returns to the water but in a different energetic form. I have just read a book by Thich Nhat Hanh title 'The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching', and, whilst not being Buddhist, it was quite provoking for me in the sense that it relates the idea that the observer and the observed are co-dependent, in that one cannot exist without the other. Therefore I am everything and everything is me.

I like this paradigm because I feel it can help alleviate the separation our global western culture encourages, namely that we divorce ourselves from everything around us in the name of individuality and consumerism, and points us towards a, in my mind anyway, far more accurate depiction of a total reality in which all things are interrelated. I am nature, therefore without nature I cannot exist either. Thus why would I fuck up nature, because by doing so I fuck myself and everyone I love up too...

These types of threads are why I love being apart of all this. Keep up the thinking peeps :wink:

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I had an experience in my late teens that changed me completely, I had 420 volts go through me and I felt what can only be described as "Myself" about 30/40 cm above my body, I could call it a Near Death Experience, or an Out Of Body Experience, but whatever it was it started me on a search for Knowledge (Gnosis) of what (or who) we really are.

Our physical bodies are just that, a carbon based form we create to experience life in a three dimensional perceived reality,We are the Observer of Life,and we are taught (brainwashed) from an early age to fear, with death being the biggest fear of all.

This is how the churches and politicians keep control over the unthinking population.

I believe that Death is just a transformation to another state of being, and therefore now refer to myself as a "Born Again "Reincarnationist" :wink:

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