bio Posted October 11, 2015 hello. can alkaloids be obtained from pyrolysis / dry distillation? could it better / easier than a STB or A/B extract? having seen the way folks make birch bark tar, struck me perhaps the same could be done with acacia, and refining a crude extract. does anyone one if this is feesable, worthwhile, possible etc ;) thankyou. ps im not a chemist ;) Cheers! ps: murika ... vote Basiago 2016 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alice Posted October 13, 2015 Generally speaking, you may be able to get a miniscule amount of alkaloids out if they are in free base form, but most is going to be trapped in the cellular structure of the plant material and unlikely to volatise very well, unless you burn it in which case you'll get all sorts of oily combustion product shit ("tar") condensing and contaminating the tiny amount of desired compound that may come out. Much easier and more efficient to do a a/b extraction for protonatable amine-type alkaloids or a steam distillation or solvent extraction for essential oils etc. That solvent, whether water or organic, helps pull soluble compounds out of the plant material and into solution. Solvent extraction is quite efficient if you choose your solvent and processing conditions well. For example, just think how well a solvent such as hot water extracts caffeine from tea or coffee. Sure it pulls some tannins and stuff too, but it leaves 99+% of the depleted plant material behind. That's a pretty efficient extraction. I don't see your example working very well, but It's good to think outside the box. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bio Posted October 13, 2015 thankyou very much for the comprehensive answer, Alice.Much appreciated. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pat Uri Posted October 13, 2015 P's Dog 4 Pat Uri - thank you so much Alice you sexy chemist! What I said was a bit blunt. Apologies bio. Alice is so beautiful and very accurate like all chemists. To save you the equipment for destructive distillation, the alkaloidal loss and the terrible clean ups - roll it up into a cigarette and smoke it, as that is the same thing. Dig? Perhaps you should examine steam distillation. Pyrolysis is using the sledge hammer to crack the nut. Peace to you bio. Respect and love to you Alice. P's Dog ends. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bio Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) ha! cheers Pat Uri ;) equipment would have just be a metal tin .... go look at how bush folks make birch bark tar ~ its awesome. on the other hand, I'd wondered if the black goop would contain the dmt smell. how nice would a black dmt soap be ;) ... but I digress. god bless the chemists ^_^ cheers! Edited October 15, 2015 by bio 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pat Uri Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Black DMT soap = what a wonderful idea. I take it you are thinking about how DMT is easier to come by than Indole to use as a perfume base to take away that sicky, cattle smell some soaps can have. Rose and jasmine as mid and top notes. Yep! and soaps have always be used as a way of taking up plant extracts = insecticidal nicotine soap is one of the most effective ways to use it on plants. Certainly caffeine soap has been becoming commercially successful. Not to mention soaps are legal GHB possession. But an idea I always thought would appeal to the macho alpha male market, you know the ones who think toiletries are for "girls" but sneak a little conditioner on the sly, use mum's deodorant, etc. by casting black soap in the shape of knuckle dusters. Legal, because they are useless as knuckle dusters, just a novelty, but still give that bad boy tuff guy rebel feel...pathetic...what ya reckon? If you can use the idea, I'll give to you for a beer = XXXX bitter of course because I'm such a man. Solid bro! PhaemonsDog PS - and if the soap didn't actually make bubbles you'd see them anyway. Edited October 15, 2015 by Pat Uri 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites