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poor vual + me gave him a bashing only because he planted an obvious plant front yard. simply you just cant do that these days. the insinuation it was africans is prolly right and racial motivations against him are unwarrented. simply his problem is he was too trusting. sure he has amazon plants and exotics in his front yard but from someone ie myself who likes to forget about ethnos for months and years at a time i can say with certainty that 99999 out of 100000 people really couldnt ID or give a rats ass about mainstream ethnos, because we are absorbed in it here doesnt mean average larry is too. that is why i prsonally couldnt give a toss about future legislation regarding our said plants........simply its unreallistic and not able to be law abided.

really nobody cares...thats the simple fact. yet khat is an exception and will bring down the owner. be careful. you may not think its a biggy but other people from other cultures who need the shit more than you because they dont have some pretty boy university network do.

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To say it's vual's fault and don't blame the thief because it was planted in the front yard is bullshit.. it is the fault of whoever stole it!

Also, Khat is hardly a "need" so it's not like the thief is stealing because he needs it more than vual, he took it because he's a thief!

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I'm not a boy and I dropped out of school when I was 14 and became homeless.. so not really a "uni boy," whatever that is?

But what does your comment have to do with the thief being to blame, not the victim of theft?

By that reasoning a woman wearing slutty clothing is to blame if she gets raped, not the rapist, and if you walk around in nice clothes, you are to blame if you get mugged.

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nobody said anthing about raping dude dont get so emotional, however if you dangle a carrot in front of a horse the the horse will try eat it, moralistically i wish we lived in a perfect world too where mr goat doesnt like to eat the khat planted in the front of your yard but moral stuff sometimes only exists in childrens books, if you dont want your precious plants stolen then unfortunately im a fucking carrot and your the horses mouth and the uni boy was obviously a steriotypical generalisation much like the way we marginalise africans per se. i thought you would have seen that one but maybe that was a bit complicated for ya.

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Also, Khat is hardly a "need" so it's not like the thief is stealing because he needs it more than vual, he took it because he's a thief!

 

It could be argued that it is a need. The use of Khat is a very big part of the cultural identity of those countries. Living in Australia it becomes harder to maintain a unique cultural identity (besides all being labeled as Africans) and khat provides one way of ensuring that identity is maintained.

I am not saying the theft was justified but it may in fact be true that whoever took it really did need it more than vual.

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Where can I tap into this pretty boy university network?

santiago, horses and babies don't have the same judgement as a fully grown man. A human can judge what is right and wrong and then decide their action based on the consequences, your examples so far are flawed. Even the teenage girl in stockings getting perved on, as it's look but don't touch.

I'd blame vual 20% for putting the plants in his front yard, 80% to the thief. To call him a dipshit because he had one of many plants stolen over a 7 year period is pigheaded and ignorant.

Personally i'd encourage vual to plant more in his front yard, consider it a community service to supply needy people with khat :P

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This has turned into a real moralistic debate hasn't it.

How do you express dislike/distrust for a group identified by by their race in a politically correct society without appearing racist ?

I don't consider myself racist but if a group of people from one racial background has track record of theft then I reserve the right not to trust them based on appearance.

Africans many times come from countries embroiled in civil war or they are dominated by warlords etc so possession from their perspective is a fleeting thing, you just can't be too possessive of material things in those nations. Even life can be taken away at any time so the psyche of those people has been programmed by generations of suffering and loss. It's hard to make long term plans if you don't know if you will still be alive tomorrow.

I suppose from that perspective the theft of a plant must seem very trivial, so maybe they just don't get it, maybe that's behind the theft and the lack of desire to cultivate the plant for themselves ? It's not like a group of them with machetes and machine guns is kicking doors in, killing all the males and raping all the women and girls and claiming them for themselves.

I question the wisdom of bringing people from war torn countries into Australia, it's good to help but it also creates many social problems as others have outlined.

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I suppose from that perspective the theft of a plant must seem very trivial, so maybe they just don't get it, maybe that's behind the theft and the lack of desire to cultivate the plant for themselves ? It's not like a group of them with machetes and machine guns is kicking doors in, killing all the males and raping all the women and girls and claiming them for themselves.

I question the wisdom of bringing people from war torn countries into Australia, it's good to help but it also creates many social problems as others have outlined.

 

From the sounds of their taking the soil and entire root system, they actually wish the plant to flourish and probably further cultivate. Maybe that one bush could help them feel far more at home in this foreign landscape with it's looks/smell/content? If I relocated to a foreign country I'd try like hell to have at least a couple of Aussie natives in my surroundings.

As for the war torn refugees; I think changing our elitist 1st world attitudes of ingratitude at having been lucky enough to be born into this wonderful country would also go a long way toward making the assimilation a lot easier on both our sides :)

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this thread is getting serious...

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Yup. Maybe time to pack it in before the faeces hit the fan?

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What the bet it was actually some geeky white guy who saw the plant on erowid and wanted one? :P

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What the bet it was actually some geeky white guy who saw the plant on erowid and wanted one? :P

 

Ya never know!!

I remember when i used to be on erowid before i knew what anything was

Chef

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yeah man me too lol^

i used to want to ask east africans i saw around dandenong if they knew where to get khat because i was really interested in trying it. but i didnt because i didnt want to come off as a wacko who thought all east africans were khat fiends. as for the whole immigrants/invaders (whites) discussion, we should all just listen to bill and ted:

Be excellent to each other!

post-1342-0-02439900-1326934740_thumb.jp

post-1342-0-02439900-1326934740_thumb.jpg

post-1342-0-02439900-1326934740_thumb.jpg

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You didn't see who stole your plant, yet have convinced yourself it was the Africans because you have heard on the internet they like khat. How can that not be racist?

Then you go stare down a couple teenager Africans walking to school or some shit, like some psychopath and have convinced yourself even more it must of been the africans because they were uncomfortable about having some white cunt look at them like they were criminals, who wanted to bury them in his front yard.

That's not only racist, it's disrespectful and weak!

Let me ask you something, do you ever get grown adult Africans walking past your house? Do you stare them down like that as well? Maybe you just need to grow some balls and actually ask them if they know anything about it. Fuck, if you felt like acting like a human being, you could even inform them where they can source there own. 

You fucked up! Then blame an entire race instead of yourself and go trying to start fights with a couple of kids! I don't even know what to say about that!

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nobody said anthing about raping dude dont get so emotional, however if you dangle a carrot in front of a horse the the horse will try eat it, moralistically i wish we lived in a perfect world too where mr goat doesnt like to eat the khat planted in the front of your yard but moral stuff sometimes only exists in childrens books, if you dont want your precious plants stolen then unfortunately im a fucking carrot and your the horses mouth

I'm not emotional at all, I'm being logical: I was making the simple point that if, as you claim, a victim of theft is to blame for not hiding their possessions from the thief, then by the same reasoning a victim of a rape is to blame for not covering themselves up and staying inside. It is exactly the same logic you are using, applied to another situation.

Some less emotional examples: if I leave my car parked out the front of my house, it's my fault if some punk steals it. If I walk through the city with nice clothes on and jewelry on, it's my fault if I get mugged.

Going by the reasoning you have been defending in this thread, it is the victim's fault and the thief/mugger/rapist has no choice in the matter, they are just like a dumb animal following their natural instincts.

Its like dressing your teenage daughter in fishnet stockings and not expecting dirty deevos to look, common sense prevails.

This kind of attitude disturbs me because whether you can see it or not it is very similar to saying that victims of rape are to blame because of they way they were dressed, and that rapists can't help themselves.. actually it is exactly the kind of reasoning that rapists themselves use—"she was asking for it because she was dressed like a slut"

So that's why I brought up the rape analogy.

and the uni boy was obviously a stereotypical generalisation much like the way we marginalise africans per se. i thought you would have seen that one but maybe that was a bit complicated for ya.

Yeah I must be dumb, because I still fail to see how whether I have been to uni or not is relevant to this discussion.

Thankfully I think we do live in a society with morals, and although there are a small percentage (african or not) of people who do wrong, the vast majority are not thieves, and have enough moral sense to know that it stealing that is wrong, not being stolen from.

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ok i was pertaining to prevention is better than a cure. yes you are right in some ways chilli that the thief is obviously the one breaking human morals and laws so yes they are in the wrong 100%.

but in that regard also if you leave the keys in the ignition of your car, at the front of your house....is that your fault or the thiefs?

i was at hungry jacks a few weeks ago and a mother walked in with her three teenage daughters of roughly 12-13ish. what i saw then disgusted me but also gave me insight into sexuality. the three teenage daughters were dressed in the most sluttiest clothes imaginable, you could almost say they looked like prostitutes.....because i was eating with my family in the corner i was able to see all the men, your talking 5-10 of various ages and social types all take the type of glances in a come hither kind of undressing having sex seedy look, to tell you the truth that disgusted me..............but you tell me who is to blame, the men bordering on paedophilia or the mother who actually allows her children to become the want of sexual attraction. its the same with the khat plant.............what happened there is the plant was stolen, so then moralistically is it vual who created this problem or the so called africans or is it both, then hence lets just say one of those daughters gets stolen, obviously its the person who commits the crime but if you ask me the fricken mother of those daughters needs to take a fucking good hard look at herself and how she created the problem in the first place.

lately there have been many reports in the news of joggers being mugged for ipods etc whilst running, kids being ripped off hi tech phones on train lines........what ever happened to the days of stuffing spare cash in your jocks and leaving a few 5ers in your wallet in case of a late night train mugging. instead you have all these drongos jogging at 10pm in thier latest gucci tracksuits flaunting wealth getting hit over the head with a brick only to wake up in hospital............proclaiming der what happened.

i am def not saying the victim of a crime is the one to blame but somehow they are also if that makes any kind of sense.

if there is anybody in this forum who thinks that it is a good idea to plant a khat tree in the front yard of a suburban australian house with medium to moderate pedestrian traffic levels then i will gladly and humbly eat my words.

now i knew the uni boy thing would create some angst but i will glady explain why i used it as an example. ok....earlier i think you chilli said in reply to need, that there is no need to khat...which is debatable. Need is a hard one to work out logically. Who is in more need of charity. The man with missing legs or the man with missing arms on the sidewalk begging in Asia. I cant or i wont go there as that is an ethical debate and im pretty fucked at ethics. now its obvious from the tone of all the talk above that mainsteam australians have a very very high level of suspicion and trust and acceptance of black african culture. unfortunately like it or not they are just like me and you, they like to experiment with recreational drugs. but if most of australian society wont even get to know who the hell they are and make friends with them and accept them wholeheartedly into our lives and communities then what hope do they have of scoring a bud or two down at the local bar. i would argue that your atypical university boy with his probable un civil warfare security bound ubringing with 600 facebook friends, 50 real life friends bound from connections including work, schooling, common interest groups like football and rugby and university and lives of privelage have drug networks that far exceed that of a strange looking new to the country african with no networks, no community trust, no family or friends compared to the uni boy example and so on and so on. therefore i would conclude in the ethical debate of need that this african person has a far greater need of a khat plant in some front yard than a uni boy.........and who put it there in the first place, vual did. i know thats opening an un-answerable can of worms but i woukld say that vual left the bloody keys in the ignition of his car.

but i certainly apologise to you vual for calling you a dipshit, in this neck of the woods us mates all call each other dickhead etc and unfortunately text is hard to communicate sarcasm and humour and i still think your one but in the nicest and most friendliest way witha smile on my face ;)

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 if I leave my car parked out the front of my house, it's my fault if some punk steals it. 

 

If it's locked and secure, of course it's not your fault, that's just bad luck. But if you leave it out there with the windows down and the keys in the ignition, then you only have your self to blame. But of course that in no way excuses the prick who stole it.

If I walk through the city with nice clothes on and jewelry on, it's my fault if I get mugged.

 

No, but if you walk though the city late at night wearing a ecko jacket, trying to look the shit, then it is entirely your fault if some young thugs roll ya for it. Since it was inevitable that it was going to happen in a situation like that. Again though, it in no way excuses the young thugs. 

So that's why I brought up the rape analogy.

 

I don't think anyones defending the offenders and of course bad shit does happen to people that simply did nothing wrong, all the time.

But come on, with that rape analogy. Just say a young girls partying in the middle of the night dressed like she's looking for a root and completely blind drunk, then wakes up in the morning at the train station having been raped. Seriously, as mean as it sounds, what did she expect?

But that doesn't mean the people who did it still don't deserve to go to jail and get gang raped themselves. It's just saying that there is a good chance she would have never ended up in that situation if she had of used her common sense.

Thankfully I think we do live in a society with morals, and although there are a small percentage (african or not) of people who do wrong, the vast majority are not thieves, and have enough moral sense to know that it stealing that is wrong, not being stolen from.

 

Thankfully, your probably right about that. But it don't change the fact that there are some bad people in the world, who can usually be avoided if people just use there common sense.

Again, just to make sure my opinion is clearly understood. I'm not excusing any criminal for the shit they do and I'm not saying any victim of crime deserved it or was asking for it. I'm simply pointing out that a lot of these situations can be avoided when people think before they act.

Peace

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if you leave it out there with the windows down and the keys in the ignition, then you only have your self to blame.

if you walk though the city late at night wearing a ecko jacket, trying to look the shit, then it is entirely your fault if some young thugs roll ya for it.

say a young girls partying in the middle of the night dressed like she's looking for a root and completely blind drunk, then wakes up in the morning at the train station having been raped. Seriously, as mean as it sounds, what did she expect?

I'm not saying any victim of crime deserved it or was asking for it.

 

It does kind of sound like that is what you are saying with your above comments.

I understand that it is not wise to do those things, but I think the blame for crime should lie with the perpetrator, not the victim.. I think it's a slippery slope to blame the victims of crime.

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i see truths to both points of view. it's nice being able to have discussions without turning into shit fights, win for the corroboree.

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Dude, you should probably read my post more carefully.

 I clearly stated that the victims of crime are not to blame. But it doesn't change the fact that a lot of these situations can be avoided if people think ahead. Even the police who are usually the ones responsible for cleaning up the mess from these situations and are dealing with this kind of shit on a daily bases are constantly telling us the same thing. Which is, be vigilant and think ahead and these situations can usually be avoided.

EDIT: Hope I didn't miss understand your post and not having a go at anyone, just very clearly pointing out that I'm not blaming the victims.

Peace

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Dude, you should probably read my post more carefully.

I clearly stated that the victims of crime are not to blame. But it doesn't change the fact that a lot of these situations can be avoided if people think ahead. Even the police who are usually the ones responsible for cleaning up the mess from these situations and are dealing with this kind of shit on a daily bases are constantly telling us the same thing. Which is, be vigilant and think ahead and these situations can usually be avoided.

EDIT: Hope I didn't miss understand your post and not having a go at anyone, just very clearly pointing out that I'm not blaming the victims.

Peace

 

Yeah I know you said that mate, I quoted the part where you said it. But I juxtaposed it with the places you clearly said they were to blame: "you only have your self to blame" "it is entirely your fault" and "what did she expect." That's what I meant.. you said you weren't blaming them, but it sounded like you were from your other comments in the same post.

I agree people should be wise and try and avoid putting themselves in dangerous situations. Maybe I am being idealistic but i see this as different from saying they are to blame if some arsehole does something bad to them. My little sister used to always go out jogging at night, thankfully nothing ever happened to her, but it seems heartless to say to someone who did the same thing and got abducted and raped that it was their fault, even partly.

Having said that, there are some situations where I think there is shared blame. For instance, there are women who get beaten by their husbands after verbally abusing them and belittling them in front of their bikie gang mates. After getting beaten they return to the husband and do the same thing again and again.. if it happened once and then they learned from it and walked away I would say it was not their fault, but if they stay with the guy and help to perpetuate the cycle then I think they share the responsibility for the (still inexcusable) physical abuse.

So, if vual leaves his plants out the front after this maybe he would be partly to blame if it kept happening and he never learned from it, but I think it's just harsh to say "don't blame the their it's your fault" when someone is telling a story of how they got robbed.

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No, your completely wrong! There is never shared blame when someone inflicts violence onto another. The one who inflicts the violent act is always to blame! Don't twist my words!

What I'm saying is there is no such thing as a greater right or wrong, like someone pointed out, there is no such thing as this little fairy tale world of yours. Bad shit happens to good people in this meaningless occurrence we know as life, but it can usually be avoided with foresight.

If I'm walking though the bush looking up at the trees instead of the ground, then get bitten by a snake, it doesn't make me a evil person for wanting to see the trees. But never the less, it wouldn't of fucking happend if I was looking at the ground.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Peace as usual

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Where can I tap into this pretty boy university network?

I'd blame vual 20% for putting the plants in his front yard, 80% to the thief. To call him a dipshit because he had one of many plants stolen over a 7 year period is pigheaded and ignorant.

Personally i'd encourage vual to plant more in his front yard, consider it a community service to supply needy people with khat :P

 

lol, i would be interested to know also hehe.

I agree 20% my fault i just lost touch with reality there for a while thought i could re trust human beings again, it was rather stupid.

Brilliant idea mate!

This has turned into a real moralistic debate hasn't it.

How do you express dislike/distrust for a group identified by by their race in a politically correct society without appearing racist ?

 

Seems that way, and nothing is wrong with a debate, its in degenerate thread so go hard.

So true, And in no way was i being racist a African is a African i didn't call them "Blacks" or "Nigger's".....

Now that would of been racist :P:crux:

From the sounds of their taking the soil and entire root system, they actually wish the plant to flourish and probably further cultivate. Maybe that one bush could help them feel far more at home in this foreign landscape with it's looks/smell/content?

 

Yes, so its all good in my opinion honestly I am glade to assist them really.

Just figured it would be a nice topic to discuss on a ethno forum :)

...cmon really who else can i tell.

Never expected it to blowup into a moral debate....

I should choose my words more carefully :devil:.

(always good when it happens livens the place up)

No, your completely wrong! There is never shared blame when someone inflicts violence onto another. The one who inflicts the violent act is always to blame! Don't twist my words!

What I'm saying is there is no such thing as a greater right or wrong, like someone pointed out, there is no such thing as this little fairy tale world of yours. Bad shit happens to good people in this meaningless occurrence we know as life, but it can usually be avoided with foresight.

If I'm walking though the bush looking up at the trees instead of the ground, then get bitten by a snake, it doesn't make me a evil person for wanting to see the trees. But never the less, it wouldn't of fucking happend if I was looking at the ground.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Peace as usual

 

If you really beleived that then why are you still here.. on earth??

If that was the case why am i not robbing a bank right now 0_o.....

and why isn't Lady GaGa in my dungeon??

Also you made a cute oxymoron..

"No, your completely wrong! There is never shared blame when someone inflicts violence onto another. The one who inflicts the violent act is always to blame! Don't twist my words!"

Then you go on to say....

"What I'm saying is there is no such thing as a greater right or wrong."

Also how can someone be "Completely wrong" when like you mention above there is no right or wrong :P

I can think of many examples where violence is nessecery if i was to live by the creed "there is no such thing as a greater right or wrong", all i need to do is trick myself into really believing its for the greater good.

so the answer to a "right or wrong" is a what we believe to be right or wrong on the inside?

Even ending a argument with the word peace is a oxymoron !!!

OXYMORONS everywhere!!! ^_^ :P :P

.....Just kidding !! i wanted to get in on the trolling.

What the bet it was actually some geeky white guy who saw the plant on erowid and wanted one? :P

 

Hahahahhahah touche ^_^ :wave-finger:

Trolls.jpg

-V

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You didn't see who stole your plant, yet have convinced yourself it was the Africans because you have heard on the internet they like khat. How can that not be racist?

Then you go stare down a couple teenager Africans walking to school or some shit, like some psychopath and have convinced yourself even more it must of been the africans because they were uncomfortable about having some white cunt look at them like they were criminals, who wanted to bury them in his front yard.

That's not only racist, it's disrespectful and weak!

Let me ask you something, do you ever get grown adult Africans walking past your house? Do you stare them down like that as well? Maybe you just need to grow some balls and actually ask them if they know anything about it. Fuck, if you felt like acting like a human being, you could even inform them where they can source there own.

You fucked up! Then blame an entire race instead of yourself and go trying to start fights with a couple of kids! I don't even know what to say about that!

 

Eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 0_o

Get angry much, it made my day hahahahhahaha??

You know you can simply edit dumb shit you type out and stick in a funny picture right??

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